Author Topic: 3.5 Build Help Requested: A "survivor" Arcane Caster or Warlock.  (Read 29442 times)

Offline Mooncrow

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Re: 3.5 Build Help Requested: A "survivor" Arcane Caster or Warlock.
« Reply #40 on: August 23, 2012, 05:44:43 PM »
I need rogue or spellthief to qualify for spellwarp sniper, and spellthief seems to go nicely with the feat Master Spellthief for counting spellthief levels as arcane caster levels.

See if you can use the Trickster spellthief ACF from some Dragon Mag or other.  It gives you Bard casting progression, which is about 239587240587 times better than original spellthief.

Dragon 353, page 85

Offline AugustusGloop

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Re: 3.5 Build Help Requested: A "survivor" Arcane Caster or Warlock.
« Reply #41 on: August 23, 2012, 05:46:05 PM »
He was firm on no Dragon Mag.  No SRD even since it's not a physical book.  If it weren't for the option to reclaim the level as an arcane caster level, I'd just go with rogue.
Feat: Invisible Spell.  Cast invisible invisible stalker.  Cast invisible invisibility on the invisible invisible stalker.  Have an invisible invisible invisible invisible stalker.  Divide by 0.

Offline sirpercival

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Re: 3.5 Build Help Requested: A "survivor" Arcane Caster or Warlock.
« Reply #42 on: August 23, 2012, 05:49:02 PM »
No SRD even since it's not a physical book.

I never understood this.
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Offline xaotiq1

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Re: 3.5 Build Help Requested: A "survivor" Arcane Caster or Warlock.
« Reply #43 on: August 23, 2012, 05:52:38 PM »
Can you work in Practised Caster (CArc)? That would ease the loss of one caster level IIRC.

Also, I agree with SirP on the "no SRD" business. Meh, some people's kids.
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Offline Mooncrow

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Re: 3.5 Build Help Requested: A "survivor" Arcane Caster or Warlock.
« Reply #44 on: August 23, 2012, 05:55:09 PM »
Spellthief isn't a bad choice then; you will need 5 levels of wizard to qualify for the sniper though.  (unless you want to dance around with the shady Versatile Spellcaster tricks and their ilk)  I would say don't bother though.  Or, Spellthief 1/Wizard 3/Master Specialist 2/Spellwarp Sniper 1 would work as well. 

Offline AugustusGloop

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Re: 3.5 Build Help Requested: A "survivor" Arcane Caster or Warlock.
« Reply #45 on: August 23, 2012, 06:00:31 PM »
Ok, so the wording on master spellthief goes like this:



Your spellthief and arcane spellcaster levels also stack when determining your caster level for all arcane spells


I can take master spellthief as my 3rd level feat, does that mean that as a spellthief 1/wizard 4 I gain third level spells?  Or am I still behind on spells known, just casting spells as a 5th level wizard?
Feat: Invisible Spell.  Cast invisible invisible stalker.  Cast invisible invisibility on the invisible invisible stalker.  Have an invisible invisible invisible invisible stalker.  Divide by 0.

Offline liquid150

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Re: 3.5 Build Help Requested: A "survivor" Arcane Caster or Warlock.
« Reply #46 on: August 23, 2012, 06:08:40 PM »
I can take master spellthief as my 3rd level feat, does that mean that as a spellthief 1/wizard 4 I gain third level spells?  Or am I still behind on spells known, just casting spells as a 5th level wizard?
The second one.

Offline Mooncrow

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Re: 3.5 Build Help Requested: A "survivor" Arcane Caster or Warlock.
« Reply #47 on: August 23, 2012, 06:11:50 PM »
It only affects caster level (which is still absolutely worth getting) and not spell progression. 

Offline AugustusGloop

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Re: 3.5 Build Help Requested: A "survivor" Arcane Caster or Warlock.
« Reply #48 on: August 23, 2012, 06:17:41 PM »
Ok, so without some shenanigans, it'll have to be Spellthief1/Wizard5/Spellwarp1


Looks like Master Spellthief is going to be better than practiced spellcaster, and I'm not even going to try the "apply these effects in any order you choose oh look your caster level is 48!" thing.  I have to get point blank shot at 6th I think, to qualify for spellwarp.  What should my level 1 be?  Also, if I went with human and gained a bonus feat, what should that be?


That's plenty to make me happy.  Now I need to get to work doing the math, and figuring out feats and which order and oh god.
Feat: Invisible Spell.  Cast invisible invisible stalker.  Cast invisible invisibility on the invisible invisible stalker.  Have an invisible invisible invisible invisible stalker.  Divide by 0.

