General Discussion and Suggestions

[oslecamo]

Clarified typo.

I would imagine most homebrew is intended to be RAI? No?

Unrelated but
@OSLECAMO

So Moon Vanguard gets Nanoarmor that can emulate a Real or Super Robot.
What happens if a Moon Vanguard multiclasses into Ship Captain?
Does my Super Robot Nanoarmor get to become a Super Battleship somehow? 

Moon Vanguard doesn't really interact with pilot classes. The nanoarmor is a separate entity from the mecha/ship, and it growing to that kind of size would kinda defeat the whole point of the class of skimpy power armor.

Primordial Pilot: The Einst Queen counts as a Pilot for meeting the prerequisites of feats, and her drones count as having the same Pilot level for any ability that cares about it. If she picks Funnel Control System,  instead of robots she unleashes a massive swarm of diminutive Einst drones from  her body, that follow the same game rules as funnels.

Sadly, Funnels demand spellcasting ability, so it's a rather unlikely option unless you just want one level of casting. Are they still supposed to still have that requirement, or was it an oversight?

Psionics is fine too. Grab that feat that grants one psionic power.

On the other hand, I guess I could add a spellcasting variant to the Einst Queen. How does bard progression instead of maneuvers or mutations sounds?

[Raineh Daze]

I actually considered Hidden Talent and taking funnels until I realised that I couldn't grant it to my drones instead, because they aren't casters.

Bard Progression? But what spell list? Druid stuff? Bards?

[Anomander]

Few questions:

1- How does the Disarming weapon property works against Mechas? A mecha is expected to fight other mechas, so what's the point of disarming if their weapons are all built-in and undisarmable? Or does it make them unusable for a moment? I suppose Arsenal weapons could be disarmed but I don't think once disarmed you can just take them... unless perhaps one voluntarily keeps his arsenal points used lower to make some space for stolen arsenal weapons.

2-Engine Overload (Into the Danger Zone 1 Stance): Is it meant to be 1 extra energy per extra 5-ft. granted by this stance or indeed 1 extra point of energy per 5-ft. moved. Because that makes all your movement -before- you actually get to the extra movement granted by this stance require more energy.
Ie: You have a fly speed of 60 and move 65 mu with this stance. As written, it costs 26 energy to move 5-ft. further than you would had you only paid 12 energy for 60-mu.
If it was only extra energy for the extra movement, you'd pay 2energy per extra 5 mu, so 65-mu would cost 14, which makes more sense. This level 1 stance otherwise won't be used much since no mecha will have all that much energy to use it.

3-Battleships and Ammo: I don't see where it says we can refill ammunition. The Cartridge accessory in the arsenal points out you can get a new cartridge when you go to the place where you can change your arsenal but that doesn't cover ammo in general. Otherwise, a battleship has ammo limits, and can be change its own arsenal over time. If it picks cartridges, by visiting its own battleship, doesn't that mean the captain's battleship get infinite ammo? It would make more sense if it took some time, but definitely not the time it takes to change arsenal. Making ammo isn't that time consuming. Also, if it takes Veteran Mechanics, does it gain infinite ammo?

4-Relationship feat numbers: You'll be seeing more of those soon in-game, so I'd rather point out right away that I feel the numbers are a bit huge before I use them. Love gives a bonus to damage equal to HD up to x3. That is a -lot- of bonus damage just for being adjacent to your loved one when you attack, even for up to 3 feats.
Friendship and Rivalry might be alright. I think.

5- Battleship Cruising Speed: It takes a full-round action to initiate the process, and then movement begins on its next turn? Or is it supposed to take a full-round action like withdrawing or running, and include the movement?

6- Magic Zephyr Sword-Just kidding (Burning Justice 1 boost):

For every 3 pilot levels you have, you can summon a weapon of a Level higher, up to weapons lvl VII when you reach pilot level 18

Is it normal that there isn't a melee arsenal Lv5 weapon in the list? Otherwise there is nothing at that level to use the maneuver for.

7- Great Commander (Ships Full of Hope 3 Stance):

for every 3 Ship Captain levels

Being a maneuver, shouldn't it work out of pilot levels instead of levels in the class?
I mean, it already points out that "This doesn't do anything if you don't already have the leader feat." but it already doesn't do anything if you do don't have at least 3 levels in Ship Captain, which includes the Leader feat. It is very redundant. It would make sense if it worked out of pilot levels instead though, so perhaps that's what was intended.

