Author Topic: The Codex of War - A Ground-Up Rewrite of the Tome of Battle [FEEDBACK PLEASE!]  (Read 15413 times)

Offline Ziegander

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Re: The Codex of War - A Ground-Up Rewrite of the Tome of Battle
« Reply #20 on: September 08, 2012, 02:38:20 PM »
9th level maneuvers:

Inferno Blast, happy to see it isn't all fire damage.  Blown Away, very nice.  Not sure about balance, but it looks damn cool.

I wanted to avoid Inferno Blast being the weakest of the 9s, but perhaps I've buffed it a bit too much. Collateral damage is a problem with this version though, so it might be fine.

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Strike of Infinite Piety: damage, debuff, buff.  Individually the effects all seem meh for the level, but together they're probably balanced.

Don't forget the solid area of effect. That's more or less what I was going for though. A hodge-podge of decent effects combined for something pretty epic.

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Like I've said before, I'm not the best at judging for balance (or I don't trust myself to be, same effect in the end) so you should probably finagle some more feedback.

That I will definitely do.

In other news, I finished Diamond Mind's stance, maneuvers list, and full maneuvers descriptions earlier today, and there are a few more feats up over on the GitP thread than there were before. FEEDBACK PLEASE!

Offline Nanshork

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So needy.   :P

I see you've made some feat changes as well.

Alertness should say something like "Special: This feat also counts as Quick Draw for the purposes of prerequisites." so that it's compatible with things outside of the Codex.

Stand Still needs to reference how far back a flying creature flies due to the Checked condition (even if it is 0 feet).


Diamond Mind.

Stance:
My god that fraction is hard to read.  I think it says 1/5...
My gut says that extra actions seem strong, especially when the third teir lets you make an attack with a maneuver and have it not count as an AoO.


Maneuvers:
Least Timeslice (second level) doesn't list its discipline in the description.
Ruby Blade Cancel seems a little strong, but that could just be me.




Offline Ziegander

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Alertness should say something like "Special: This feat also counts as Quick Draw for the purposes of prerequisites." so that it's compatible with things outside of the Codex.

I might try to work on things like that after the Codex is complete, but my plan is to rewrite anything that required Quick Draw as prerequisite so that it now requires Alertness.

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Stand Still needs to reference how far back a flying creature flies due to the Checked condition (even if it is 0 feet).

Good point. It should probably be 5ft, but what do you think? I could actually have it push flying creatures back a distance based on their maneuverability (but that would be wordy and achieve little).

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Diamond Mind.

Stance:
My god that fraction is hard to read.  I think it says 1/5...

Agreed. Yes, it does say 1/5.

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My gut says that extra actions seem strong, especially when the third teir lets you make an attack with a maneuver and have it not count as an AoO.

Yeah, but extra actions is totally Diamond Mind's thing (in the revision anyway). I will probably change that clause that says the move/standard action is not an opportunity attack to read that the action does count as an opportunity attack.

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Maneuvers:
Least Timeslice (second level) doesn't list its discipline in the description.

My bad.

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Ruby Blade Cancel seems a little strong, but that could just be me.

It was supposed to include Will save to negate the ability score damage.

Offline Nanshork

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Alertness should say something like "Special: This feat also counts as Quick Draw for the purposes of prerequisites." so that it's compatible with things outside of the Codex.

I might try to work on things like that after the Codex is complete, but my plan is to rewrite anything that required Quick Draw as prerequisite so that it now requires Alertness.
Even prestige classes?   :p

I see where you're coming from though.

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Stand Still needs to reference how far back a flying creature flies due to the Checked condition (even if it is 0 feet).

Good point. It should probably be 5ft, but what do you think? I could actually have it push flying creatures back a distance based on their maneuverability (but that would be wordy and achieve little).
Hmm, I'm honestly not sure on this one.

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Diamond Mind.

Stance:
My god that fraction is hard to read.  I think it says 1/5...

Agreed. Yes, it does say 1/5.
Good to know.  Is there any way you can make it more legible?

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My gut says that extra actions seem strong, especially when the third teir lets you make an attack with a maneuver and have it not count as an AoO.

Yeah, but extra actions is totally Diamond Mind's thing (in the revision anyway). I will probably change that clause that says the move/standard action is not an opportunity attack to read that the action does count as an opportunity attack.
Making it count will probably be best IMO.

