Author Topic: Gishing theory: proposing a different way for min-maxing  (Read 11498 times)

Offline SorO_Lost

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Re: Gishing theory: proposing a different way for min-maxing
« Reply #20 on: September 17, 2012, 05:03:13 PM »
And damn near everything else.

If you own a Valorous enhanced Battleaxe of the Bull you can cast Greater Arcane Fusion(bite of the werebear, heroics) and obtain the entire Shock Trooper line. Something like Slippers of Battle Dancing ditches the need for Strength as well. Nothing like Cha to Attack/Damage, THF'ing Power Attack, and Shock Troopering your entire BAB away with at least x2 damage.

Favored of the Martyr and the Shriver can be used to obtain almost full immunity to damage as well.

So you've got a decent kick starter into ubercharger and lines of text that tell you not to care what you're HP or AC is and we haven't even started discussing class levels yet.

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Neraphim huh? Totally Dragon material, it only half-counts but nice find.

Offline sirpercival

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Re: Gishing theory: proposing a different way for min-maxing
« Reply #21 on: September 17, 2012, 05:29:04 PM »
Neraphim huh? Totally Dragon material, it only half-counts but nice find.
Neraph is in the Planar Handbook.
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Offline Unbeliever

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Re: Gishing theory: proposing a different way for min-maxing
« Reply #22 on: September 17, 2012, 05:51:12 PM »
These builds always seem to forget Wraith Strike.
Wraithstrike is (a) awesome and (b) easy mode.  Not that I disagree with the assessment, though -- Wraithstrike, like Divine Power, gives you a lot of other ways to build a gish than the "intended" Eldritch Knight, etc. ones.  The one mark against Wraithstrike is that there are potentially quite good things to do with your swift/immediate actions.  Although you could persist it just as easily as you could Divine Power.

And damn near everything else.

If you own a Valorous enhanced Battleaxe of the Bull you can cast Greater Arcane Fusion(bite of the werebear, heroics) and obtain the entire Shock Trooper line. Something like Slippers of Battle Dancing ditches the need for Strength as well. Nothing like Cha to Attack/Damage, THF'ing Power Attack, and Shock Troopering your entire BAB away with at least x2 damage.

Favored of the Martyr and the Shriver can be used to obtain almost full immunity to damage as well.

So you've got a decent kick starter into ubercharger and lines of text that tell you not to care what you're HP or AC is and we haven't even started discussing class levels yet.
...
I don't really have a dog in the fight of this thread, except to say that I'm not seeing a whole lot of new ground treaded in the OP.  Greater Arcane Fusion and the Shriver are not de rigeur by any means, though.  The latter, perhaps like persistent Wraithstrike, tends to require excellent book-dodging skills. 

Offline dipolartech

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Re: Gishing theory: proposing a different way for min-maxing
« Reply #23 on: September 17, 2012, 09:48:10 PM »
Neraphim the frog people?

Offline Maat Mons

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Re: Gishing theory: proposing a different way for min-maxing
« Reply #24 on: September 17, 2012, 10:01:47 PM »
Neraphim are the toad people.  Grippli (Dragon 324, p84) are the frog people. 

Offline SorO_Lost

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Re: Gishing theory: proposing a different way for min-maxing
« Reply #25 on: September 18, 2012, 08:15:44 AM »
Ooooohh...

Offline dipolartech

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Re: Gishing theory: proposing a different way for min-maxing
« Reply #26 on: September 18, 2012, 12:47:33 PM »
Aaahhhh, ribbit... thanks for the correction.

Offline awaken_D_M_golem

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Re: Gishing theory: proposing a different way for min-maxing
« Reply #27 on: September 18, 2012, 07:25:35 PM »
Neraphim are the toad people.  Grippli (Dragon 324, p84) are the frog people.

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Offline Mithril Leaf

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Re: Gishing theory: proposing a different way for min-maxing
« Reply #28 on: September 19, 2012, 01:15:48 AM »
Why not just be an Incantrix with Arcane Disciple (War)? Persist your Draconic Polymorph, Bite of the Werebear, Wraithstrike, and Divine Power. Seems like a lot easier then all this silly gish theory stuff   :tongue

Offline Wiggins

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Re: Gishing theory: proposing a different way for min-maxing
« Reply #29 on: September 19, 2012, 04:34:32 AM »
What's the earliest you can do that, and how high should your Intelligence, Wisdom and Spellcraft be to do it reliably without waste?

Offline Mithril Leaf

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Re: Gishing theory: proposing a different way for min-maxing
« Reply #30 on: September 19, 2012, 11:58:11 PM »
13 for Bite of the werebear, the rest can be done at level 9. Level 11 is where it's at it's best by comparison though. Requires Wisdom of 14, Spellcraft and Intelligence as high as they can be.

Offline Wiggins

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Re: Gishing theory: proposing a different way for min-maxing
« Reply #31 on: September 20, 2012, 07:08:41 AM »
Cool, but you just know you'd burn through a few rolls a bit more often than is comfortable; Would taking a level of Exemplar for Skill Mastery (Spellcraft) be worth it?

Dwarf
Focused Specialist Wizard 5, Incantatrix 3, Dragonslayer 1, Runesmith 1, Master Specialist 1, Exemplar 1

Specialise Transmutation, remember not to drop Evocation
1 Flaw, or none if Magical Locations are available (for Otyugh Hole)

Iron Will, Arcane Disciple [War], Scribe Scroll, Spell Focus [Transmutation], Extend Spell, Persistent Spell, Dodge, Arcane Strike, Skill Focus [Spellcraft], Knowledge Devotion

Fox's Cunning
Owl's Wisdom
Eagle's Splendor
Heroics         
Wraithstrike            
Mirror Move
Vigor      
Divine Power
Draconic Polymorph   
Bite of the Weretiger      

Seems good to me :)

Unfortunately, walk through an Anti-Magic Field or get hit by a barrage of Dispels, and you're just effectively a Wizard 11/Fighter 1 in Heavy Armour with no Arcane Spell Failure, who has used up all or most of his 2nd Level Spells and a 4th, a 5th and a 6th

Which for a Wizard seems pretty awesome to me!