General Discussion and Suggestions

[oslecamo]

Added Heat Saber Type 7.

[Anomander]

You could have mentioned it all in a single post, and actually didn't even need to thanks to your changelogs. Weird.
You'd have reached 700 posts in the thread before long anyway.

Anyway.

You mean the spirit recovery?

Here I thought I was being subtle.

The target must be an organic creature so mechas don't really qualify. Any structural damage will be so minor to don't count like a mosquito's bite.

So the ability technically cannot be used on a pilot within a mecha. Though if the ability can target mechas to only affect the pilot, then beyond having a means to inflict direct damage to pilots reliably the ability would be a gamble unless you know the race of the pilot, since you do not necessarily know if the pilot is organic. Also, is this assuming a dictionary definition of organic creature (since dnd nomenclature is usually separates them by the terms "corporate living" while many undead creatures can count as organic. Some constructs would also count as organic.

But part of the medic's charm is pushing puny organics beyond their limits.

Aye. Which often involves cyborgization to bring them back from the brink of death. Jeremiah Gottwald returned thanks to such an operation.
More of a scientist thing, sure, but rebuilding people (with other organic stuff or not) usually is, anyway.

Operation: I hope only different kinds of operations can stack together and not the same kind multiple times.

Ah, yes, forgot that clause, thanks. Also increased the HP cost.

As is it prevents multiple of the same operation applying from the same support staff medics, but not different applications of the same operation from different medics.

Also, there numerous references in Support Staff to pilot level.
Pilot level is usually the measure for pilot maneuvers and those are often calculated the same way initiator level is (base class levels + half other class levels), but support staffs don't get any maneuvers nor its own clarification what on pilot level means for it and how it is calculated. It seems here to be confused with the term "class level", which refers exclusively to levels in the actual class.

Indeed it does.
You know what doesn't make sense? Making humanoid giant robots when other forms would be much more cost-efficient.
So again the excuse is that it just happens that some new SCIENCE! revolution results in mechas being the most cost-efficient way of applying all this technology. No mecha, no super tech.

It making sense isn't the core of the reason I'm suggesting it. I think it would make the class more interesting and satisfying to play since you aren't always in the mecha and even then it isn't much of an advantage since it is limited to a specific area only, which means it isn't helping as much when going out adventuring and and just about not at all during fights (unless they happen within/close enough to the base's building).
The caster pilots, for example, still have their spells/psionics while on foot. Even the super/real pilots have means to use their maneuvers while on foot thanks to a feat.
The princess has abilities that can help while on foot. The support staff cannot use his abilities without a mecha. And working in your lab/special place is cool and would make the class a bit more fun.
Just a suggestion and I'm explaining exactly why I'm suggesting it.

Edit: Almost forgot:

For the creation of replacement clones, a time roll of 1 means the new clone has an incurable cancer that will kill them in 1d12 months. This will not carry to new clones though.

As is, nothing about the cloning option that specifically creates clones. That line implies that it does, but it doesn't detail how we go about making a clone.
The Raise Dead/Resurrection options are probably meant to count as making clones but then the difference with the regular spell effect would be greater than simply needing 10% of the body mass instead of the whole or important part of the body (or nothing for True Rezz). It changes the requirements of the willingness of the soul and wouldn't require the creature to actually be dead along with allowing the making of duplicates. Just to clarify that while you did put info on what applies to clones and such, the ability itself currently replicates spell effects that themselves aren't making clones.

[SorO_Lost]

You could have mentioned it all in a single post, and actually didn't even need to thanks to your changelogs. Weird.

Yeah but then he wouldn't get to keep listing his thread at the bottom of the main page

Which, if you're like a couple of our members, doesn't work if you use unread since it lists the thread once irregardless of the number of new posts. Anyway, editing tip. ctrl+i is the command shortcut for adding italic text, b and u work as well for bold/underline. It's faster than typing out the format and skips errors like [ /i] in the Terror Tactics School. But, what is that image from? I feel like I've seen it before but I can't place it.

[oslecamo]

The target must be an organic creature so mechas don't really qualify. Any structural damage will be so minor to don't count like a mosquito's bite.

So the ability technically cannot be used on a pilot within a mecha. Though if the ability can target mechas to only affect the pilot, then beyond having a means to inflict direct damage to pilots reliably the ability would be a gamble unless you know the race of the pilot, since you do not necessarily know if the pilot is organic.

Correct.