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Maneuvers:
Least Timeslice (second level) doesn't list its discipline in the description.

My bad.
No biggie.

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Ruby Blade Cancel seems a little strong, but that could just be me.

It was supposed to include Will save to negate the ability score damage.
That sounds much better.

Offline Ziegander

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Even prestige classes?   :p

I see where you're coming from though.

Uuugggh. Riiiight. I suppose for stuff like this, I'll add a note.

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Hmm, I'm honestly not sure on this one.

0ft. I meant 0ft.

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Good to know.  Is there any way you can make it more legible?

Maybe if I bold it or something? I still prefer the aesthetic of ⅕ over 1/5, but I'll see what I can do.

Offline Nanshork

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0 ft would probably be best, at least for now.

Maybe increase the font size of the fraction?

Offline Ziegander

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0 ft would probably be best, at least for now.

Maybe increase the font size of the fraction?

Yep. I've implemented both of those changes. The 1/5 fraction looks much better now (to me at least).

Offline Garryl

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It seems to me you have two nearly distinct things going on here. You've got some class and feat rewrites (and given the context, I'm not really sure what to compare them against), and also a rewrite of the ToB maneuver system. That makes things complex. My instinct is to evaluate them separately, in a sense.

Offline Ziegander

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It seems to me you have two nearly distinct things going on here. You've got some class and feat rewrites (and given the context, I'm not really sure what to compare them against), and also a rewrite of the ToB maneuver system. That makes things complex. My instinct is to evaluate them separately, in a sense.

I would not want you to evaluate them separately, but if that makes it easier for you, then go ahead. The Codex of War is meant to be much more than just a rewrite of the Tome of Battle, but is meant to do what I thought the Tome of Battle was going to do - be a full rewrite of D&D 3.5's combat mechanics (which includes fighting classes and feats for fighting characters).

Offline Nanshork

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The fraction looks much better.   :thumb

Offline Garryl

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Any reason for the nerf to Combat Reflexes?

Deadly Aim is confusing. First, the initiative order is not a numerical value. The initiative count that you act upon is numerical, however. Is that what you were referring to? Further, it's unclear whether or not the first Deadly Aim attack you make each round makes you go later by initiative.
   Mucking about with initiative like that isn't actually a penalty if you're already going last in the round. There isn't any lower limit to your initiative count, and it never rolls over into the next round, so once you're going after all your enemies going any later doesn't actually matter so the alleged penalty isn't actually a penalty.

Desert Wind
Stance 6: Variable flight speed can be a bit odd. For instance, sometime you might want to roll low (less than 15) to meet the minimum forward movement requirement with a 5 foot step.
Stance 8: Miss chances should be applied to attacks against you, not to you. Also, Blur just gives concealment, it isn't a distinct miss chance effect. Try referencing Blink instead. I'm not to keen on handing out virtual immunity to ranged attacks, even at 13th level.

Devoted Spirit
Recovery: 0 hp or fewer is redundant with 1/2 max hp or fewer (barring the hypothetical exception of creatures with negative maximum hit points, I suppose).
Stance 1: Note that you are your own ally, so this applies to you as well.
Stance 4: The part about the AoO coming before the action that provoked it is redundant with the definition of attacks of opportunity. Either that or it makes it weaker than normal AoOs (not sure which, need to reread the AoO rules). Since you're not interrupting the action, you can only prevent the action from being taken, not stop it from having any meaningful effect (such as disrupting concentration on a spell).

Diamond Mind
Recovery: If someone scries on you, does that count as an attack?
Stance 6: Expect a lot of Wizards to carry around awl pikes and spiked chains. Or to just get into lots of arguments with their familiars (who like to dance around their feet).

Offline Ziegander

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Any reason for the nerf to Combat Reflexes?

I know I can't be the only person ever to think that taking a single feat to potentially quintuple your attacks per round at 1st level doesn't seem right. So, I decided to change the rules on how opportunity attacks work, and how the Combat Reflexes feat specifically works. In return for the nerfs I allow characters to "full attack" a dude on a single opportunity if they have multiple attacks per round and a facilitating Dexterity bonus.

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Deadly Aim is scrapworthy.

Fixed that for you. I'll probably go back to merely following the Power Attack feat word for word.

