Leadership Followers Sans Cohort

[PlzBreakMyCampaign]

This thread isn't about Thrallherd or even undead leadership (does anyone optimize with that?). It's about Leadership. Specifically if all cohorts were banned, but the feat was still pickable. So really, lets optimize followers in a balanced campaign.

I also assume that using the followers in battle is banned simply due to the logistics. Having cannon fodder may be fun but slowing down the game isn't. I am aware of circle magic uses and one other trick. But I'm probably missing something.

So what is the most broken part about followers out of combat?

[phaedrusxy]

It depends on what level the main character is. It is possible to have a bunch of level 6 followers for a level 6 main character, with a high enough leadership score.

You can use them for different kinds of "batteries" (feats, powers known, power points, etc) if you're a psionicist of some kind.

[brujon]

Strongholder Builder guides for turning your followers into gold producing machines, you know, landlord, upkeep, profit checks and the likes. Hum... Keeping all of them inside a bag of holding with some kind of unlimited air supply, Unseen Servant and the likes for being able to keep production with you, with you shouting orders to them periodically for producing specific items you need? Needs ways of keeping crafting supplies available to them all the time. Daily castings of material-producing spells should suffice.

An evil thrallherd could also pull up a Taliban and have a thrall run to hug an enemy while covered in explosive runes, with a scroll of lesser dispel of a CL inferior to what would be needed to dispel them. Instant ka-boom.

[Dusk Eclipse]

Isn't Bard with some IC and possibly DFI be the best option to make normally useless tags along useful?

[PlzBreakMyCampaign]

@PXY The feats would eat up PP but could be useful for out of combat ones. PP shenanigans is basically infinite spell slots and therefore not really used... But the powers per level restriction would be useful for 1st to 3rd level powers.

[awaken_D_M_golem]

High end:
Balor versus E6 army ... I'll sit over there and watch.

Low end:
If we can't find a PsyRef spammer, y'all are
just Commoners (Cannon Fodder) in disguise.

[phaedrusxy]

@PXY The feats would eat up PP but could be useful for out of combat ones. PP shenanigans is basically infinite spell slots and therefore not really used... But the powers per level restriction would be useful for 1st to 3rd level powers.

Not really infinite, if you don't use some kind of Bestow Power loop. Via Metafaculty, you can get a finite amount of power points plus a lot of low level powers known out of them, all for the cost of manifesting Metafaculty itself. The trick is to keep them safe but within range at the same time. I used a Ring Gate with a build using this, but turning them all into objects via Haunt Shift is another option. Then you can wear them.

[awaken_D_M_golem]

You could kill all the followers to do a
thrallherd sacrifice -type thing.  Get the
dark exp, into a Limited Wish item.
Pay for it by selling the left over gear.
Not a loop, since you're not a thrallherd.
"Wasted" feat slot though 
... and you have a bad reputation.

[PlzBreakMyCampaign]

If you can cast metafaculty, then you don't need followers. You can track down whoever you need...

@aMDg thats interesting but would probably be one shot. The gear wouldn't be that great and would count against your WBL. It is a non-TO source of dark exp though!

[PlzBreakMyCampaign]

I guess I'll call it case closed:

Leadership is balanced (without a cohort)

[Morph Bark]

Unless it's insanely optimized, Leadership is balanced. And even with insane optimization you're only breaking WBL, get unlimited free healing and deal extra tons of damage. Taking the leader out of the picture, we got a highly effective, self-sufficient community and monster-slaying army though.

But taking the leader out of the picture, you couldn't do such things as PsyReform and Bestow Power and such.

What's the highest score you could get at level 6 anyway? Both hypothetically and realistically?

[OutlawPhilosopher]

I think by "metafaculty" he meant "metaconcert," since that actually does what we want.

[Tohron]

If you give all of those followers optimized Handle Animal checks (add in Aid Another for extra goodness), you can end up with a pretty crazy menagerie of mid-CR (with item boosts, high CR too) monsters.  Magical Beasts are +5 to DC, Vermin are +10, other monsters are +15.

[phaedrusxy]

I think by "metafaculty" he meant "metaconcert," since that actually does what we want.

That's exactly right. Sorry about that. Via Metaconcert, you can "borrow" every power known of up to 9 other individuals at once. Assuming the other 9 individuals are your followers, that gives you access to a huge repertoire of 1st through 3rd level powers known. You also can "borrow" their feats via Feat Leech, and use their power points via Bestow Power or during the Metaconcert.

If you turn your followers into objects via making them undead and Haunt Shifting them, you can use this "library" of powers known, feats, and borrowed power points whenever you want. Turning them into attuned objects also gives them much more protection than they'd have if they remained in their "squishy" 6th level (or lower) bodies.