General Discussion and Suggestions

[oslecamo]

Having a bad day or something? When you make a mistake I don't jump on you guns blazing over it.
My bad for that mistake. I didn't suffer from one so the part about it applying to the pilot is what stuck and I should have checked.

Having a really bad day? Because your memory keeps failing and you can't be bothered to check.

[Anomander]

Mao is immune to crits. She's a construct.
Part of having every level in fusion golem. Day's been awesome, still. Hope tomorrow is better for you and you get civil again. Not sure why you're getting worked up over so little. Sorry if I triggered something sensitive. 

[ketaro]

-Any special senses/radars granted by Arsenal Options/Super Pilot upgrades/Einst/Peace Princess/Support Staff work in space, otherwise they don't. No exceptions allowed, no matter how specific.

How does that work? The void of space prevents Blindsense, Blindsight, True Seeing, See Invis, every Detect spell, Telepathy, Mindsight, Lifesense, Low-light Vision, Darkvision, Tremorsense(when sitting on the outside of a spaceship/station/asteroid), etc etc etc?

Really? Is normal human vision literally the only thing allowed in space that isn't an option out of SRWD20?

[CKirk]

Should the Super Robot 'Special Attack' upgrade be able to apply to spells, to give Arcane Pilots a reason to take it?

Also: How is a GM supposed to stop Strike+Soul+Squad Breaker? It applies absurd damage to basically the entire board. If the player wins init, the bad guys can't even use spirits to stop it.

Edit: Also, if Strike applies to all attacks in a maneuver, should it also apply to all attacks in an iterative attack routine?

[oslecamo]

-Any special senses/radars granted by Arsenal Options/Super Pilot upgrades/Einst/Peace Princess/Support Staff work in space, otherwise they don't. No exceptions allowed, no matter how specific.

How does that work? The void of space prevents Blindsense, Blindsight, True Seeing, See Invis, every Detect spell, Telepathy, Mindsight, Lifesense, Low-light Vision, Darkvision, Tremorsense(when sitting on the outside of a spaceship/station/asteroid), etc etc etc?

Really? Is normal human vision literally the only thing allowed in space that isn't an option out of SRWD20?

That's the idea pretty much. Space is mysterious and mostly unknown, great place for hiding when you don't want to be found. Also allowes secret bases inside asteroids and smuggling and whatnot.

Should the Super Robot 'Special Attack' upgrade be able to apply to spells, to give Arcane Pilots a reason to take it?

Fair enough, done.

Also: How is a GM supposed to stop Strike+Soul+Squad Breaker? It applies absurd damage to basically the entire board. If the player wins init, the bad guys can't even use spirits to stop it.

-With Spirit Regen you can easily keep Alert up all the time as a Real Robot or Invulnerability as a Super Robot with some picks of Soul of the Machine.
-Defend and Defensive Support can both be used even if you're flat-footed.
-Make sure your army is not all standing out in the open simultaneously.
-Make sure your army is moving around inside battleships that will absorb eat the nova strike.

Edit: Also, if Strike applies to all attacks in a maneuver, should it also apply to all attacks in an iterative attack routine?

No, only if the attacks are simultaneous, which usually only happens with multi-target stuff.

Also applied the changes that had been agreed on the temporary forums.

[Raineh Daze]

I think that's a bizarre standard to apply to senses.

Just stop them from being amplified in space (though honestly darkvision and see invisibility shouldn't turn off just because "space", that's cheap) rather than random sensory deprivation.

Particularly darkvision shouldn't be negated given its near-ubiquity.

[YuweaCurtis]

Sorry if this has already been asked, but are the size super upgrades permanent or can it change? I'm guessing the former but had to be sure.

[ketaro]

I think that's a bizarre standard to apply to senses.

Just stop them from being amplified in space (though honestly darkvision and see invisibility shouldn't turn off just because "space", that's cheap) rather than random sensory deprivation.

Particularly darkvision shouldn't be negated given its near-ubiquity.

Well.......I can't say I would agree with Os on this one, but I guess I can understand where he's going with that answer. I guess it's kinda like putting that d&d fantasy magic spin on the whole empty void of space thing. Though that's kind of more like giving all of space the qualities of a black hole.

[Raineh Daze]

Space is also quite well lit when you don't have entire planets in the way. When you do, I don't see why darkvision would be useless.

It only has an effective range of 20MU anyway, if I'm converting right AND you have 120' darkvision.

[ketaro]

Though most people have only 60ft darkvision. And you're right. So darkvision would already be useless in space. Regular vision would be the most useful non-special sense.

[Raineh Daze]

My point is that "It's dark!" shouldn't hold water if it's right in front of you.

[oslecamo]

Sorry if this has already been asked, but are the size super upgrades permanent or can it change? I'm guessing the former but had to be sure.

Permanent, but Transform has a clause to allow you to change sizes if you take both upgrades.

My point is that "It's dark!" shouldn't hold water if it's right in front of you.

-The only signal that can go through space are lightwaves due to the fact they produce their own medium to move thanks to their electromagnetic field.
-Darkvision however specifically doesn't give a single shit about lightwaves.  We're not sure what it is, but we know it's completely independent from lightwaves since darkvision works in places without a single photon to sink your eyes on. 
-Thus, the vacuum of space doesn't give a single shit about darkvision either. Otherwise it wouldn't be vacuum and all the catgirls die. And catgirls are non-negotiable.