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Desert Wind
Stance 6: Variable flight speed can be a bit odd. For instance, sometime you might want to roll low (less than 15) to meet the minimum forward movement requirement with a 5 foot step.

I don't think I follow you.

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Stance 8: Miss chances should be applied to attacks against you, not to you. Also, Blur just gives concealment, it isn't a distinct miss chance effect. Try referencing Blink instead.

Huh. I guess you're right, I'll switch the wording up.

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I'm not to keen on handing out virtual immunity to ranged attacks, even at 13th level.

It's kind of a lot of hoops to jump through to get there. Eight Desert Wind maneuvers (four feat slots down), one of which is at least 7th level, and you're still only immune to ranged attacks during rounds in which you moved 100ft or more.

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Devoted Spirit
Recovery: 0 hp or fewer is redundant with 1/2 max hp or fewer (barring the hypothetical exception of creatures with negative maximum hit points, I suppose).

The point is that, for example, if you reduce one creature to 1/2 hp in the encounter, then recover your maneuvers, and, later in the encounter, if you reduce the same creature to 0 or fewer, you can recover maneuvers again. Got a better way to word this?

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Stance 1: Note that you are your own ally, so this applies to you as well.

Will alter the wording.

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Stance 4: The part about the AoO coming before the action that provoked it is redundant with the definition of attacks of opportunity. Either that or it makes it weaker than normal AoOs (not sure which, need to reread the AoO rules). Since you're not interrupting the action, you can only prevent the action from being taken, not stop it from having any meaningful effect (such as disrupting concentration on a spell).

Ah, right. I'll have to remember all of this stuff when I revise the opportunity attack rules. My intention was more of leaving it as interrupting, but for other purposes have it considered to resolve before their action, so that if you kill them or make their action impossible with your AoO, then, yay.

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Diamond Mind
Recovery: If someone scries on you, does that count as an attack?

I realize that needs a better definition. I'll define "attack" somewhere elsewhere. Basically it should be anything requiring an attack roll or any effect that elicits a saving throw. So, yes, under that definition, if someone tries to cast Scrying on you, that counts (but only during the round that requires you to make a saving throw).

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Stance 6: Expect a lot of Wizards to carry around awl pikes and spiked chains. Or to just get into lots of arguments with their familiars (who like to dance around their feet).

It seems like Wizards (& other casters) have other interesting things to do with their feats than spend three of them on Diamond Mind training. Even still, without Combat Reflexes, that Wizard would get, at best, 1 extra spell per round. I'm not sure this is a real problem. EDIT: Oh, and also, you can't be in the Diamond Mind stance and wield a reach weapon like that, because you have to use an associated weapon. Once I rewrite the AoO rules, ranged weapons will be able to make opportunity attacks though, but even then, using a crossbow, you won't get ranged AoOs for movement unless a creature moves out of one of your range increments and into the next.
« Last Edit: September 08, 2012, 09:21:08 PM by Ziegander »

Offline Garryl

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Any reason for the nerf to Combat Reflexes?

I know I can't be the only person ever to think that taking a single feat to potentially quintuple your attacks per round at 1st level doesn't seem right. So, I decided to change the rules on how opportunity attacks work, and how the Combat Reflexes feat specifically works. In return for the nerfs I allow characters to "full attack" a dude on a single opportunity if they have multiple attacks per round and a facilitating Dexterity bonus.

To quintuple your attacks, you'd need enemies to provoke 9 AoOs and have a Dex of 26 (total 10 attacks: 1 standard + 1 AoO that everyone gets regardless, 8 bonus AoOs to quintuple it). If you set things up just right to be an AoO machine, you're looking at at most tripling your attacks over not having the feat, and that still requires circumstances set heavily in your favor. To get even a single extra attack through Combat Reflexes, you need two instances of enemy provocation in a single round, and that happens less often than you'd think in my experience. Improved Trip and Cleave are as good or better attack generators at low levels under a great many circumstances.
   I also worry about not being able to make AoOs while flat-footed, thus requiring the Awareness feat as well. The original Combat Reflexes had that, which gave it a benefit even if you had no Dex bonus, interestingly enough.

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Desert Wind
Stance 6: Variable flight speed can be a bit odd. For instance, sometime you might want to roll low (less than 15) to meet the minimum forward movement requirement with a 5 foot step.

