Author Topic: Is there a way to make Profession (Executioner) viable in combat?  (Read 9937 times)

Offline 123456789blaaa

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Is there a way to make Profession (Executioner) viable in combat?
« on: September 16, 2012, 02:05:12 PM »
I was browsing Gitp recently and I found this post by Shurikvch:

Quote
"Headsman’s Axe: When specially sharpened and held with the proper technique, a greataxe (or a greatsword) can serve the executioner as the instrument of execution. The condemned is restrained, with the neck vulnerable to the strike readied by the executioner. On a successful Profession (executioner) check, the condemned dies instantly. If the executioner fails the attempt, the headsman’s axe delivers a coup de grace against the condemned

I wouldn't be call skill which by RAW allow you to one-shot Tarrasque "useless". "

It's from the BOVD pg.40. The bolded part is very interesting. Unfortunately the victim needs to be restrained with "the neck vulnerable to the strike readied by the executioner" . Does anyone have any ideas as to how to do this in combat?
Please, call me Count :).

Offline Solo

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Re: Is there a way to make Profession (Executioner) viable in combat?
« Reply #1 on: September 16, 2012, 02:07:30 PM »
Suggestion for some kinky sex.
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Offline betrayor

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Re: Is there a way to make Profession (Executioner) viable in combat?
« Reply #2 on: September 16, 2012, 02:09:35 PM »
I was browsing Gitp recently and I found this post by Shurikvch:

Quote
"Headsman’s Axe: When specially sharpened and held with the proper technique, a greataxe (or a greatsword) can serve the executioner as the instrument of execution. The condemned is restrained, with the neck vulnerable to the strike readied by the executioner. On a successful Profession (executioner) check, the condemned dies instantly. If the executioner fails the attempt, the headsman’s axe delivers a coup de grace against the condemned

I wouldn't be call skill which by RAW allow you to one-shot Tarrasque "useless". "

It's from the BOVD pg.40. The bolded part is very interesting. Unfortunately the victim needs to be restrained with "the neck vulnerable to the strike readied by the executioner" . Does anyone have any ideas as to how to do this in combat?
I would say the if he is helpless(the condition) and subject to critical hit(ie not an undead or an elemental or so)
then you could use it.......

Offline carnivore

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Re: Is there a way to make Profession (Executioner) viable in combat?
« Reply #3 on: September 16, 2012, 02:49:38 PM »
It's from the BOVD pg.40. The bolded part is very interesting. Unfortunately the victim needs to be restrained with "the neck vulnerable to the strike readied by the executioner" . Does anyone have any ideas as to how to do this in combat?


notice:

Quote from: BOVD,p39
EXECUTION EQUIPMENT
Execution of prisoners, far from light and hope of rescue, is something all creatures fear when venturing into realms where vengeance or brute malice holds sway. Despicable overlords and despotic states alike enjoy particularly cruel forms of execution, deriding even the idea of lesser penalties. And even an otherwise enlightened society may find that vengeance is more important to it than reformation of the convicted. And so the executioner’s profession never lacks for work. The executioner seeks death for the condemned with a swift stroke. Sometimes, death by torture is the command given to the executioner, but in such a case he will often remand the client to a torturer to carry out the sentence. However, many execution devices are also extraordinarily painful for those destined to feel their cruel, final embrace.

RULES OF EXECUTION
The condemned must first be secured by being tied in place, pinned in a grapple, or successfully restrained in a stationary execution device. If restrained in an execution device, the condemned can attempt to make a Escape Artist check every round against the DC noted in Table 3–2, unless magically held or otherwise helpless. If grappled, the condemned can attempt to break the grapple normally.
Once the victim is secure, the executioner can attempt the chosen method of execution. The executioner makes a Profession (executioner) check against the DC given for the device on Table 3–2. If the check is successful, the condemned is slain according to the nature of the device. If the executioner fails, the execution is botched, and the executioner can make another check the following round. Botched attempts deal the damage noted for the device, so the condemned may be killed even if the executioner botches the attempt. Prideful executioners—which includes most of them—take it as a personal point of dishonor if they kill the condemned on a botched execution.
Execution Devices as Weapons: Some execution devices, such as headsman’s axes, make adequate melee weapons. In melee, such an item deals normal damage for an item of its kind (such as a greataxe) and cannot kill instantly. Most other devices of execution cannot be used in melee.
Masterwork Devices: Masterwork execution devices provide a +1 circumstance bonus on the executioner’s Profession(executioner) check. They cost twice as much as the versions given in Table 3–2.

someone else must Grapple them ....then you can deliver the Execution blow with the Headsmans Axe using the Profession(Executioner) Skill

 :D

Offline betrayor

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Re: Is there a way to make Profession (Executioner) viable in combat?
« Reply #4 on: September 16, 2012, 02:54:32 PM »
It's from the BOVD pg.40. The bolded part is very interesting. Unfortunately the victim needs to be restrained with "the neck vulnerable to the strike readied by the executioner" . Does anyone have any ideas as to how to do this in combat?


