General Discussion and Suggestions

[oslecamo]

Just as planned.

[Raineh Daze]

Eh, I'm due for a total rebuild of the thing anyway (and it hasn't been seen since it blew up round one of having it ), so it's no big deal to work out what the mecha is meant for.

I definitely prefer that version for allowing large mecha to go compensate for at least one of the size aspects/specialise in something regardless of enormity over the version you mentioned in the OOC. Big cost, but the offset once you've got a big enough robot is neat.

[ketaro]

On the topic of Zoids, a new (maybe) anime was teased!!!

[ketaro]

Can you pick Soul of the Machine multiple times for a stacking effect?

Why are you banned from Hyperdimensional Storage now if you have Mysterious Power and/or Nanomachines?
And while on that, by technicality, " You cannot pick this if you have either Nanomachines or Mysterious Power." BUT does it also mean if you picked it before you gained either of the regen upgrades, that you immediately lose and/or get refunded Hyperdimensional Storage?

Edit: Something I just noticed, but everytime a batch of changes come out to rebalance or buff Reals or Supers or both, all my

Like, basically, every update some how nerfs Supers every time despite constantly adding options for them 

[oslecamo]

Can you pick Soul of the Machine multiple times for a stacking effect?

Yes.

Why are you banned from Hyperdimensional Storage now if you have Mysterious Power and/or Nanomachines?

Because they were all basically auto-picks for any and every super robot even with increasing costs.

And while on that, by technicality, " You cannot pick this if you have either Nanomachines or Mysterious Power." BUT does it also mean if you picked it before you gained either of the regen upgrades, that you immediately lose and/or get refunded Hyperdimensional Storage?

That cannot happen as Nanomachines/Mysterious power cannot be picked if you already have Hyperdimensional Storage.

Edit: Something I just noticed, but everytime a batch of changes come out to rebalance or buff Reals or Supers or both, all my

Like, basically, every update some how nerfs Supers every time despite constantly adding options for them 

That's because my updates aren't meant to be power creeps. I nerf the options that are too OP while adding new ones.

[Rekmond]

Such fun additions and updates.
    And don't worry Ketaro, You aren't alone on the hyperdimension and nanomachines/mysterious power conflict.

I understand why....but dislike it. But I think that's the squealing mech fan inside of me that dislikes it....

The base weapon damage for inbuilts being boosted to d10 is a nice relief. Since for Supers cutting them off from dimensional storage meant no arsenal for anything over the d6s without plus sizing yourself.

I think this will all be interesting especially for the Moon Vanguard with the loadout setup. More variety between the loadouts instead of same base with differet weps and accessories.

[CKirk]

I've a question about the Super Robot "Extra" upgrade. It says you get an extra basic weapon built in. Is that another one of the d10+str ones that come default, or what? On a similar note, how do you get ranged weapons like chest blasters and boost knuckles for your Grungust?

[Raineh Daze]

I've a question about the Super Robot "Extra" upgrade. It says you get an extra basic weapon built in. Is that another one of the d10+str ones that come default, or what? On a similar note, how do you get ranged weapons like chest blasters and boost knuckles for your Grungust?

1) Yes.

2) Real Robot multiclassing or Arsenal to get at ranged weapons, then refluff. Or Burning Justice maneuvers.

Which I argue continues to put nanomachines in the worst possible situation, because you're stuffed when it comes to anything but the inbuilt weapons for... healing. Refresh or Guts, one arsenal item to upgrade spirit? Supers have no reason to take the thing only Supers can get, because you lose a stupid amount of options for things you can do better with 25 Arsenal space.

[CKirk]

Another question. I keep seeing mentions of a "Moon Vanguard" class, but I can't seem to find it. Has it been posted?

[oslecamo]

Moon Vanguard is from another project of mine that borrows the mecha rules.

Which I argue continues to put nanomachines in the worst possible situation, because you're stuffed when it comes to anything but the inbuilt weapons for... healing. Refresh or Guts, one arsenal item to upgrade spirit? Supers have no reason to take the thing only Supers can get, because you lose a stupid amount of options for things you can do better with 25 Arsenal space.

I plan to go around adding situational penalties to the non-weapon Arsenal options in the near future. Already did that to some like the armors now slow you down and the shields can't protect you if you're flanked.

[CKirk]

Do mecha weapons count as one or two handed for purposes of Power Attack? Is that just a fluff thing?

[oslecamo]

Good question, added a clause to the general mecha combat that a mecha weapons counts as two-handed for Power Attack and similar abilities if you don't use any other weapons for the round.

[CKirk]

How about enchantment? Can you enchant your mecha's weapons? I'm going to assume either you can't, or if you do you don't get to use the Over the Top feature of the I Am Invincible feat, but what if you're not going for that?

Also: The description for growth says standard benefits and penalties for size, except no stat changes and nat armor only increases by 1. By SRD, size changes don't change stats or nat armor at all. What changes are intended to be applied here?

[oslecamo]

How about enchantment? Can you enchant your mecha's weapons? I'm going to assume either you can't, or if you do you don't get to use the Over the Top feature of the I Am Invincible feat, but what if you're not going for that?

You can't enchant your mecha's weapons/plating. I'll specify that later in the intro if it's not clear enough yet.

Also: The description for growth says standard benefits and penalties for size, except no stat changes and nat armor only increases by 1. By SRD, size changes don't change stats or nat armor at all. What changes are intended to be applied here?

I have to say I agree with you about the stats ad natural armor change.

However, I've seen a lot of people over the years claim the other way just because of the monster advancement rules by HD. So I just include that clause by default in all my homebrew that changes size just in case.