I don't think I follow you.

Average maneuverability flight requires a minimum forward speed of half your flight speed to stay aloft. Rather than blowing a move action to hover, you might want to just take a (no action) 5 foot step, which meets the 1/2 speed requirement for 10 foot and lower fly speeds, as generated by a Tumble check result of 14 or less.

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I'm not to keen on handing out virtual immunity to ranged attacks, even at 13th level.

It's kind of a lot of hoops to jump through to get there. Eight Desert Wind maneuvers (four feat slots down), one of which is at least 7th level, and you're still only immune to ranged attacks during rounds in which you moved 100ft or more.

This is the stance for the style that has a lot of speed boosters, as Boosts, no less. Several of the strikes also grant movement as part of their effects. All of this is on top of a movement speed defined by a skill check, so you're probably working with 40 to 60 feet before movement speed bonuses (and as a fly speed, you can double it when descending). I have no doubt that if you care about it at all, you can easily make 100 feet or more per move action even without serious investment (that is, a 2-3 maneuvers of your 8+ known and some stock standard skill and speed boosts).

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Devoted Spirit
Recovery: 0 hp or fewer is redundant with 1/2 max hp or fewer (barring the hypothetical exception of creatures with negative maximum hit points, I suppose).

The point is that, for example, if you reduce one creature to 1/2 hp in the encounter, then recover your maneuvers, and, later in the encounter, if you reduce the same creature to 0 or fewer, you can recover maneuvers again. Got a better way to word this?

Wait, do you mean reducing a creature from ABOVE 1/2 hp to BELOW 1/2 hp (and the same with 0 hp)? Because all you wrote was reducing a creature to below 1/2 hp (not from anything), so essentially any damaging attack against a creature that ends with it below 1/2 hp would count (for example, reducing a creature from -3 hp to -10).

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Stance 4: The part about the AoO coming before the action that provoked it is redundant with the definition of attacks of opportunity. Either that or it makes it weaker than normal AoOs (not sure which, need to reread the AoO rules). Since you're not interrupting the action, you can only prevent the action from being taken, not stop it from having any meaningful effect (such as disrupting concentration on a spell).

Ah, right. I'll have to remember all of this stuff when I revise the opportunity attack rules. My intention was more of leaving it as interrupting, but for other purposes have it considered to resolve before their action, so that if you kill them or make their action impossible with your AoO, then, yay.

Causality is a harsh mistress. If your pre-emptive attack stops the action from being performed, does the action (which does not occur) still provoke the pre-emptive attack? (Or use actions, or consume daily uses, etc. and so on and so forth...)

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Stance 6: Expect a lot of Wizards to carry around awl pikes and spiked chains. Or to just get into lots of arguments with their familiars (who like to dance around their feet).

It seems like Wizards (& other casters) have other interesting things to do with their feats than spend three of them on Diamond Mind training. Even still, without Combat Reflexes, that Wizard would get, at best, 1 extra spell per round. I'm not sure this is a real problem. EDIT: Oh, and also, you can't be in the Diamond Mind stance and wield a reach weapon like that, because you have to use an associated weapon. Once I rewrite the AoO rules, ranged weapons will be able to make opportunity attacks though, but even then, using a crossbow, you won't get ranged AoOs for movement unless a creature moves out of one of your range increments and into the next.

I dunno, I'd love to spend 3 feats to break the action economy. 4 if I can shatter it (don't forget Combat Reflexes). Even without a reach weapon, you get one AoO for your familiar moving through a threatened space, and a second when it does something stupid with its standard action, like standing up from prone or drinking a potion or whatever.

Offline Ziegander

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To quintuple your attacks... smart math to counter my dumb math

Yep, you're right, but my point still remains, that it's awkward that you can take a feat that, at low levels, gives you many more attacks when it isn't your turn than you get when it is. With my change, you never get more attacks when it's not your turn than you do when it is your turn, BUT you can, if you want, blow all of them at once on a single provoked opportunity. So AoO builds get fewer of these extra attacks, but they see an ease of use upgrade.

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To get even a single extra attack through Combat Reflexes, you need two instances of enemy provocation in a single round, and that happens less often than you'd think in my experience. Improved Trip and Cleave are as good or better attack generators at low levels under a great many circumstances.