Offline Endarire

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Re: 3.5 Build Help Requested: A "survivor" Arcane Caster or Warlock.
« Reply #49 on: August 23, 2012, 06:51:17 PM »
The SRD is nice.  Anything in it is in a physical book.  (PHB1, DMG1, MM1, Unearthed Arcana for variants, Deities & Demigods for divine stuff, Monster Manual II for Razor Boar and Scorpionfolk, Epic Level Handbook for epic stuff, and Expanded Psionics Handbook for psionics)

Seriously consider taking the Aggressive trait (UA) for +2 initiative and 2 flaws from UA.  (I prefer Noncombatant and Murky-Eyed for you in this case.)  That will get you 2 extra feats.

Precise Shot and Improved Initiative help.

What are you getting for your Wizard5 ability?  Are you specializing?  If so, in what?

Offline AugustusGloop

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Re: 3.5 Build Help Requested: A "survivor" Arcane Caster or Warlock.
« Reply #50 on: August 23, 2012, 06:58:36 PM »
Weirdly, some of my posts are disappearing from this thread.  Here's what the DM said about flaws/traits:
Quote
Flaws.... eh, they're mostly just a free feat for no penalty.[/size]
[/size]Let me put it this way. If you have a flaw, expect me to stab you in it repeatedly. [/size]I will not allowed Murky-Eyed, Feeble, Noncombatant/Shaky, Pathetic or Inattentive. None of these hurt a character enough in my opinion.One flaw, two traits.



I am going to go Transmuter, but I'm seriously thinking about the domain variant.  What do you think?
Feat: Invisible Spell.  Cast invisible invisible stalker.  Cast invisible invisibility on the invisible invisible stalker.  Have an invisible invisible invisible invisible stalker.  Divide by 0.

Offline Endarire

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Re: 3.5 Build Help Requested: A "survivor" Arcane Caster or Warlock.
« Reply #51 on: August 23, 2012, 07:13:27 PM »
Going Elf for the Elf Wizard sub level + Domain Wizard (Transmutation) is like specializing, but without most the cost.

Go for it!

Offline AugustusGloop

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Re: 3.5 Build Help Requested: A "survivor" Arcane Caster or Warlock.
« Reply #52 on: August 23, 2012, 07:41:13 PM »
Oh god, major rule changes, slipped in by editing prior posts.  Try this one on:


This is important, and something I forgot to mention. Cure and Inflict spells - and those spells alone - will be available to arcane casters, but they are prepared at one level higher then a cleric normally prepares them. Furthermore, an arcane spellcaster isn't restricted by morals the same way a cleric is, and could potentially prepare both.
Feat: Invisible Spell.  Cast invisible invisible stalker.  Cast invisible invisibility on the invisible invisible stalker.  Have an invisible invisible invisible invisible stalker.  Divide by 0.

Offline sirpercival

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Re: 3.5 Build Help Requested: A "survivor" Arcane Caster or Warlock.
« Reply #53 on: August 23, 2012, 07:43:39 PM »
Oh god, major rule changes, slipped in by editing prior posts.  Try this one on:


This is important, and something I forgot to mention. Cure and Inflict spells - and those spells alone - will be available to arcane casters, but they are prepared at one level higher then a cleric normally prepares them. Furthermore, an arcane spellcaster isn't restricted by morals the same way a cleric is, and could potentially prepare both.

Meh.  That has no effect on you, really -- those spells are incredibly inefficient and crappy.
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Offline littha

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Re: 3.5 Build Help Requested: A "survivor" Arcane Caster or Warlock.
« Reply #54 on: August 23, 2012, 07:45:44 PM »
Oh god, major rule changes, slipped in by editing prior posts.  Try this one on:


This is important, and something I forgot to mention. Cure and Inflict spells - and those spells alone - will be available to arcane casters, but they are prepared at one level higher then a cleric normally prepares them. Furthermore, an arcane spellcaster isn't restricted by morals the same way a cleric is, and could potentially prepare both.

A cleric can cast both, Cure and Inflict are not aligned spells.

Offline awaken_D_M_golem

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Re: 3.5 Build Help Requested: A "survivor" Arcane Caster or Warlock.
« Reply #55 on: August 23, 2012, 08:11:55 PM »
Erudite Spell To Power is technically an Arcane "caster".
Magic Mantle(d) Erudite is technically Magic=Psi.
Ditch the psicrystal (sniff , I miss you mini-me).
Throw in the 3.0e Psi Hide Power metapsi, to ... hide the powers.
Self buffs and Cleric-y Arcane spells.
Recharge also works  :)

And remember, the Erudite is the "worst" (wink wink) full caster.
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« Last Edit: August 23, 2012, 08:15:41 PM by awaken_D_M_golem »
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Offline Endarire

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Re: 3.5 Build Help Requested: A "survivor" Arcane Caster or Warlock.
« Reply #56 on: August 23, 2012, 09:02:15 PM »
How does the cure situation affect Bards who already have cure spells on their list?