8- Machinery Warrior Android: If it gets in One with the Machine mode with its mecha, is it supposed to heal from its own nanomachines plus those of its mecha? If so, at Self-Regenerating V they would pretty much heal all their HP at beginning of their every turn.

[oslecamo]

I actually considered Hidden Talent and taking funnels until I realised that I couldn't grant it to my drones instead, because they aren't casters.

Bard Progression? But what spell list? Druid stuff? Bards?

Been thinking on that, and decided that the best would be making a custom list of spells like I did for the Arcane and Divine Pilots. Even if it takes more work on my part.

1- How does the Disarming weapon property works against Mechas? A mecha is expected to fight other mechas, so what's the point of disarming if their weapons are all built-in and undisarmable? Or does it make them unusable for a moment? I suppose Arsenal weapons could be disarmed but I don't think once disarmed you can just take them... unless perhaps one voluntarily keeps his arsenal points used lower to make some space for stolen arsenal weapons.

I guess I naver clarified that. Added something about that in the weapons section.

Mecha weapons can be disarmed, representing the weapon being ripped off its supports. Built-in weapons gain a +4 bonus against disarm attempts. A mecha who had a weapon disarmed can pick it up and perform improvised repairs to make it work again as a move action that provokes attacks of opportunity. Each weapon is specially adapted to each mecha, even generic arsenal ones, and thus it's impossible to pick up and use disarmed weapons from other mechas during combat.

2-Engine Overload (Into the Danger Zone 1 Stance): Is it meant to be 1 extra energy per extra 5-ft. granted by this stance or indeed 1 extra point of energy per 5-ft. moved. Because that makes all your movement -before- you actually get to the extra movement granted by this stance require more energy.
Ie: You have a fly speed of 60 and move 65 mu with this stance. As written, it costs 26 energy to move 5-ft. further than you would had you only paid 12 energy for 60-mu.
If it was only extra energy for the extra movement, you'd pay 2energy per extra 5 mu, so 65-mu would cost 14, which makes more sense. This level 1 stance otherwise won't be used much since no mecha will have all that much energy to use it.

The stance is called "Engine Overload", not "efficient energy use", so yeah the bigger energy cost. And yes it's meant for mechas that have the extra energy to burn.

3-Battleships and Ammo: I don't see where it says we can refill ammunition. The Cartridge accessory in the arsenal points out you can get a new cartridge when you go to the place where you can change your arsenal but that doesn't cover ammo in general. Otherwise, a battleship has ammo limits, and can be change its own arsenal over time. If it picks cartridges, by visiting its own battleship, doesn't that mean the captain's battleship get infinite ammo? It would make more sense if it took some time, but definitely not the time it takes to change arsenal. Making ammo isn't that time consuming. Also, if it takes Veteran Mechanics, does it gain infinite ammo?

-Added clauses about that in the arsenal section of the battleship.

4-Relationship feat numbers: You'll be seeing more of those soon in-game, so I'd rather point out right away that I feel the numbers are a bit huge before I use them. Love gives a bonus to damage equal to HD up to x3. That is a -lot- of bonus damage just for being adjacent to your loved one when you attack, even for up to 3 feats.
Friendship and Rivalry might be alright. I think.

Yeaaahh, I had already kinda noticed that (your first encounter? They were all lovers)

Nerfed it to only work 1/round.

...I'm also now afraid that your character is in love with her special doll.

5- Battleship Cruising Speed: It takes a full-round action to initiate the process, and then movement begins on its next turn? Or is it supposed to take a full-round action like withdrawing or running, and include the movement?

The first fullround action doesn't include movement.

6- Magic Zephyr Sword-Just kidding (Burning Justice 1 boost):

For every 3 pilot levels you have, you can summon a weapon of a Level higher, up to weapons lvl VII when you reach pilot level 18

Is it normal that there isn't a melee arsenal Lv5 weapon in the list? Otherwise there is nothing at that level to use the maneuver for.

...Wait, it's melee only? It was supposed to be any weapon. Fixed. GETTER GATLING GUN!!!!!

7- Great Commander (Ships Full of Hope 3 Stance):

for every 3 Ship Captain levels

Being a maneuver, shouldn't it work out of pilot levels instead of levels in the class?
I mean, it already points out that "This doesn't do anything if you don't already have the leader feat." but it already doesn't do anything if you do don't have at least 3 levels in Ship Captain, which includes the Leader feat. It is very redundant. It would make sense if it worked out of pilot levels instead though, so perhaps that's what was intended.