Yet, even those only grant a single extra attack. Which reminds me, I need to work on a way to make Cleave a better feat. It might be as simple as allowing a maneuver used in the initial attack that generated the Cleave to be replicated in the extra attack gained.

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I also worry about not being able to make AoOs while flat-footed, thus requiring the Awareness feat as well. The original Combat Reflexes had that, which gave it a benefit even if you had no Dex bonus, interestingly enough.

Yeah, I know, and I will look into it. For years, I didn't know that Combat Reflexes had that clause, no one in my group did, and Combat Reflexes still saw widespread use. But I'm actually going to try and playtest the Codex, unlike most of my work...

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Average maneuverability flight requires a minimum forward speed of half your flight speed to stay aloft. Rather than blowing a move action to hover, you might want to just take a (no action) 5 foot step, which meets the 1/2 speed requirement for 10 foot and lower fly speeds, as generated by a Tumble check result of 14 or less.

Okay, finally I see where you're coming from. I suppose that's just the price you pay for relying on the stance's fly speed. You don't get to make flying 5ft steps very often. I don't see a problem with this. If the flight speed isn't good enough for you, there's a lot of ways to get a superior fly speed. The Desert Wind stance isn't supposed to be the best flight you can get, not even close for the level.

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This is the stance for the style that has a lot of speed boosters, as Boosts, no less. Several of the strikes also grant movement as part of their effects. All of this is on top of a movement speed defined by a skill check, so you're probably working with 40 to 60 feet before movement speed bonuses (and as a fly speed, you can double it when descending). I have no doubt that if you care about it at all, you can easily make 100 feet or more per move action even without serious investment (that is, a 2-3 maneuvers of your 8+ known and some stock standard skill and speed boosts).

On paper, no, it isn't difficult to move 100ft every round, especially not so with the Boosts of the Desert Wind discipline. That's not the issue. The issue is, in game, how often is it going to be tactically sound practice for you to move 100ft. I honestly can't remember the last time I saw a PC move 100ft in one round in the middle of combat (unless it was Frightened/Panicked). I don't know if it's ever happened in a game I played in/DM'd. I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but I am saying that you have to jump through hoops to get immunity to ranged attacks.

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Wait, do you mean reducing a creature from ABOVE 1/2 hp to BELOW 1/2 hp (and the same with 0 hp)? Because all you wrote was reducing a creature to below 1/2 hp (not from anything), so essentially any damaging attack against a creature that ends with it below 1/2 hp would count (for example, reducing a creature from -3 hp to -10).

YES! You got it! Fixing the wording.

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Causality is a harsh mistress.

Harsh indeed. You give me much to mull over.

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I dunno, I'd love to spend 3 feats to break the action economy. 4 if I can shatter it (don't forget Combat Reflexes). Even without a reach weapon, you get one AoO for your familiar moving through a threatened space, and a second when it does something stupid with its standard action, like standing up from prone or drinking a potion or whatever.

The easy solution is to define "foe" or "opponent" as "hostile creature. (as defined by the Diplomacy rules)" Then if players want to have "hostile" minions hanging around the DM is well within their rights to call shenanigans. These creatures will takes risks to cause the PC harm. By that definition, it seems impossible for one to be something like a Familiar or Animal Companion or even just a Rat I Found In The Gutter. Once I define the term as such I'll need to use it in all places that it becomes necessary.

Anyway, three feats to break the action economy is much more than they typically need to spend, is kind of what I'm saying. They already have swift action spells, quicken spell, metamagic reducers that come built in with PrC levels, etc and so forth. I'm not sure 3 or 4 feats are so easily slotted into optimized Wizard builds to make them even more powerful. Heck, even if they are easy to slot in, it's just improving on something that's already immensely powerful. If a Wizard can take easy advantage of this, then it's only adding a small amount to the Wizard's total power, while adding quite a large amount to the Fighter/Barbarian/Paladin's total power.

In other news, I'm pretty sure I no longer like the Paladin having a half caster level, and am going to just give it a full caster level for crying out loud. In a perfect world, half-caster level, 3/4 caster level, and full caster level should fit right alongside half BAB, 3/4 BAB, and full BAB, but it just doesn't work that way. Sigh. Giving the Paladin a full caster level pulls it closer to Duskblade, which is where I want it, and it allows me to give it spells that actually mean something. Hopefully playtesting will help me tweak the issue to my liking.

