Constructor or Malconvoker?

[LordBlades]

I'm trying to get a summoner build off ground for an upcoming character, and I'm a bit torn between either StP Erudite/Constructor or Wizard (or Archivist if we don't get any other divine caster)/Malconvoker?

Which one do you guys think is better at providing party frontline and why?

My main dilemma is something along the lines of: Can Astral Construct, with the limited (compared to SM) customization options keep up with  Summon Monster in terms of both raw power and utility?

[Mithril Leaf]

For party frontlining, you'd probably be better off with Astral Construct, as fairly early on you can make constructs better than those you should at your level by boosting manifester level. For general purpose, Malconvoker is a better deal, as it provides more options and a larger number of bodies. Generally, if you can be/emulate a kalshatar and have Hyperconscious, I'd go with Constructor, simply because it lets you make better constructs and a feat give them a fixed 10 minute duration. Malconvoker is a very strong choice for overall usage, especially if willing to get a bit cheesy with planar binding. Both are good choices, depends on what you want, more versitility or more raw damage.

[Rebel7284]

Summon Monster gives you a lot of flexibility with the spell-like abilities in the mid to late levels.  Astral Construct is more limited in that regard.

With that said, StP Erudite can cast summon monster too when it needs flexibility, and is, by its very nature, a more flexible caster in general...

If you have access to power link shards for augmenting to 3 times your manifester level 3 time a day, totally go for Constructor xD

[Endarire]

If you don't use the astral construct nerf from Complete Psionic, why even go Constructor in 3.5?

[Nanshork]

If you don't use the astral construct nerf from Complete Psionic, why even go Constructor in 3.5?

2 extra menu choices and the ability to pop out multiple with the same manifestation are quite useful.

[Unbeliever]

My personal preference is for Malconvoker.  I just like it more.  I also have never really gotten a chance to play one for more than a couple of sessions -- and they are kind of labor-intensive -- so that might explain my bias. 

My main dilemma is something along the lines of: Can Astral Construct, with the limited (compared to SM) customization options keep up with  Summon Monster in terms of both raw power and utility?

It sounds like you're leaning Constructor but are concerned about firepower.  Even if the Constructor is objectively weaker than the Malconvoker, unless the game is obscenely high-OP you'll be ultra-badass.  Especially if you use Spell to Power Erudite. 

[LordBlades]

It sounds like you're leaning Constructor but are concerned about firepower.  Even if the Constructor is objectively weaker than the Malconvoker, unless the game is obscenely high-OP you'll be ultra-badass.  Especially if you use Spell to Power Erudite.

Something like that. I never got to play psionics much and I want to try it out. Looks like I'll have to go archivist/malconvoker in the end as nobody else is willing to play a divine caster.

[Cyclone Joker]

Malconvoker is infinitely more powerful than the Constructor. It is an objective fact. That using the Malconvoker as it was designed to be used, abusing Planar Binding, requires the use of a very nice helmet. The constructor is powerful and useful, but nowhere near the stupidity of Malconvoker.

Why are you suggesting you need a divine caster?

[Unbeliever]

Malconvoker is infinitely more powerful than the Constructor. It is an objective fact. That using the Malconvoker as it was designed to be used, abusing Planar Binding, requires the use of a very nice helmet. The constructor is powerful and useful, but nowhere near the stupidity of Malconvoker.

Why are you suggesting you need a divine caster?

+1 to all of this.  Especially the bolded part.  You certainly don't need a healbot, we all know that.  So, play what you want.  It's a flexible, powerful concept.  You'll be holding back to avoid running roughshod over things most likely as it is.  And, if not, if you've got a few holes in your party, then that will balance out some of the firepower you're bringing to the table.  Sounds like win-win to me.  Enjoy psionics. 

[Mithril Leaf]

Also, you're a spell to power Erudite. That's basically like being a archivist at minus 4 levels for free.

[LordBlades]

Why are you suggesting you need a divine caster?

Not exactly need, but it certainly makes things easier in some fields. Not healing (anyone with a lesser vigor wand can handle that just fine) but stuff like ability damage/drain removal, not dying/raising dead(not sure you can get stuff like Delay Death, Last Breath or Revivify on an arcane spell list without Southern Magician/Alternate Spell Source shenanigans) , getting plane shift 4 levels early etc.

[Cyclone Joker]

Most of that stuff can be achieved with a Psion(Or Erudite), just as easily, and, from what it sounds like, you'd rather play one. I'd go for it. Remember, you can go Favored Disciple(Shaper, or whatever) and StP, as you do have two bonus feats at first level.

[Endarire]

I'm a fan of StP Erudite over Archivist.  More flexibility.  Ask your GM how readily you can add spells as powers, especially divine ones.  There are plenty of divine versions of arcane spells (and vice versa).

[TC X0 Lt 0X]

I prefer Constructor. I personally would probably not use Erudite for it do to it's limited Unique Powers per day and that you lose the ability to learn powers apart from the level progression once you go past Erudite lvs in Constructor, and that the ACF for Shapers at 5th level from Mind Eye is pretty damn nice, but this is probably only because I like to use PP regeneration loops and buffing hard with all the powers my Character knows.
Erudite would probably still be a bit more powerful though if you are not buffing yourself with multiple powers and more or less acting as a toolbox.

Malcovoker is a lot more versatile and powerful then Constructor overall though, a given with spell access which is superior pool then psionic powers, and that summon monster at higher levels has quite a bit to offer.

Constructor is a bit more fun IMO though, sense you have an easier time customizing your summons.
I personally  quite enjoyed my Constructor I played a few months back. She had a plant them going on and summoned plant monsters to fight for her. The Aesthetics were pretty fun, with her wrapped up in a flying constructs vines hovering over battlefields commanding legions of constructs.
That game had a lot of big scale naval battles too, and with a PP Loop and constructs that lasted minutes per level, she was quite effectively a one man army destroying ships left and right.
Heh, now I am reminded of our parties 'Wonder Balls' (Balls with a one time effect of a Rod  of Wonder, which were shot out of cannons).
Now that I also think about it, I also have a Malcovoker/Fiendbinder/Cosmic Descryer in the same world as well. Quite a fun fellow, though I have barely had a chance to use him as of yet (and really don't summon all that much with him either sense he is a total tweak).

Overchannel and probably Talented are musts to make your Constructs as big as possible, If you go that route. If you can use 3rd Party Hypercouncious, Dreamkeeper is also pretty solid addition to take before and after Constructor, giving your constructs Fast Healing, Concealment, and a few other benefits from the first few levels. Some of the 3.0 Mind Eye Articles have some feats that buff your Astral Constructs as well, so you might want to look into those.
This is of course assuming you go Constructor.


Damn, I wrote a Wall of Text.

[mechatarrasque]

Malconvoker is infinitely more powerful than the Constructor. It is an objective fact. That using the Malconvoker as it was designed to be used, abusing Planar Binding, requires the use of a very nice helmet. The constructor is powerful and useful, but nowhere near the stupidity of Malconvoker.

can you elaborate on basically this entire post please?

what makes malconvoker in itself so infinitely more powerful?  is it the planar binding?

and what "special helmet"  are you referring to?

thanks

[Nemo]

If you are going with Constructor, remember about that Magic of Incarnum feat which reduces cost of augumentation by essentia invested. It basically doubles your constructs power. Also, in Hyperconcious there is a way to make your Psicrystal "posses" construct body; manifest most powerful body you can and present your little fellow with a cool ride.

and what "special helmet"  are you referring to?

Bookproof for protection against book throwing, I guess.

[Endarire]

Astral Construct Power Armor