Also, is this assuming a dictionary definition of organic creature (since dnd nomenclature is usually separates them by the terms "corporate living" while many undead creatures can count as organic. Some constructs would also count as organic.

Undeads and constructs may look like organic, but considering their production proccess results in materials that no bacteria can survive in and in which toxins and enzymes and whatnot have zero reaction, they're clearly not organic anymore. Plus the bit where a destroyed undead can't be re-animated again.

But part of the medic's charm is pushing puny organics beyond their limits.

Aye. Which often involves cyborgization to bring them back from the brink of death. Jeremiah Gottwald returned thanks to such an operation.
More of a scientist thing, sure, but rebuilding people (with other organic stuff or not) usually is, anyway.

That's for what the rebuilding option is.

But anyway the point is connecting meat bag directly to mecha. Not connecting mecha to other metal thingy.

Operation: I hope only different kinds of operations can stack together and not the same kind multiple times.

Ah, yes, forgot that clause, thanks. Also increased the HP cost.

As is it prevents multiple of the same operation applying from the same support staff medics, but not different applications of the same operation from different medics.

Moar clauses added.

Also, there numerous references in Support Staff to pilot level.
Pilot level is usually the measure for pilot maneuvers and those are often calculated the same way initiator level is (base class levels + half other class levels), but support staffs don't get any maneuvers nor its own clarification what on pilot level means for it and how it is calculated. It seems here to be confused with the term "class level", which refers exclusively to levels in the actual class.

Nah, it's your usual pseudo-IL that counts half other levels, added clause for that in Specialization.

Indeed it does.
You know what doesn't make sense? Making humanoid giant robots when other forms would be much more cost-efficient.
So again the excuse is that it just happens that some new SCIENCE! revolution results in mechas being the most cost-efficient way of applying all this technology. No mecha, no super tech.

It making sense isn't the core of the reason I'm suggesting it. I think it would make the class more interesting and satisfying to play since you aren't always in the mecha and even then it isn't much of an advantage since it is limited to a specific area only, which means it isn't helping as much when going out adventuring and and just about not at all during fights (unless they happen within/close enough to the base's building).
The caster pilots, for example, still have their spells/psionics while on foot. Even the super/real pilots have means to use their maneuvers while on foot thanks to a feat.
The princess has abilities that can help while on foot. The support staff cannot use his abilities without a mecha. And working in your lab/special place is cool and would make the class a bit more fun.
Just a suggestion and I'm explaining exactly why I'm suggesting it.

Well that's a much better explanation. Added clause for that in specialization.

Edit: Almost forgot:

For the creation of replacement clones, a time roll of 1 means the new clone has an incurable cancer that will kill them in 1d12 months. This will not carry to new clones though.

As is, nothing about the cloning option that specifically creates clones. That line implies that it does, but it doesn't detail how we go about making a clone.
The Raise Dead/Resurrection options are probably meant to count as making clones but then the difference with the regular spell effect would be greater than simply needing 10% of the body mass instead of the whole or important part of the body (or nothing for True Rezz). It changes the requirements of the willingness of the soul and wouldn't require the creature to actually be dead along with allowing the making of duplicates. Just to clarify that while you did put info on what applies to clones and such, the ability itself currently replicates spell effects that themselves aren't making clones.

Should be better worded now.

Anyway, editing tip. ctrl+i is the command shortcut for adding italic text, b and u work as well for bold/underline. It's faster than typing out the format and skips errors like [ /i] in the Terror Tactics School.

I use basic .txt to write most of my D&D related stuff. No, I don't care what you use to write yourself. No, I don't care what you think I should use to write my stuff. Any other word from you about the topic of commands that only work on specific text editors will be considered spam and dealt with accordingly.

But, what is that image from? I feel like I've seen it before but I can't place it.

Zakus MK II being pwned in some Gundam show. Not sure which one, found the gif on the net.

[Anomander]

Also, is this assuming a dictionary definition of organic creature (since dnd nomenclature is usually separates them by the terms "corporatecorporeal living" while many undead creatures can count as organic. Some constructs would also count as organic.

Undeads and constructs may look like organic, but considering their production proccess results in materials that no bacteria can survive in and in which toxins and enzymes and whatnot have zero reaction, they're clearly not organic anymore. Plus the bit where a destroyed undead can't be re-animated again.

Fine by me though you may want to clarify somewhere that all references to organic creatures is another way to say corporeal living creature or otherwise define it since it isn't obvious. Many undead creatures have fast healing, carry diseases, have abilities that feel very organic such as a dangerous digestion system and even the Atropal was designed with Regeneration for some reason. Some constructs can be built out of plants and may even do stuff like actual photosynthesis.