Does anyone here have an opinion on the "missing Monk" issue that has come up a few times over at GitP? I am starting to agree that something like that is not well-represented by the Codex of War, but I'm not sure what to do about it. A full on Monk class seems... awkward. Maybe a Prestige Monk? Full divine spellcasting, medium BAB, lots of mysticism class features and some combat boosts that aren't thematically tied to combat skill? Requires 1st level divine spells, Improved Unarmed Strike (which will act like Superior Unarmed Strike), and Vow of Poverty?

Offline Garryl

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This is the stance for the style that has a lot of speed boosters, as Boosts, no less. Several of the strikes also grant movement as part of their effects. All of this is on top of a movement speed defined by a skill check, so you're probably working with 40 to 60 feet before movement speed bonuses (and as a fly speed, you can double it when descending). I have no doubt that if you care about it at all, you can easily make 100 feet or more per move action even without serious investment (that is, a 2-3 maneuvers of your 8+ known and some stock standard skill and speed boosts).

On paper, no, it isn't difficult to move 100ft every round, especially not so with the Boosts of the Desert Wind discipline. That's not the issue. The issue is, in game, how often is it going to be tactically sound practice for you to move 100ft. I honestly can't remember the last time I saw a PC move 100ft in one round in the middle of combat (unless it was Frightened/Panicked). I don't know if it's ever happened in a game I played in/DM'd. I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but I am saying that you have to jump through hoops to get immunity to ranged attacks.

A little troublesome when you charge, but on a regular move action you can just hop back and forth between two adjacent spaces 20 times. Or use one of the maneuvers in the style of constant movement that lets you move a lot. How hard can it be?

Offline Ziegander

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A little troublesome when you charge, but on a regular move action you can just hop back and forth between two adjacent spaces 20 times. Or use one of the maneuvers in the style of constant movement that lets you move a lot. How hard can it be?

Ah, right, I hadn't considered that kind of junk. Though maybe that's not actually that bad. That's the kind of thing the Flash does with regularity to make himself "immune to attack." I'll let it see playtesting as is, and get back to you.

Offline Risada

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Will post and edit some stuff here, as I finish reading the materials...

Paladin: that code hurts. Horribly. Is it really needed?

Attacks of Opportunity/Combat Reflexes: I don't know.... I can see where you are coming from with your worry over AoOs, but aren't you overthinking this? Also, how does your new feat interact with Robilar's Gambit or Karmic Strike?

More later...
« Last Edit: September 12, 2012, 11:17:48 AM by Risada »

Offline Bozwevial

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Feedback time.

Base attack bonus changes: Alright, I can get behind making that more meaningful. I think Legend does something along those lines too in that there's no such thing as a full attack action.

Barbarian: The modular rage is nice. Daily limit on rounds is less so, but with 4 plus your Constitution modifier plus your class level, you've probably got plenty. The rage powers might chew through that duration, though. I'm assuming exiting a rage is a free action as well?

The fast healing and regeneration values seem very small. Regeneration 1 I can see if all you want is to make the barbarian effectively unkillable by damage unless you do it with acid or negative/positive energy, but as far as fast healing goes, that barely seems like it'd be worth tracking. Is that just a formality so you can say "alright, it's been a few minutes since your last fight, you're all healed up"?

Fighter: Hey whoa, those are intermediate save progressions. Just being used for the fighter, or are you planning to incorporate these into something else?

Plethora of feats, weapon aptitudes, specialization, tactical genius, good good good.

Paladin: Eeesh, codes of conduct. Not my cup of tea, but that's a personal preference. I would tighten it up, though. Right now you've got this weird thing going on where you can't hit someone standing in grease, so you wait politely until they fall down, then beat them senseless.

It is nice to see them getting 5th level spells, though.

Does Knight's Challenge end if you don't attack the challenged creature every turn, or only on the turn you activate the ability? If it's the former, that won't sit well with Banishing Challenge.

New feats: Going to toss in my vote with everyone else that Combat Reflexes probably isn't as potent as all that. Definitely not enough to justify giving it iterative penalties, even if you cap it at a number of extra attacks based on your BAB.

Deep Impact and Graceful Strike are interesting. It sounds like you're trying to make weapon selection more meaningful.