[YuweaCurtis]

So I could change size without changing form? Cause that's all I'm looking for.

[Raineh Daze]

Eh, if we go back to 2E and various extra-game materials, darkvision is more thermal imaging than anything else. No reason it wouldn't work in space, as it's still operating on photons.

And if we're going to get really technical, there's a a very dilute gaseous vapour in space and any particle emissions are going to be more effective.

[Raineh Daze]

From the feats thread:

You gain Telepathy 20 mu plus 5 feet per Pilot level

Mixed scales.

[oslecamo]

So I could change size without changing form? Cause that's all I'm looking for.

Added Irregular Scale upgrade option.

Eh, if we go back to 2E and various extra-game materials, darkvision is more thermal imaging than anything else. No reason it wouldn't work in space, as it's still operating on photons.

2e didn't have darkvision, it had infravision which specifically didn't work in cold stuff. Either way that was 2e, it's not my priority making this system compatible with older editions. Or what, should I make THACO progressions for everything? Non-weapon proficiencies?

And if we're going to get really technical, there's a a very dilute gaseous vapour in space and any particle emissions are going to be more effective.

What part of "space vacuum is good enough so that planets/comets/stars keep stable orbits for millions of years" didn't you understand?

Either way I would like to be there a reason for players to pick electronic sensors once in a blue moon (aka fighting in space instead of land/atmosphere/water), otherwise it's "screw radars, I have imbasight trollolol" time all the time.

From the feats thread:

You gain Telepathy 20 mu plus 5 feet per Pilot level

Mixed scales.

Fixed, thanks.

[SorO_Lost]

-The only signal that can go through space are lightwaves due to the fact they produce their own medium to move thanks to their electromagnetic field.

Actually just about anything can be sent through space. For example, carrier pigeons can be thrown from the moon and hit a base on Neptune if you wanted.

Really all forms of radiation tends to work just fine, mass-less or not, so for example you can still see a human's bioluminescence, or use a thermometer to track heat, or put water in a glass chamber full of wires as a crude gravity sensor. Through Darkvision allows you to see even in a true vacuum at absolute zero, ie no stray photons or even atomic movement, but whatevs.

What part of "space vacuum is good enough so that planets/comets/stars keep stable orbits for millions of years" didn't you understand?

I'm not astrophysicist but I'm pretty sure it is balance of gravitational forces and momentum. Like satellites are technically in a state of constantly falling at a controlled rate, they simultaneously chase after Earth's gravitational field as it hurls around Sol while centripetal forces generated by spinning around the Earth's gravitational field are held as close to a near match. That sound about right? I think it is.

Either way I would like to be there a reason for players to pick electronic sensors once in a blue moon (aka fighting in space instead of land/atmosphere/water), otherwise it's "screw radars, I have imbasight trollolol" time all the time.

Blue moon?

Throwing an Elf into a Pilot's seat gives him a 60mu range but imposes up to a -6 penalty to Spot Checks to do so and it's still subject to illusions & fog. Spend one Hardpoint and you can flawlessly detect anyone in 60mu off the lowest Arsenal upgrade and you get a sweet +1 to damage rolls too. Heck by the second level of Arsenal you start ignoring walls too, I'd think it's pretty hard to have a hidden asteroid base if the doorway pings everyone's scanners once they are within 120mu or less.

Point being, the upgrades are strictly better than what D&D offers anyway. Of course someone is going to want them.

[Archon]

Blue moon?

A blue moon is when you have two full moons in the same month, I.E. A very rare occurrence.

[Fzzr]

Space is a near-absolute void; it's only hard to see things because in space scale everything is so very far away.

There's no reason why a natural or or extraordinary sense of the pilot should impeded by space, but nor should they be scaled up with the mecha by default. They still just come from the eyes/senses of the pilot. The one exception I can think of is if the mecha has systems to channel such abilities.

So, I propose that special senses *do* work, but without mecha scaling applied by default. Thus a 60ft darkvision is now a 10mu one. Extraordinary senses can be scaled to mecha by some means within the system. Perhaps magic-based mecha get that by default? A one-point Super Upgrade, sorta like Amplifier? Whatever makes sense. Still a benefit, but not nearly as much. Radars and the like are still almost always better than extending such senses.

Edited for clarity on paragraph 3



Also hi, I managed to activate my MMB account =D

[SorO_Lost]

A blue moon is when you have two full moons in the same month, I.E. A very rare occurrence.

I know what he meant, and my point was it's not a rare occurrence due to the mechanical superiority of it.

In a nut shell, Osl's homebrew has two major deals to it. First is the easy in plain sight thing of being horribly borked compared to D&D's scale but the often uncaught second thing is his newer stuff is even more insane than his older stuff. The sensors are fairly new, only a couple of things have come out after them, so right now they are some of the most powerful options you can take. Like for example if you're level 14 you have 56 upgrade points or for 0.01% of your choices you can pick up +3d6~+4d6 Sneak Attack and a form of extended Blindsight and he's out to nerf every form of senses out there making them a forced mandatory option "just in case" you're not picking his new favorite stuff.

Also hi, I managed to activate my MMB account =D

Sup, welcome to MMF (or maybe MMX?).