Aye. Which often involves cyborgization to bring them back from the brink of death. Jeremiah Gottwald returned thanks to such an operation.
More of a scientist thing, sure, but rebuilding people (with other organic stuff or not) usually is, anyway.

That's for what the rebuilding option is.
But anyway the point is connecting meat bag directly to mecha. Not connecting mecha to other metal thingy.

Aye, I was referring to the rebuilding option there indeed.

You can apply multiple operations in a single creature, but no more than one of each kind (including not being able to perform an operation on a subject that is already under effect from that operation by somebody else).

Looks good though maybe it should not apply to Plastic Surgery. But that's only from a logical standpoint. You could of course revert the Plastic Surgery operation to put another one but it is a bit weird that you'd have to return to your previous face before getting another one.

Good fixes. Maybe the class would also benefit from class-specific feats, such as a "Double Degree/Double Doctorate" feat that allows a Support Staff to pick specializations out of two different fields instead of one.

[oslecamo]

Also, is this assuming a dictionary definition of organic creature (since dnd nomenclature is usually separates them by the terms "corporatecorporeal living" while many undead creatures can count as organic. Some constructs would also count as organic.

Undeads and constructs may look like organic, but considering their production proccess results in materials that no bacteria can survive in and in which toxins and enzymes and whatnot have zero reaction, they're clearly not organic anymore. Plus the bit where a destroyed undead can't be re-animated again.

Fine by me though you may want to clarify somewhere that all references to organic creatures is another way to say corporeal living creature or otherwise define it since it isn't obvious. Many undead creatures have fast healing, carry diseases, have abilities that feel very organic such as a dangerous digestion system and even the Atropal was designed with Regeneration for some reason. Some constructs can be built out of plants and may even do stuff like actual photosynthesis.

Inevitables have Fast Healing and they're explicitly mass produced metal robots. And one of the basic undead/construct traits is that they count as objects for Fort effects.
But ok added living bit to make it crystal clear.

You can apply multiple operations in a single creature, but no more than one of each kind (including not being able to perform an operation on a subject that is already under effect from that operation by somebody else).

Looks good though maybe it should not apply to Plastic Surgery. But that's only from a logical standpoint. You could of course revert the Plastic Surgery operation to put another one but it is a bit weird that you'd have to return to your previous face before getting another one.

You mean actors never wash their faces or take off their clothes and just keep piling up make-up and garments layer over layer?

Similarly when you go to a fancy hair stylist, first thing to do is washing and untangling your hair.

Good fixes. Maybe the class would also benefit from class-specific feats, such as a "Double Degree/Double Doctorate" feat that allows a Support Staff to pick specializations out of two different fields instead of one.

Was wondering when somebody would ask that. Done.

[CKirk]

Super Arcanist lists as its pre-reqs: At least one level of Real Pilot and Arcane Pilot
Should probably be: At least one level of Super Pilot and Arcane Pilot

[Anomander]

Something I'm wondering, should the buff on Alert/Invincible still have them auto-apply against Defensive weapons when they are not used "defensively". Just attacking with it as you would any other weapon.

As for the cohorts/followers/similars being denied as well, it is mechanically all right as long as it applies as well to enemy mooks since Alert/Invincible by default were already better for enemies than PCs since the bosses often have their mooks trigger the Alert/Invincible for them so it was only fair-game that the PCs could use their own.

[oslecamo]

Super Arcanist lists as its pre-reqs: At least one level of Real Pilot and Arcane Pilot
Should probably be: At least one level of Super Pilot and Arcane Pilot

Fixed, thanks!

Something I'm wondering, should the buff on Alert/Invincible still have them auto-apply against Defensive weapons when they are not used "defensively". Just attacking with it as you would any other weapon.

Added clause for that.

As for the cohorts/followers/similars being denied as well, it is mechanically all right as long as it applies as well to enemy mooks since Alert/Invincible by default were already better for enemies than PCs since the bosses often have their mooks trigger the Alert/Invincible for them so it was only fair-game that the PCs could use their own.

Depends on whetever said minions are granted by abilities/feats or not. The party by definition has multiple members so they can still peel off Alert/Invincibility by focus fire.