Good point, changed to scaling to pilot level.

8- Machinery Warrior Android: If it gets in One with the Machine mode with its mecha, is it supposed to heal from its own nanomachines plus those of its mecha? If so, at Self-Regenerating V they would pretty much heal all their HP at beginning of their every turn.

Abilities with the same name don't stack unless noted otherwise. The nanomachines keyword is used for both, so it simply overlaps.

[Anomander]

Alrighty.

Yeaaahh, I had already kinda noticed that (your first encounter? They were all lovers)

Speaking of which. There seemed to be a lot of attacks involved. How many synchro attacks can there be per turn?
-ie1: Two pilots in a relationship attack same target on round 1, then both attack it again on round two. When pilot A attacks, synchro attack with pilot B. If pilot B attacks it as well, does it trigger another synchro with pilot A or only a single synchro that is triggered by either of them?
-ie 2: Pilot A and B are in a relationship and both used an area attack that hit a few targets on round 1. On round two, Pilot A uses another area attack that hits those they both got on round 1. Do they make a synchro attack against each one of those targets?
-ie 3: Pilot A, B and C all have relationships with eachother (say, Love between A and B, Devotion between A and C, and Rivalry between B and C). They each attack the same target on round 1. They all get adjacent to eachother and start to synchro attack. Do they all participate in a single (or more depending on the answer for ie1) synchro attack or is it triggered for each relationship (Love synchro, Devotion synchro, Rivalry synchro)?

[oslecamo]

1-Pilot A and Pilot B can both trigger synchro attacks on the same round as long as they have enough ammo/energy remaining.
2-Sychro attacks can only be performed against a single target, but area effects and whatnot may allow you to hit others as collateral as part of that.
3-Only two partners may participate in a single synchro attack. They could chain together, in your example  B and A synchro, then A sychros with C, then C synchros with B.

[Annforest]

I see.
Just to be sure though; since in example 1 they both can trigger it, would example 3 result in:

1- All 3 pilots attack the same target on round 1. On round 2, A attacks the target and triggers a synchro with B or C, or is it triggering two separate synchro attacks, one with B followed by another with C? Since C (or B) attacked the target as part of the synchro, it triggers a synchro attack with B (or C) or again with A. And so on. Unless attacks from synchro attacks cannot trigger another synchro attack and must be triggered by a attack that uses the pilot's own actions, which leads to...
2-  All 3 pilots attack the same target on round 1. On round 2, A attacks the target and triggers a synchro with B. It then makes another attack and triggers another synchro with C. Then, B makes an attack of his own and triggers a synchro with A, then makes another attack and triggers a synchro with C. Finally, C makes two attacks of his own, triggering a synchro with A and then with B with the second attack.

Also... I like the soulmeld system. How does it work with your mecha system? From what I read, it doesn't seem like the big robots have an item slot they could use to channel the soulmelds.

[Raineh Daze]

-ie 3: Pilot A, B and C all have relationships with eachother (say, Love between A and B, Devotion between A and C, and Rivalry between B and C). They each attack the same target on round 1. They all get adjacent to eachother and start to synchro attack. Do they all participate in a single (or more depending on the answer for ie1) synchro attack or is it triggered for each relationship (Love synchro, Devotion synchro, Rivalry synchro)

This example also sounds like a stunningly dysfunctional group of relationships.

[ketaro]

No its a love triangle.

A loves B. (Love feat)
A & C are childhood friends (Devotion feat)
B & C are rivals for A's love (Rivalry)

Always assuming A & C are opposite genders
Its a classical, stereotypical cliche~

[Raineh Daze]

No its a love triangle.

A loves B. (Love feat)
A & C are childhood friends (Devotion feat)
B & C are rivals for A's love (Rivalry)

Always assuming A & C are opposite genders
Its a classical, stereotypical cliche~

Why does the gender of participants matter?

[Anomander]

This example also sounds like a stunningly dysfunctional group of relationships.

No its a love triangle.

That was kind of intended.

[ketaro]

No its a love triangle.

A loves B. (Love feat)
A & C are childhood friends (Devotion feat)
B & C are rivals for A's love (Rivalry)

Always assuming A & C are opposite genders
Its a classical, stereotypical cliche~

Why does the gender of participants matter?