notice:

Quote from: BOVD,p39
EXECUTION EQUIPMENT
Execution of prisoners, far from light and hope of rescue, is something all creatures fear when venturing into realms where vengeance or brute malice holds sway. Despicable overlords and despotic states alike enjoy particularly cruel forms of execution, deriding even the idea of lesser penalties. And even an otherwise enlightened society may find that vengeance is more important to it than reformation of the convicted. And so the executioner’s profession never lacks for work. The executioner seeks death for the condemned with a swift stroke. Sometimes, death by torture is the command given to the executioner, but in such a case he will often remand the client to a torturer to carry out the sentence. However, many execution devices are also extraordinarily painful for those destined to feel their cruel, final embrace.

RULES OF EXECUTION
The condemned must first be secured by being tied in place, pinned in a grapple, or successfully restrained in a stationary execution device. If restrained in an execution device, the condemned can attempt to make a Escape Artist check every round against the DC noted in Table 3–2, unless magically held or otherwise helpless. If grappled, the condemned can attempt to break the grapple normally.
Once the victim is secure, the executioner can attempt the chosen method of execution. The executioner makes a Profession (executioner) check against the DC given for the device on Table 3–2. If the check is successful, the condemned is slain according to the nature of the device. If the executioner fails, the execution is botched, and the executioner can make another check the following round. Botched attempts deal the damage noted for the device, so the condemned may be killed even if the executioner botches the attempt. Prideful executioners—which includes most of them—take it as a personal point of dishonor if they kill the condemned on a botched execution.
Execution Devices as Weapons: Some execution devices, such as headsman’s axes, make adequate melee weapons. In melee, such an item deals normal damage for an item of its kind (such as a greataxe) and cannot kill instantly. Most other devices of execution cannot be used in melee.
Masterwork Devices: Masterwork execution devices provide a +1 circumstance bonus on the executioner’s Profession(executioner) check. They cost twice as much as the versions given in Table 3–2.

someone else must Grapple them ....then you can deliver the Execution blow with the Headsmans Axe using the Profession(Executioner) Skill

 :D
If you are a druid have your bear grapple him.....

Offline Maat Mons

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Re: Is there a way to make Profession (Executioner) viable in combat?
« Reply #5 on: September 16, 2012, 02:59:13 PM »
A justiciar's improved hog-tie ability would probably also work.  It'd be nice if the text said what sort of action executing someone with a headsman's axe is. 

Offline awaken_D_M_golem

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Re: Is there a way to make Profession (Executioner) viable in combat?
« Reply #6 on: September 16, 2012, 03:37:33 PM »
Very interesting.

dude 1: Grapple. Pin.
dude 2: Chop. Succeed Check.
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Offline carnivore

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Re: Is there a way to make Profession (Executioner) viable in combat?
« Reply #7 on: September 16, 2012, 04:22:30 PM »
A justiciar's improved hog-tie ability would probably also work.  It'd be nice if the text said what sort of action executing someone with a headsman's axe is.

notice:
Quote from: BOVD
Headsman’s Axe: When specially sharpened and held with the proper technique, a greataxe (or a greatsword) can serve the executioner as the instrument of execution. The condemned is restrained, with the neck vulnerable to the strike readied by the executioner. On a successful Profession (executioner) check, the condemned dies instantly. If the executioner fails the attempt, the headsman’s axe delivers a coup de grace against the condemned (automatic critical hit, and the condemned must succeed on a Fortitude save or die). The coup de grace simply completes the executioner’s task more messily.
uses Readied Action

 :D

Offline Prime32

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Re: Is there a way to make Profession (Executioner) viable in combat?
« Reply #8 on: September 16, 2012, 05:46:14 PM »
Would the Ranged Pin feat count for restraining the target? Are creatures without necks immune? Are creatures who can survive vorpal weapons not immune?

There doesn't seem to be much point to justicar, since a hog-tied opponent is helpless anyway.
« Last Edit: September 16, 2012, 05:50:38 PM by Prime32 »

Offline carnivore

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Re: Is there a way to make Profession (Executioner) viable in combat?
« Reply #9 on: September 16, 2012, 06:02:23 PM »
1)Would the Ranged Pin feat count for restraining the target?
2)Are creatures without necks immune?
3)Are creatures who can survive vorpal weapons not immune?