[Anomander]

Something that may be worth nothing about those spellcasting dual progression feats;

Unlike regular dual progression feats, those benefit only the spellcasting itself. Meaning the pilot casting classes give no advantages to their paired pilot class that any other class wouldn't grant.
As for the casting itself, unlike martial progression from multiclassing, this one actually progresses the casting rather than give virtual progression as some monster classes do (you progress the casting, but do not get any new known spells and such). So it progresses casting better from multiclassing than martial abilities do.
So at the cost of a feat and one class level, you can just about max your martial ability and get significant spellcasting on top. Two if you need more than buffing spells and want regular mecha stats.

Also, those feats granting progression off Real/Super pilot levels in a gestalt/similar means they can manipulate the progression by having super/real pilot levels on one side and a casting-progressing prestige class every odd super/real pilot level to get maximum pilot casting progression as well.

Either way it would probably be a good idea to limit half the levels to virtually progress the casting instead of real progress.

Also, many of your new feats are Pilot feats but do not have a pilot-class requirement unlike most of the others, in case it wasn't intended.
The child soldier trait also isn't available to Moon Vanguards, though it is in a different campaign setting. Unless that was intended, considering it is currently including just about every pilot base classes, it could follow suit with most of the feats and have Any Pilot Class as the requirement.

[oslecamo]

Something that may be worth nothing about those spellcasting dual progression feats;

Unlike regular dual progression feats, those benefit only the spellcasting itself. Meaning the pilot casting classes give no advantages to their paired pilot class that any other class wouldn't grant.
As for the casting itself, unlike martial progression from multiclassing, this one actually progresses the casting rather than give virtual progression as some monster classes do (you progress the casting, but do not get any new known spells and such). So it progresses casting better from multiclassing than martial abilities do.
So at the cost of a feat and one class level, you can just about max your martial ability and get significant spellcasting on top. Two if you need more than buffing spells and want regular mecha stats.

Well if you like my pseudo-casting that much I'll gladly change the feats to work that way.

Also, those feats granting progression off Real/Super pilot levels in a gestalt/similar means they can manipulate the progression by having super/real pilot levels on one side and a casting-progressing prestige class every odd super/real pilot level to get maximum pilot casting progression as well.

Either way it would probably be a good idea to limit half the levels to virtually progress the casting instead of real progress.

That's an issue with gestalt itself and would happen with regular prcs if you're willing to allow cheesy readings like that.

Also, many of your new feats are Pilot feats but do not have a pilot-class requirement unlike most of the others, in case it wasn't intended.

Meh, just decided it wasn't worth the effort to be honest. Some of those don't work at all unless you have a mecha. And if somebody else from another campaign wants to use Terrain mastery or Hug Cover for a non-pilot class and their DM approves, sure go ahead, I'm not going to send my ninja squad to silence them because of it.

The child soldier trait also isn't available to Moon Vanguards, though it is in a different campaign setting. Unless that was intended, considering it is currently including just about every pilot base classes, it could follow suit with most of the feats and have Any Pilot Class as the requirement.

Now that you mention it, since I'm using Reimu for most Moon Vanguard pics it's only fair I give her the option of being an orphan child soldier living in poverty because she spends all her loot on booze doesn't know any better.

[CKirk]

As written, maneuvers that let you fire weapons (like Iron Blow from Into the Danger Zone) seem to let you fire heavy weapons with them as a standard action. Is that intended behavior? If not, they should probably read 'Initiation Action: Same as weapon'

[Anomander]

@CKirk: It is intended. I asked that question long ago.

Mega Minion: Impossible to max since it requires 14 picks and you only get 13. And even then you'd spend a big chunk of all your class abilities to get the minions. At a lower level than the machine mistress, too. Interestingly, you technically can have Machine Mistress on the other side of the gestalt for about double the minions. Could be fun.

Factory Bases: Those that produce arsenal accessories and such... how do they work? Can't you technically get those for free when changing arsenal anyway? Everyone's limited by what the mecha can equip anyway, not by what's available. What's the point?

We Can Rebuild Them: Corpse must be at least 1 min fresh to use the ability, but it takes at least an hour of work. If it means that it has to be 1 minute fresh before you start working on it... then how is the work period handled? Does it keep rotting further while you're taking breaks? Because odds are when you get the corpse you're more or less starting working close to where the dude died. Do you have to stay there for up to 12 hours with everyone twiddling their fingers in the meantime or can you work on the body while moving around? If another fight starts and your work gets interrupted, does it ruin the entire process? Not to mention the corpse that's been dead for much more than a minute by then.