Because otherwise it's not a cliche. Otherwise, it's a studio trying to be edgy and different and pretending to do something unique when it's actually not but advertising it as if it was 
Basically, what I said is a cliche, and when it doesn't matter, it's a marketing ploy 

[oslecamo]

1- All 3 pilots attack the same target on round 1. On round 2, A attacks the target and triggers a synchro with B or C, or is it triggering two separate synchro attacks, one with B followed by another with C? Since C (or B) attacked the target as part of the synchro, it triggers a synchro attack with B (or C) or again with A. And so on. Unless attacks from synchro attacks cannot trigger another synchro attack and must be triggered by a attack that uses the pilot's own actions, which leads to...

Yes, of course they can't trigger new attacks, otherwise you would get an infinite loop with just two pilots (A starts, B synchros, then A synchros, and so on). Clarified it.

2-  All 3 pilots attack the same target on round 1. On round 2, A attacks the target and triggers a synchro with B. It then makes another attack and triggers another synchro with C. Then, B makes an attack of his own and triggers a synchro with A, then makes another attack and triggers a synchro with C. Finally, C makes two attacks of his own, triggering a synchro with A and then with B with the second attack.

If A/B/C can make two separate attacks on their own per turn, yes, they can trigger two synchros. Remember that the action used for the attack is the same granted to the synchronized pilots.

Also... I like the soulmeld system. How does it work with your mecha system? From what I read, it doesn't seem like the big robots have an item slot they could use to channel the soulmelds.

Pilot soulmelds, benefits are granted to the mecha.

No its a love triangle.

A loves B. (Love feat)
A & C are childhood friends (Devotion feat)
B & C are rivals for A's love (Rivalry)

Always assuming A & C are opposite genders
Its a classical, stereotypical cliche~

Why does the gender of participants matter?

Because otherwise it's not a cliche. Otherwise, it's a studio trying to be edgy and different and pretending to do something unique when it's actually not but advertising it as if it was 
Basically, what I said is a cliche, and when it doesn't matter, it's a marketing ploy 

CCS disagrees with you.
...
Oh, wait, you were talking about mecha series.
...

(click to show/hide)

Totally happened on the official series.

[Anomander]

I'm considering making or helping out with the creation of a Mecha Engineer class.

Its design would be centered like the Einst Queen on two 'modes'; Engineer with maneuvers and engineer with class abilities.

The premise is that I've seen many instances where the pilot of a mecha actually is a good for nothing that can't really do much when it isn't piloting the mecha, and that is mostly because the mecha is doing all the work.
Explanation: The pilot sucks, but whoever made the mecha is a damn genius.

The mecha engineer would have low BaB progression, high Will save, 4+int skill points and skill ranks mostly in craft and knowledge skills. I would have it get 8+int skill points but instead I'll have it gain 4 skill points that are only possessed by mecha itself and solely in Str or Dex-based skills and perhaps perception skills. I would also have it get a high BaB progression but only the mecha itself is considered to have it. The mecha would also work has if it had a high Reflex save progression. So out of the mecha the engineer would be pretty wimpy.

What I am aiming for, however, is for the engineer and the mecha to be completely separate stat wise.
The mecha does not benefit from any self buffing class abilities, from the engineer's feats, skill points (beside the 4/level mentioned) or whatever. The engineer designs it to have its own stats, set of feats and so on and if the engineer pilots it, the mecha doesn't benefit from the engineer's stats in any way.
...Which is why the engineer usually doesn't pilot the mecha and supports the party instead (kind of like a sentient super robot, but without copycat stats). The one piloting his machine would usually be some random angsty kid with emotional problems (level 1 commoner or any other ally willing to pilot it) that was "chosen" to pilot it for a reason or another. Odds are the first crit takes out the kid, though. No matter. There are plenty of kids out there dying to be "chosen" by fate or whatever. It could have a similar Eisnt Queen system in which the engineer can build a few mechas (if it has the time and resources to do it) that are piloted by more stupid kids.
Going that way would give the Eisnt Queen a non-alien-apocalypse counterpart, I suppose, but I'm not sure about threading that route.

If the engineer gets a cohort, it could replace the wimpy kid or represent the kid growing a spine and actually becoming a competent pilot, in which case the mecha would use the cohort's stats instead of its own as usual while it pilots it. Or not and just make the pilot less vulnerable to being whipped out and maybe give it the possibility of using spirits.

