[E6] What if PrC prereqs were largely waived

[awaken_D_M_golem]

hmm , see I could handle that ... but that's just me.
It's ~== to a middling Psion 5 with a 1/day Dominate.
Wiz 5s with Versatile or Clerics with DMM heighten
are better.  Then you've got the Thrall who can be
nerfed rather easily by a DM (as can Leadership).


Erudite 5 / Divine Mind 1 for magic mantle, and
StP and a Discipline, recharge and Dr#349 feats.
How big is the local Magic Mart?

Elocator 6 needs support to get that 6th level working.
Needs 5 ML somehow ; 5 ppoints some unusual way.
It's do-able but takes almost all the other decisions.
Does have it's own arms and armor though.

[Nunkuruji]

Psi-Dominate from Thrallherd would still not work, via the E6 clause that class lists stop at 3rd level.
Dominate as a 3rd is Thayan Slaver and Naga Overlord has the equivalent (Su) as Enslave.

Elocater 6 issue is solved by requiring a base class prereq for +1 existing class progression PrCs.
In any case, the DR Far Realm material opens up a (dangerous) Teleport option as a 3rd level spell.

Beholder Mage is... ok. Lifting race preqreqs, I probably will old off on.
In any case, there is Shadow Templar, Ur-Priest, Blighter and several other classes with higher level spell slots.
However, the spell lists still cap at 3rd.
In these few cases, the tradeoff is typically the higher spell slots vs. taking a PrC with good class features.
Metamagic needs to be limited to 1 per spell to prevent metamagic stacking getting out of hand.

[TiaC]

epic 6?

How bout these prestiges right here, they're pretty epic

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/prestigeClasses/intro.htm

Well, with BAB and saves at zero, they have some issues.

[RobbyPants]

Elocator 6 needs support to get that 6th level working.

Elocator 6 wouldn't have any manifester levels, as the class only advances existing manifesting. You'd need to enter in as ___ 1/Elocator 5.

[spacemonkey555]

epic 6?

How bout these prestiges right here, they're pretty epic

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/prestigeClasses/intro.htm

Well, with BAB and saves at zero, they have some issues.

It was more a joke than a serious idea, but 1 level dips would make it a campaign wrecker. Who needs 6 levels when you get a 150' radius mass charm dc 20+ at level 1?

[Nunkuruji]

High Proselytizer uses sling commoner, it's super effective!

[Cyrocloud]

Martial Adept 1/Deepstone Sentinel 5 would be pretty solid, you get some pretty solid battle field control, some stone dragon maneuvers, and a 1/encounter swift action 12d6 60 ft burst that also knocks down.

[awaken_D_M_golem]

Psi-Dominate from Thrallherd would still not work, via the E6 clause that class lists stop at 3rd level.
Dominate as a 3rd is Thayan Slaver and Naga Overlord has the equivalent (Su) as Enslave.

Yeah I get it r.a.i. and playing within the game boundaries , but:
"The cost of psionic dominate is reduced by the thrallherd’s level, to a minimum of 1 power point."

I suppose someone (who wanted to do the long leg work)
could cite the rai/raw Ardent main problem, and
claim the "spell" level of the power is reduced.
I'm not saying it's an open and shut case. 
I'm saying it's maybe a possibility via long argumentation.

DM could easily say If so then T.O. = nerfed.

[awaken_D_M_golem]

Elocator 6 needs support to get that 6th level working.

Elocator 6 wouldn't have any manifester levels, as the class only advances existing manifesting. You'd need to enter in as ___ 1/Elocator 5.

My thinking was take a [Host] feat and Prac Manifester feat.
That'd get the 5+ MLs.
Another way is take the [host] feat Telepathic Affinity that
has Detect Psionics , or Hidden Talent pick Detect Psi ;
and the Psychic Sight feat from Mind's Eye. (at the bottom)
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20070629a

[Childe]

Yeah I get it r.a.i. and playing within the game boundaries , but:
"The cost of psionic dominate is reduced by the thrallherd’s level, to a minimum of 1 power point."

You can't reduce the cost of a power if that power doesn't exist in the game; also, if it does exist in the game but not in a way you can access (such as it existing for monsters that normally use it but being removed from the powers list), it won't matter if you reduce the cost, because you can't pay the cost to use it anyway.