Offline AugustusGloop

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Re: 3.5 Build Help Requested: A "survivor" Arcane Caster or Warlock.
« Reply #57 on: August 23, 2012, 09:47:29 PM »
It probably doesn't affect them, unless there are cure spells they don't get in which case they could cast them as a spell 1 level higher.


Ok, here's my feat list.  What do you think?
lvl 1 Improved Initiative
lvl 2 (Bonus Feat per char creation rules)(Wiz lvl 1) Spell Mastery (no idea what I'll take, but in this situation WAY too good to skip)
lvl 3 Master Spellthief (bumps my arcane caster level up to my actual level)
lvl 6 (Sudden?) Extend Spell
lvl 6 (Elf Wiz Sub Lvl 5) Point Blank Shot (Qualifies me for Spellwarp)

If I take flaw, (the one flaw I'm allowed, and not one of the good ones) I would get either Invisible Spell (if allowed, perfect for this game, combined with my conceal spellcasting skill trick "What?  No, I didn't hear anything.  Someone died?") or maybe Uncanny Forethought.

Please let me know what you think.
« Last Edit: August 23, 2012, 09:49:48 PM by AugustusGloop »
Feat: Invisible Spell.  Cast invisible invisible stalker.  Cast invisible invisibility on the invisible invisible stalker.  Have an invisible invisible invisible invisible stalker.  Divide by 0.

Offline Endarire

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Re: 3.5 Build Help Requested: A "survivor" Arcane Caster or Warlock.
« Reply #58 on: August 24, 2012, 01:41:12 AM »
Spell Mastery is best with Uncanny Forethought.  Without UT, it's meh.  Unless The Inquisition plans to capture you instead of kill you (or worse), or you can start with a bunch of extra spells known, there's no great point to Spell Mastery.

Extend Spell is for improving the duration of long-lasting spells, so you can cast them today, rest, and get back your slots.  A Lesser Metamagic Rod of Extend Spell will do just fine most the time, thereby saving you a feat.  You could go with Eschew Material Components if you were very paranoid, but it's up to you.
« Last Edit: August 24, 2012, 01:43:45 AM by Endarire »

Offline Dkonen

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Re: 3.5 Build Help Requested: A "survivor" Arcane Caster or Warlock.
« Reply #59 on: August 24, 2012, 03:13:57 AM »
A warlock is actually great for a starting/just getting back into the groove player. I'm thinking about suggesting it to one of our new players. Dragonfire adept can also be nice, since a number of their invocations can be quite utilitarian and you still get breath weapon.

You say you're looking at buffing/debuffing, what about a dip into bard? The only reason I suggest it is Inspirational boost +Dragonfire Inspiration. Technically, you're not doing anything, you're just making everyone else better. Warlock gives you eldritch blast, or Dfire adept gives you a breath weapon, something you can rely on to do a decent amount of damage but not monopolize the table. Especially if you're using bard level dips for bonus energy damage via Dfire Inspiration.

Shame about the dragon magazines, there's a lot of fun in there, but if your DM is new or has had a bad table before I can understand. Dragon Magazines substantially open up options.

Spellwarp sniper is good, but ray spells mean ray deflection (spell compendium). Also effective with warlocks but not so much with adepts.

If arcane casters are already persecuted and your party has arcane casters, the thematic effects aren't going to be that big of a deal...hunted is hunted.

Transmuters can give decent buffs, make no mistake, but it sounds more like you're looking for a standard build that involves a low maintenance cost to ease you into things. 

With the build you're looking at, you'll have to check to see if master spellthief will be applicable, since you're not technically a caster with only one level of spellthief (I know the boards count it, but your DM is using house rules, so I'd check first)

As for spell mastery...it's good if you know your DM will take your spellbook away. That's about it. If so, take a trawl through the boards for first level spells... s/he is allowing you to pick your first spells, yes? If not, it may be a waste.

Extend spell on it's own is good, don't forget sudden is once per day. Not terribly useful to a large party, but good if you're only buffing the BSF to be your meatshield. One level augment isn't too bad, and I'm assuming since arcane casters are reviled, you're going to have issues getting magic items (like a rod).

I do hope you have a crafter, because this could get hairy without one-maybe I'm reading in too much. It's four am, and I'm tired. And I have beer.. mmmm.... beer.

I do still heartily recommend Dragonfire adept for the low maintenance, though if you're willing to jump in with a wizzy, go for it, they can be a blast for versatility. Just be careful, because those spells you get per level may be all you're seeing. A dose of collegiate wiz wouldn't hurt (bringing it to wiz1/spellthief1/wix 4/spellwarp whatever) to increase those.

Domain wiz is also good as is grey elf. I'm not sure on your DM though, so I can't say much more...
« Last Edit: August 24, 2012, 03:15:45 AM by Dkonen »
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