1) .....
Quote
Ranged Pin
 
Type: General, Fighter
Source: Complete Warrior

You can perform a ranged grapple attempt against an opponent not adjacent to you.
Prerequisite: Dex 15, Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, base attack bonus +5.
Benefit: You can perform a ranged grapple attempt against an opponent by pinning a bit of its clothing to a nearby surface. The target must be within 5 feet of a wall, tree, or other surface in which a thrown weapon or projectile can be stuck and must be wearing some sort of clothing, armor, or other accoutrement. You must succeed on a ranged attack (not a ranged touch attack) and then win an opposed grapple check (your size modifier and the target's size modifiers still apply). To break free, the victim must make a DC 15 Strength check or a DC 15 Escape Artist check as a standard action.
Special: A fighter may select Ranged Pin as one of his fighter bonus feats.
When using this feat, a character gains no benefit from the Improved Grapple feat.

No... Ranged Pin, simply Grapples the Target, it does not actually Pin the Target

2)yes
3)if they can survive a Vorpal Weapon function .... they also can survive Execution from an Executioners Axe

 :D

Offline 123456789blaaa

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Re: Is there a way to make Profession (Executioner) viable in combat?
« Reply #10 on: September 16, 2012, 06:16:11 PM »
Quote
if they can survive a Vorpal Weapon function .... they also can survive Execution from an Executioners Axe

This is probably RAI but is it RAW?
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Offline SorO_Lost

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Re: Is there a way to make Profession (Executioner) viable in combat?
« Reply #11 on: September 16, 2012, 06:43:05 PM »
Quote from: BoVD
Execution Devices as Weapons: Some execution devices, such as headsman’s axes, make adequate melee weapons. In melee, such an item deals normal damage for an item of its kind (such as a greataxe) and cannot kill instantly. Most other devices of execution cannot be used in melee.

Offline 123456789blaaa

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Re: Is there a way to make Profession (Executioner) viable in combat?
« Reply #12 on: September 16, 2012, 07:15:55 PM »
Quote from: BoVD
Execution Devices as Weapons: Some execution devices, such as headsman’s axes, make adequate melee weapons. In melee, such an item deals normal damage for an item of its kind (such as a greataxe) and cannot kill instantly. Most other devices of execution cannot be used in melee.

Damn it :(.
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Offline Nameless Void

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Re: Is there a way to make Profession (Executioner) viable in combat?
« Reply #13 on: September 17, 2012, 11:23:47 PM »
I hate it when people discover my tricks.

What then dictates the situation of being "in melee"?

The wording states some-one can be grappled and have an execution performed on them. Melee has begun once one person grabs another. Once you go to swing that axe you are effectively "in melee".
« Last Edit: September 17, 2012, 11:27:33 PM by Nameless Void »

Offline linklord231

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Re: Is there a way to make Profession (Executioner) viable in combat?
« Reply #14 on: September 18, 2012, 02:57:42 AM »
Quote from: BoVD
Execution Devices as Weapons: Some execution devices, such as headsman’s axes, make adequate melee weapons. In melee, such an item deals normal damage for an item of its kind (such as a greataxe) and cannot kill instantly. Most other devices of execution cannot be used in melee.

As Nameless Void pointed out, that rule means that it's impossible to execute someone for an instant kill, unless you did it as a Bloodstorm Blade or something.  It seems fairly clear that the above rule was meant as "if you're using this as just an ordinary greataxe, you can't execute them.  If you're using it as a Headsman's Axe as part of a Profession(Executioner) check, it works." 
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Offline SorO_Lost

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Re: Is there a way to make Profession (Executioner) viable in combat?
« Reply #15 on: September 18, 2012, 08:26:45 AM »
Now I just think you're reading into things as an excuse to try and use it during combat. But irregardless of what fluff or excuse you think you have, combat is combat, and as long as you are using the axe as a weapon it cannot instant kill.

Offline Halinn

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Re: Is there a way to make Profession (Executioner) viable in combat?
« Reply #16 on: September 18, 2012, 09:11:22 AM »
It seems that it would still save a wish against the tarrasque after it being charged into unconsciousness.

Offline SorO_Lost

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Re: Is there a way to make Profession (Executioner) viable in combat?
« Reply #17 on: September 18, 2012, 03:27:52 PM »
That definitely sounds like a plan, it's not combat.

Except would is be considered a Death Effect or even bypass the entry that summarizes to that nothing can kill a Big T but Wish?

Offline dipolartech

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Re: Is there a way to make Profession (Executioner) viable in combat?
« Reply #18 on: September 18, 2012, 03:36:29 PM »
In the quoted rules for execution, it says that being pinned in a grapple makes you a valid target. Is there any situation where a grapple check versus a creature isn't considered to be combat? I mean if I told my 3 hulking buddies to drag the prisoner out and pin him down so I can execute him wouldn't the prisoner try to "fight" and therefor it would be a combat situation?

Offline linklord231

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Re: Is there a way to make Profession (Executioner) viable in combat?
« Reply #19 on: September 18, 2012, 04:27:26 PM »
The rules don't actually say "in combat."  They say "in melee."  So by SorO's reading, you'd have to throw the axe at the guy's neck or something.
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