[Chemus]

Is Wizard, Cleric or Psion all that necessary if PrC's are being made almost fully available? The PrC's just about become Base classes in their own right anyway; the low-flavor options can just sit and cry . Just tack on a choice at the first level taken of any 'spellcasting advancing' class; 'Which eligible class is it advancing?' If a PrC advances Divine casting, one could choose Cleric, Druid, Spirit Shaman, Favored Soul, etc. For Arcane casting, Wizard, Sorcerer, Warlock, Beguiler, Dread Necromancer, Bard, etc. And for 'Any Spellcasting Class' the door's open. Same for Manifesting classes' PrC's.

This would make the Dual Threat classes perhaps too versatile, but perhaps not. They still have but one standard action per round. If this is the variant that uses Recharge magic, then just have all spell levels in one pool; general recharge spells would just cut off all spells of that level, and specific recharge spells would work as usual.

A weaker alternative to this is to give Adept/Magewright casting advancement to all these classes a la Nosomatic Chirurgeon (or whatever that Eberron PrC is that does this)

[Nunkuruji]

What ends up happening in most cases is that PrCs with their own spell lists become specialists in their own right, analogous to what Beguiler/Dread Necro is to Sorcerer. Additionally grabbing freebie higher spell slots to toss metamagic in.

The base classes are still necessary as an entry class to +1 level of advancement PrCs, as only a single PrC would be allowed. Dual Threat classes don't tend to have particularly powerful spellcasting related class features. Consider what a Wizard / War Mage 5 can do with a single damage spell action vs. a Wiz/Clr/Mystic Theurge. It is not as if one is the only sane choice, they each provide their own options.

In any case, I think I've concluded what I need to take care of in rules verbage. Regardless, my PCs understand the RAI.

[Maat Mons]

I just had an idea for a build using these house-rules.  Warlock 1 / binder 1 / hellfire warlock 3 / warlock +1.  Getting 9d6 damage at will seems pretty good for E6. 

[awaken_D_M_golem]

Fester 1 for Astral Construct / Constructor 5
... not sure which would be the best "1"
but it'd get that long lasting PrC 5 ability.
Divine Mind would "oddly" not be a good choice ... 


**


Any way to get Chameleon 2 going on an Erudite?
If yes , then Lite version of PsyRef looping, limited to 2s.

[Nunkuruji]

Warlock works ok there, and can swing Empower SLA on EB? However, pales in a Recharge Magic world.

Constructor is nice, with a recharge PP system, its reasonable to have a constant pet.

Divine Mind, well E6 PrC doesn't make bad base classes good, it can only sometimes make bad PrCs good.

PsyRef is still not on a any class list as a 3rd level power AFAIK, so no good.

-----------------------

The next thing I'm considering is, beyond a typical LotR example, what does an E6/PrC/Recharge/Tippyverse metropolis look like.

Considering a Sharn/Waterdeep equivalent
Pop: 200,000
1% 6th level NPCs PC Classes: 2000
99% 1st level NPC/commoners: 180,000
Create Food & Water Caster/Trap: Gets limited by Recharge Magic causing 24hr reset. At most CL6 20 fed/24hr/caster or device
Create Water: CL6 12 gallons / 30 minutes, 576 gallons / day, per caster or device
1st level npc wealth: 900
6th level npc wealth: 5600

Not enough casters or wealth to provide near limitless Trap food, but perhaps provide a reasonable amount of Trap water. Food scarcity still exists, upholding common power structures, farming land, etc.

[Cyrocloud]

I just had an idea for a build using these house-rules.  Warlock 1 / binder 1 / hellfire warlock 3 / warlock +1.  Getting 9d6 damage at will seems pretty good for E6.

Why not Warlock 1 / binder 1 / hellfire warlock 3 / blood line 1  for 11d6 damage. Probably take air elemental/genie for imp initiative or fey for +1 cha, or stone giant for point black shot

[Cyrocloud]

Full BaB 1/ Beast Heart Adept 5 would be really cool, +6 bab, a decent amount of HD, and hell you could get a CR 7 chimera as a companion and I don't know a hippogriff mount or a girallon, manticore, winter wolf or digester, your pretty set.  Hell grab wild cohort and you got a nice little army of things that are, well probably stronger than yourself.