[CKirk]

Another few questions. Is it at all possible for super robots to get Heavy weapons? because I can't figure out a way to do it aside from Arsenal, and if that's the only way, why does it specify special bonuses for Heavy [Main] Weapons?
Is it at all possible to get an Area weapon on a super without arsenal?
Why do supers have the Blasting upgrade available? They can't have built-in ranged weapons.
And if all Supers get from growth is +1 nat armor...what's the point, and why is it so restricted? +base size and bonus to maneuvers is typically not worth a penalty to hit and AC, so...why?

[Raineh Daze]

Size = higher weapon damage dice, better reach, better grapple modifiers, and carrying capacity explicitly factors it in. It also restricts other people's options regarding what they can do to you. There's also the roleplay benefits and times when sheer common sense means that, no, someone behind a wall can't have cover when the wall comes to your ankle.

[oslecamo]

Another few questions. Is it at all possible for super robots to get Heavy weapons? because I can't figure out a way to do it aside from Arsenal,

Pick Paired weapon twice and you can combine them into an Heavy weapon.

and if that's the only way, why does it specify special bonuses for Heavy [Main] Weapons?

You can get a Heavy [Main] weapon by multiclassing Super Pilot with either Real or Ship Captain.

Is it at all possible to get an Area weapon on a super without arsenal?

Not before, but added that option to versatile.

Why do supers have the Blasting upgrade available? They can't have built-in ranged weapons.

Well you can with Transform (tank). Also multiclass.

And if all Supers get from growth is +1 nat armor...what's the point, and why is it so restricted? +base size and bonus to maneuvers is typically not worth a penalty to hit and AC, so...why?

As Raineh pointed out, big nice bonus to damage die and reach. Area property will affect a wider zone. Plus mechas are specifically immune to most effects from smaller non-mecha. Great One uprade also scales strongly with size.

[CKirk]

No weapons (that I can see) have a damage type listed. What damage types are everything? (relevant for bypassing DR)

[Anomander]

I'll probably check everything new in greater depths later but something stroke my eye when I glanced over the Great One upgrades;
Great Agility grants +40 mu movement speed while the normal seems to have the bonus be equivalent to 4 upgrade points in their respective kind of upgrade, but Agility gives 5 mu per point, so the Great One is effectively doubling the gains in speed.
Just pointing it out in case giving bigger speeds than the norm for four points wasn't intended.
Its colossal bonus to agility is also noted as granting DR.

[SorO_Lost]

No weapons (that I can see) have a damage type listed. What damage types are everything? (relevant for bypassing DR)

1. Echoing.

2. Also as is there is no point in using Minimization. Perhaps Great Agility/Targeting should be adjusted to provide extra bonuses if you focus on being smaller. Arsenal also appears unaffected by changing you mech size, maybe in a way this avoids penalizing Miniaturization but then again Built-Ins are which forces the smaller mechs to use Arsenal which inevitably forces all small Mechs to rely on melee (see below) where they will auto-fail opposing Grapple Checks which presumably disables use of their Arsenal and rely on their inferior Built-Ins for one sided battles.

3. A more in depth look at DPR.
Using Gargantuan, 30 Str/Dex, for the opposing DR without Arsenal you can reach 35 so let's go with that.

A) A Greatsword deals 24d6+10 (94 avg), it costs 6,400gp but while Enhancement costs don't rescale making a Masterwork version costs 44,800 so let's just stick to that normal figure. Assuming three attacks per round because maybe you're looking at taking lv14 that's 118 after DR.
B) Focusing on Mech weapons, you can take Mightyx8, Pairedx1, & Rending. This gives you a double 4d8+26 (44 avg) per attack action, or 156 post DR after six attacks. More attacks, more damage, but costs several upgrade points.
C) For Heavy let's look at the Antiship Beam Sword which is one of the most powerful weapons and as lv3 can be Linked and assuming Mightyx8, you get two attacks of 9d12+36 (94.5) for 119 which comes out pretty close to the cheap Greatsword but has Power/Concussive/Disarming making it a better choice unless you need to trade those Mech properties away for gear-related Arsenal.

Seems fair right? Well let's look at Ranged. A +10 Longbow costs 140,800gp so instead let's just go with a Heavy Repeater for 16d8 (72 avg) which is three attacks and 111 after DR. Built-Ins via Tank become 3d8+26 (39.5 avg) or 129 after DR. And for Arsenal we have two choices, Linked lv3 comes to 3d6+26 (36.5 avg) or 9 after DR and none-Linked comes to 4d6+26 (40 avg) or 15 post DR. Even moving back to a Heavy Railgun for 12d10+36 (102 avg) even after post Rending DR that's only 84. Ranged Arsenal just isn't worth using.

4. Minor nitpick but your Arsenal dice are all over the place with no discernible pattern beyond Ranged gets about an average of 1d6 per level. Like lets look at melee, both heavy & not.
Lv1: 1d8 (4.5) / 2d10 (11)
Lv2: 2d6 (7, +2.5 gain) / 9d8 (40.5, +29.5 gain)
Lv3: 2d6 (7, +0 gain) / 9d12 (58.5, +18 gain)
Lv4: 3d6 (10.5, +3.5 gain) / 12d12 (78, +19.5 gain)
Lv5: 4d6 (14, +3.5 gain) / 20d10 (110, +32 gain)
Lv6: 8d8 (36, +22 gain) / 19d12 (123.5, +13.5 gain)
Lv7: 10d10 (55, +19 gain) / 30d12 (195, +71.5 gain)
Which is probably why Heavy melee's figures can keep up with the other choices. 

6. btw, given the "future" nature of a Super Robot campaign how does this interact with the DMG's modern weapons such as a Shotgun or d20's weapons, since you have rail guns & colossal mechs, say a Pulse Rifle?