Maneuver-based engineer would program some maneuvers that the mecha would know (not the engineer, though) and the engineer with class abilities would get special features for himself or for the mecha in the form of Breakthroughs (it would have its own).
The mecha would work like a real, super or multiclass robot, which would make multiclassing into Mecha Engineer rather simple for the purpose of determining what the mecha has access to.

It wouldn't get spirits and rely on progress points. It'd get about 7 feats throughout the 20 levels and the capstone that would maybe allow it once per hour to have a little more energy regen than usual for 1 minute. Like +1/10.


Only if you're cool with it though.

[oslecamo]

On other news, expanded the real robots list a bit. Also reduced the arsenal cost of many weapons, and an option of picking pairs of lower-level weapons for reduced cost while granting them the twin-linked property.

Only if you're cool with it though.

That depends widely on how good that independent mecha is when compared with the mechas given by the other classes when being piloted. And what the engineer can exactly do. And how much of a force multiplier the mecha engineer is for a group.

Because honestly right now the custom mecha alone seems to be plain superior. Basically works by itself, but gets its own customized maneuvers and feats and skills and then unique upgrades on top of that. And then the engineer seems like he'll have stuff of his own to do during combat. If you're gonna get two characters for the price of one, they need to be weaker, and if then they're also a lot more versatile, then that's still trouble.

Also if you're gonnna go with the borked "My enemy has a mecha? I don't care, I can directly attack the pilot inside. Oh, wait, I do care that my enemy has a mecha because I get to turn it into extra bonus for myself, while they still don't get any benefit from it against my attacks, they're all complete suckers for even trying to use a mecha against me.", then just forget it.

[Anomander]

Because honestly right now the custom mecha alone seems to be plain superior. Basically works by itself, but gets its own customized maneuvers and feats and skills and then unique upgrades on top of that. And then the engineer seems like he'll have stuff of his own to do during combat. If you're gonna get two characters for the price of one, they need to be weaker, and if then they're also a lot more versatile, then that's still trouble.

It shouldn't be that impressive. As far as two characters for the price of one goes, I aim for something between Einst drone and how good a Super Pilot's Sentient Imprinted mecha could be.
The super pilot's mecha is pretty similar, it "works by itself, but gets its own customized maneuvers and feats and skills and then unique upgrades on top of that". The difference is that unlike the super robot, the engineer doesn't have the maneuvers (unless it pilots the robot) and the stats of the robot are independent of the engineer's.
...Which technically should make it harder to abuse since the robot doesn't benefit from the PC's very high stats, self-buffing class abilities and so on. Kind of like a einst drone that is controlled and not piloted.
If the pilot forsake maneuvers, it gets other stuff that would be an equivalent.

The only thing I'm wondering is if the stuff it would get for not taking maneuvers should be available to a would-be pilot other than the engineer that wants to pilot it, since when someone pilots someone else's robot they have access to that robot's maneuvers on top of their own for some reason.

That depends widely on how good that independent mecha is when compared with the mechas given by the other classes when being piloted. And what the engineer can exactly do. And how much of a force multiplier the mecha engineer is for a group.

The engineer gets class abilities if it doesn't get maneuvers. Unless it pilots the mecha himself or buy magic gear for the kids, the mecha won't benefit much from equipment other than arsenal.
I guess power players will want to pilot their own mecha, which makes sense since there are instances of pilots being great engineers, or have some cohort or a fellow PC do it.
What the engineer does would be limited by its equipment, skills, feats and whatever it gets for multiclassing in something else if he goes the maneuvers path. If it takes class abilities instead, it should be about on par with what having divine spellcasting in mu-scale should offer to a group.

[oslecamo]

If it takes class abilities instead, it should be about on par with what having divine spellcasting in mu-scale should offer to a group.

Danger Will Robinson!

A Divine Pilot only gets an heavily nerfed real robot for their troubles, while the engineer you speak of would get something close to a sentient super robot. That would definitely be crossing the power line.

[Anomander]

Yes, but the divine pilot gets Spirits on top of divine casting. The engineer would have its engineering and class abilities be about the equivalent of the divine casting by itself.

[Raineh Daze]

Spirits are not equal to the gap between a good robot and a bad one.

[oslecamo]

Not to mention, while the Divine Pilot needs to be inside her mecha to get her spells going mecha-scale and has bad skills, the engineer's mecha gets to go around with good combat stats, combat feats, better skills than the divine pilot, and maneuvers, which will probably be superior to spirits. While the engineer themselves are still throwing their spellcasting-equivalent support at the same time their custom mecha is beating the crap out of stuff.