Drugs: Fixer seems meant to apply against drugs used separately down to 1 max hp each rather than reduce all max dmg from every drugs injected down to 1, altogether. The drugs affect the pilots (and organic mechas like the Eisnt thingies, maybe) so are some of the effects not as significant during mecha fights? Healing effects only heal the pilot, not the mecha and stuff like Painkiller doesn't apply for the mecha, only the pilot. Which means that your class abilities help a pilot not get killed by crits, I suppose, which means you're not very useful unless to help mecha-less pilots not die so fast, which delays the inevitable. Unless the rest of your party are all Einst, in which case everyone loves your ass.

Well if you like my pseudo-casting that much I'll gladly change the feats to work that way.

Not really but at least it isn't normal casting.

[oslecamo]

@CKirk: It is intended. I asked that question long ago.

Correct, thanks.

Mega Minion: Impossible to max since it requires 14 picks and you only get 13. And even then you'd spend a big chunk of all your class abilities to get the minions. At a lower level than the machine mistress, too. Interestingly, you technically can have Machine Mistress on the other side of the gestalt for about double the minions. Could be fun.

The new 20th level Support Staff capstone should take care of allowing full Mega Minion. Progression gets a bit ahead of Machine Mistress now and then yes, but on the other hand you don't get the super prototype with discounts either. Gestalting with actual Machine Mistress sounds a bit .

Factory Bases: Those that produce arsenal accessories and such... how do they work? Can't you technically get those for free when changing arsenal anyway? Everyone's limited by what the mecha can equip anyway, not by what's available. What's the point?

My idea was that the base factory units are limited to the Arsenal the same Support Staff can produce, since each support staff's blueprints have their own personal quirks and result in compatibility problems for the arsenal supplied by the parent organization. Clarified.

We Can Rebuild Them: Corpse must be at least 1 min fresh to use the ability, but it takes at least an hour of work. If it means that it has to be 1 minute fresh before you start working on it... then how is the work period handled? Does it keep rotting further while you're taking breaks? Because odds are when you get the corpse you're more or less starting working close to where the dude died. Do you have to stay there for up to 12 hours with everyone twiddling their fingers in the meantime or can you work on the body while moving around? If another fight starts and your work gets interrupted, does it ruin the entire process? Not to mention the corpse that's been dead for much more than a minute by then.

Added extra clauses, the first step of the process is stopping body rot by chemical bath/cryo chamber that also allows for pausing and resuming, plus being carried inside a battleship.

Drugs: Fixer seems meant to apply against drugs used separately down to 1 max hp each rather than reduce all max dmg from every drugs injected down to 1, altogether.

Correct, multiple drugs will need multiple Fixer uses.

The drugs affect the pilots (and organic mechas like the Eisnt thingies, maybe) so are some of the effects not as significant during mecha fights? Healing effects only heal the pilot, not the mecha and stuff like Painkiller doesn't apply for the mecha, only the pilot. Which means that your class abilities help a pilot not get killed by crits, I suppose, which means you're not very useful unless to help mecha-less pilots not die so fast, which delays the inevitable. Unless the rest of your party are all Einst, in which case everyone loves your ass.

Correct again.

Well if you like my pseudo-casting that much I'll gladly change the feats to work that way.

Not really but at least it isn't normal casting.

[CKirk]

Anomander, I've noticed that mecha engineer prototypes have better AC bonuses than any equivalent reals (this is especially noticeable in the case of the Astelion at tier IV, which not only has worse armor than an equivalent Dynamic Frame at level of acquisition, is the same or worse in every way aside from move speed). Could I please get your reasoning for this?

To provide some numbers, reals (aside from generics) universally have the same net AC (+/-1) from dodge and nat armor at a given tier, scaling up at slightly less than 1/level (aside from the jump between grades 1 and 2, real grades increase AC by alternating 4 and 2). Specific values are in the table below:

Arsenal Tier	|Real Net Dodge+Nat Armor AC	|Generic Net Dodge+Nat Armor AC	|Prototype Net Dodge+Nat Armor AC
I	|2	|0	|4
II	|8	|6	|9
III	|10	|8	|11
IV	|14	|10	|16
V	|16	|14	|22
VI	|20	|18	|27
VII	|22	|20	|31

As you can see, Prototypes consistently have the highest AC bonus, with a dramatic increase at tier V. Also noticeable on the table is that Generic reals have generally lower numbers. Perhaps to encourage specific real use?