Style Training is the key way to learn maneuvers, hmm? Definitely makes the fighter more desirable.

Fighting Styles: "To recover maneuvers of the Devoted Spirit fighting style a character must make an attack that reduces a creature of opposing alignment from more than ½ its maximum hit points to ½ or fewer or from more than 0 hit points or to 0 or fewer" should probably be "...or from more than 0 hit points to 0 or fewer."

Does Burning Blade only apply to one weapon, or would it apply to all weapons you touch? Also a question about Searing Blade, I guess.

Diamond Mind timeslicing? I approve, very much.

Flickering Flame works with teleports, I assume? Nice little ability to have.

Scorching Sirocco is very nice too. You've actually made me like Desert Wind again.

Am I correct in thinking that if you were TWFing, Avalanche of Blades would double those attacks as well?

Rising Phoenix's damage is worded oddly to me. Presumably you don't want to deal 10d6 damage per creature to each creature, but rather to choose which creatures take 10d6 damage, yes? Also, you could probably afford to boost your hit point total up a little more after revival - that window of -1 to -9 is narrow enough without worrying that a sneeze will drop you back down there.

Inferno Blast should probably specify that you don't damage yourself with it, unless you do.
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Offline Ziegander

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Will post and edit some stuff here, as I finish reading the materials...

Paladin: that code hurts. Horribly. Is it really needed?

Honestly, I think most players, novices to the game especially, expect and desire a Lawful Good Paladin with a code of conduct. It's much less restrictive and much less damning than the normal PHB Paladin's code. Is it needed? Not particularly, no, but I like it on this Paladin redesign.

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Attacks of Opportunity/Combat Reflexes: I don't know.... I can see where you are coming from with your worry over AoOs, but aren't you overthinking this? Also, how does your new feat interact with Robilar's Gambit or Karmic Strike?

Overthinking it in what way? Robilar's Gambit and other similar feats will all have to be rewritten though.

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More later...

Looking forward to it!

Offline Ziegander

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Base attack bonus changes: Alright, I can get behind making that more meaningful. I think Legend does something along those lines too in that there's no such thing as a full attack action.

Good, good.

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Barbarian: The modular rage is nice. Daily limit on rounds is less so, but with 4 plus your Constitution modifier plus your class level, you've probably got plenty. The rage powers might chew through that duration, though. I'm assuming exiting a rage is a free action as well?

You'll definitely have plenty of daily rounds to go through on just normal applications of Rage. For heavy Rage Power users, there will be the Extra Rage feat which is always handy. In fact, I might go so far as to let the feat treat you as having four more Barbarian levels for the purposes of Improved Rage and for rounds of rage, but that might be going overboard. Rage Powers will come in a variety of effects and start costing 3 rounds, going all the way up to 9 rounds for spectacularly powerful ones.

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The fast healing and regeneration values seem very small. Regeneration 1 I can see if all you want is to make the barbarian effectively unkillable by damage unless you do it with acid or negative/positive energy, but as far as fast healing goes, that barely seems like it'd be worth tracking. Is that just a formality so you can say "alright, it's been a few minutes since your last fight, you're all healed up"?

Exactly right, a formality. With Fast Healing, 10 minutes out of combat is 100 points of healing after all.

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Fighter: Hey whoa, those are intermediate save progressions. Just being used for the fighter, or are you planning to incorporate these into something else?

Just being used for the Fighter for the time being, though I think I'm going to edit in a Good Reflex save for Barbarians and a Good Will save for Paladins. I may also use Intermediate saves for a few monster classes.

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Plethora of feats, weapon aptitudes, specialization, tactical genius, good good good.

It was fairly simple and I rather like how it turned out.

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Paladin: Eeesh, codes of conduct. Not my cup of tea, but that's a personal preference. I would tighten it up, though. Right now you've got this weird thing going on where you can't hit someone standing in grease, so you wait politely until they fall down, then beat them senseless.

Yeah, it is something I probably need to work on a little more. She won't attack someone denied their Dexterity bonus though, so after a creature falls prone in Grease is it no longer flat-footed? That would be weird. The disconnect I think we're having is that a prone creature isn't necessarily any less dangerous or ready to defend itself than a creature standing up. A creature that is denied its Dexterity bonus certainly is though.