Basically, I'm just really confused why the mecha engineer gets better AC than equivalent reals. If this isn't intentional, a change to bring the numbers more in line would be appreciated (perhaps bringing the scaling down to 1/level from 1.5/level net, which would, aside from at tier 1, put prototype AC much closer to real AC at level of acquisition)

[Anomander]

Thank you for notifying me. I do not recall exactly how I came up with that AC progression back when I first made the frames but I do remember the numbers fitting back then. Perhaps they changed since then and I didn't notice or I wasn't as thorough with the AC progression comparison as I thought. They were meant to be in the same waters.

I'm changing the frames to these rates effective immediately:

(click to show/hide)

Tough
Nat Armor: 2 base + 1 per class level.
Dodge: 0

Balanced
Nat Armor: 1 base +½ per class level, rounded up.
Dodge: 1 base +½ per class level, rounded down.

Dynamic
Nat Armor: 0
Dodge: 2 base +1 per class level.

They'll begin with an AC sum of 3, compared to 0 to 3 for the Reals and 2 to 6 for the Supers but their DR isn't as high as most of those models, which is mostly at 5. Most 1st tier Real models also have access to a good maneuverability flight by default, which helps.

[oslecamo]

Been somewhat busy and no time to update my D&D stuff but some blatant things just need to be pointed out.

Most 1st tier Real models also have access to a good maneuverability flight by default, which helps.

Here are the tier 1 reals that have flight speed at good maneuverability.

Lion: 0 DR, 0 Nat Armor, 1 DR, 0 Dodge, 1 hardpoint.
Barrelion: +5 Nat Armor, 5 DR, -3 Dodge, 1 hardpoint, and 50 energy.
R1 (fighter mode): 0 Nat Armor, 5 DR, 2 dodge, 3 hardpoints but can only use in-built gatlings and giant revolvers, all non-rending non-power weapons.
Meggilot: +1 Nat armor, 0 DR, +2 Dodge, 2 Hardpoints. And 75 energy.

Anomander's uber class meanwhile throws 4 Hardpoints minimum to further increase its AC advantage or whatever it feel like. Sure, it technically loses one if it is hit by a crit. But the tier 1 Real Robots most probably lose all their arsenal when hit with a crit by virtue of dropping to 0 HP and exploding. The Barrelion may be tanky enough to survive, but again, only 1 hardpoint and 0 arsenal space.

[Anomander]

A crit doesn't deal extra damage to a mecha, it deals it to the pilot so it wouldn't destroy a real robot any faster. Two of those have DR 5 to help them take hits better. The pilot also has access to a Spirit, so he can Alert out of attacks anyway and gets a bonus feat that can be used on Regen to spam it every round.
Flight speed with good maneuverability is a Tier 3 arsenal accessory.
They all come with their own weapons while the mecha prototype has access to its prototype weapon and arsenal weapons only for which it must pay extra to remove the volatile effect.

@CKirk: Since I'm currently on it, might as well implement some changes I've had in mind. The engineer no longer acquires maneuvers by default but now gets a breakthrough every level.
Its breakthroughs have a maneuver learning option that can be equipped by a Mecha Prototype using arsenal space and a hardpoint per stance.
Your player may well keep the previous system if he prefers and you do not mind. Especially if his character is already on par with the others, including the AC nerf.

[oslecamo]

A crit doesn't deal extra damage to a mecha, it deals it to the pilot so it wouldn't destroy a real robot any faster.

Despite being a machine, mechas are vulnerable to critical hits due to having complex internal structures.

Damage taken by the mecha is absorbed by the mecha's own HP, never by the pilot, unless the attack was a sucessfull critical hit. In that case, the pilot takes the amount of damage that would have been dealt if not for the critical hit, on top of the mecha taking the critical damage.

My mechas have been vulnerable to  crits since pretty much the start.

And with that I conclude the rest of your post is just more atomic banana logic and I won't waste another second with this issue.

EDIT: But as a reminder, mechas taking extra damage from criticals is something that already happened in the first battle of the mecha campaign in this very forums that may very well literally be the first game anyone played with this sytem.

But anomander's atomic banana logic simply trumps all.

[Anomander]

Having a bad day or something? When you make a mistake I don't jump on you guns blazing over it.
My bad for that mistake. I didn't suffer from one so the part about it applying to the pilot is what stuck and I should have checked. That considered, the cit-disabling was to be a penalty similar to volatile so it will be subject to it on the same level,  sharing the 50% chance to be rendered useless when receiving damage and the crit thing will automatically do so since you cannot really roll a 20 when using one.