I think I will merely limit it to the Paladin does not receive circumstance bonuses to her attack rolls against enemies and will not deal lethal damage against enemies that are denied their Dex bonus or that are prone.

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It is nice to see them getting 5th level spells, though.

I'm trying to turn them into a Tier 3 Divine Duskblade.

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Does Knight's Challenge end if you don't attack the challenged creature every turn, or only on the turn you activate the ability? If it's the former, that won't sit well with Banishing Challenge.

Every turn. Good point. I'll have to amend Banishing Challenge.

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New feats: Going to toss in my vote with everyone else that Combat Reflexes probably isn't as potent as all that. Definitely not enough to justify giving it iterative penalties, even if you cap it at a number of extra attacks based on your BAB.

My reason for altering the way Combat Reflexes worked was never because it was too potent, but just that it seems highly strange for any feat to give you more attacks when it isn't your turn than you have when it is your turn. It may seem like a nerf, but when you can full attack a creature that provokes a single opportunity from you, I think it will feel much more enjoyable, user-friendly, and reasonable.

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Deep Impact and Graceful Strike are interesting. It sounds like you're trying to make weapon selection more meaningful.

That wasn't necessarily my intention, but I suppose it comes out that way. I'm planning on using a few weapon keywords and along with the Associated Weapons rule, hopefully, a character's choice of weaponry will become more interesting. Meaningful, I think is more an unintended consequence, but one that certainly is nice.

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Style Training is the key way to learn maneuvers, hmm? Definitely makes the fighter more desirable.

Right. Which was the major point. The Fighter was designed to be more bland than the Barbarian or Paladin for this reason. He is meant to fulfill the Warblade niche as "best" or "most-straightforward" maneuver-user.

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"To recover maneuvers of the Devoted Spirit fighting style a character must make an attack that reduces a creature of opposing alignment from more than ½ its maximum hit points to ½ or fewer or from more than 0 hit points or to 0 or fewer" should probably be "...or from more than 0 hit points to 0 or fewer."

Yes, good catch.

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Does Burning Blade only apply to one weapon, or would it apply to all weapons you touch? Also a question about Searing Blade, I guess.

Hmm... I would think that it should only apply to the weapon you touched upon initiating the boost.

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Diamond Mind timeslicing? I approve, very much.

I only worry that Diamond Mind is a bit too powerful, but many of its maneuvers have toned down raw power in exchange for quickness and utility. It may work out, but casters will be attracted to the discipline, even despite the steep cost of entry (which I suppose is decent balance in and of itself).

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Flickering Flame works with teleports, I assume? Nice little ability to have.

That was definitely my intention.

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Scorching Sirocco is very nice too. You've actually made me like Desert Wind again.

That was actually my primary design goal with Desert Wind. Reimagine it and power it up so that people would actually like it again. I'm very happy to hear you say that. It's not all fire damage, and even when it is fire damage, at least it deals pretty good fire damage with interesting rider effects.

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Am I correct in thinking that if you were TWFing, Avalanche of Blades would double those attacks as well?

Yes, because of the way the revised TWFing rules are worded, you can make an attack with one weapon whenever you make an attack with the other. Of course, your attacks will still suffer TWFing penalties as well.

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Rising Phoenix's damage is worded oddly to me. Presumably you don't want to deal 10d6 damage per creature to each creature, but rather to choose which creatures take 10d6 damage, yes? Also, you could probably afford to boost your hit point total up a little more after revival - that window of -1 to -9 is narrow enough without worrying that a sneeze will drop you back down there.

I don't want it to be that great of a healing effect, but I did bump it to ½ your BAB. Also, changed the damage dealing portion to just hit all adjacent creatures. None of the other Desert Wind maneuvers spare your allies, so there's no good reason for this one too either.

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Inferno Blast should probably specify that you don't damage yourself with it, unless you do.

Good catch. Will edit.

EDIT: Okay, major changes/additions made to the Inferno Blast maneuver. It is basically a small-scale nuclear blast. :) Also, I've added the short descriptions on Iron Heart maneuvers, I plan to finish the discipline up either later tonight or sometime tomorrow. Oh, finally, I've added revised rules for the Sunder special attack HERE. Now there is sundering of manufactured armor as well as all natural attacks! Neato? Let me know what you think.
« Last Edit: September 15, 2012, 10:44:26 AM by Ziegander »