Ultimate Magus build

[Agnostic Paladin]

So I saw someone wanting advice on a mystic theurge yesterday and it got me looking at dual casting prestige classes. And I wound up working on a Beguiler/Wizard Ultimate Magus.

So I'm looking for comments / advice on what I have here, and suggestions on spell and gear selection.

Human

Abilities (this is another back up for our usual 89 point total at first level campaign)

 Str: 10
 Dex: 18
 Con: 18
 Int: 22 (18, +2 for levels, +2 Human Paragon)
 Wis: 10
 Cha: 15  // not really sure how to split cha and wisdom, figure this will maximize potential face activities & might matter for some of the Beguiler charms

Beguiler 1 (Consecrate Spell, Spell Focus (good))
  Extend Spell, Sculpt Spell
Focused Conjurer 1 (Improved Initiative, Abrupt Jaunt)
  Opposed Schools: Evocation, Illusion, Enchantment)
Human Paragon 1 (Empower Spell)
Human Paragon 2 (Practised Spellcaster (Beguiler))
Human Paragon 3
Ultimate Magus 1 (Spell Mastery)
Ultimate Magus 2
Ultimate Magus 3
Ultimate Magus 4 (Residual Metamagic)
Ultimate Magus 5 (Uncanny Forethought)
Ultimate Magus 6

At this point, I have caster level 11 (equal to character level) in both Beguiler and Wizard (so that next level I gain Wizard spells known rather than Beguiler), with spells known as a 5th level Beguiler and 9th level Wizard.

Uncanny Forethought will let me cast Beguiler spells with Wizard slots, alleviating some of the pain of losing both Enchantment and Illusion.

Consecrate Spell + Spell Focus (good) will let me add 2 to the DC of 3rd level and lower spells for the cost of a 1st level Beguiler spell slot (or 1st level wizard spell) Maat Mons has enlightened me to the nerfing of Spell Focus in Complete Divine; 1 DC isn't worth two feats. Extend and Sculpt will give far more versatility in their place.

[betrayor]

Did you see the Ultimate Magus handbook?


http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=4039.0


As it is now,your build is losing too many wizard caster levels....
The best options is to only lose 1 or at worst 2 wizard caster levels.....

[Agnostic Paladin]

That handbook is where I started. I am only losing 2 wizard levels. It's an 11th level character with 9th level Wizard spells known.

[betrayor]

sorry, didn't read your post correctly,my apologies....

[sirpercival]

My favorite UM is still Knight of the Weave.

[Agnostic Paladin]

Ignoring for the moment how tied the class is to the Realms, how would that be worked in?  I'm not seeing any way to meet the requirements for this to use as a replacement for Beguiler, and I'm not seeing any other way that it's useful; I certainly don't understand why I'd want to take a PrC with its own spell list and advance neither Wizard nor Beguiler.

[sirpercival]

Ignoring for the moment how tied the class is to the Realms, how would that be worked in?  I'm not seeing any way to meet the requirements for this to use as a replacement for Beguiler, and I'm not seeing any other way that it's useful; I certainly don't understand why I'd want to take a PrC with its own spell list and advance neither Wizard nor Beguiler.

Start as a Wizard 5, with the spontaneous divination ACF.  Then take 1 level of KotW, and then 10 levels of UM.  Since KotW's caster level is wizard+, you only lose 1 level of wizard casting.  You can feel free to burn KotW slots on metamagic for wizard spells... and if you take the Theurgic Specialist feat from dragon mag #something, you can add the CLs together.

[Agnostic Paladin]

Never mind; I see now how that works. KotW caster level is always going to be higher than Wizard. Interesting.

[Agnostic Paladin]

I'm thinking about dumping the Mastery / Forethought pair for more Metamagic options (Reach & Split Ray most likely since they're the decent ones that are left and usable now rather than in a couple levels - when Chain and Repeat can be paid for with Beguiler slots).

Both of those though make me worry about actually hitting anything more than I already was. A +9 to hit, even against a touch AC doesn't seem like it's going to be high enough. Besides just boosting Dex, how can I improve my chances of hitting with ranged touch attacks?

On a related note, most of the handbooks don't discuss armour, for obvious reasons, or discuss only armour that can be brought down to 0% ASF; Beguiler means that I don't care about ASF, so any advice on what to look for in light armour for this character?

[zook1shoe]

Try a trickster Spellthief/wizard/ultimate magus, get the Master Spellthief feat. Throw kotw on there and it gets ugly

[Agnostic Paladin]

Also interesting; if I'm reading it right then the Wizard and Spellthief caster levels are always equal. Not many spells to use to power metamagic though, unless he gets into melee and manages to steal some.

[zook1shoe]

Trickster Spellthief basically has the bard progression instead of the crappy Spellthief progression, which helps a bit.

The Master Spellthief feat is amazing... It makes ALL of you arcane CLs stack.

Say you are a 5th level CL Spellthief and a 8th level CL Wizard, the feat makes both 13th level CL instead. Add a level of KotW, Nar Demonbinder, or Sublime Chord, and your CL jumps from 13 to 21!

[bobtheapple]

I'm rather fond of the oft-overlooked adaption of Ultimate Magus if you can get it allowed, which lets the class progress two spontaneous casters instead of Wizard + X.  A Sorcerer/KoTW or a Sorcerer/Nar Demonbinder entry loses the versatility of the wizard, but functions off of a single stat.

Residual magic is something to consider at some point, to help you stop burning through all your beguiler spells/uses of augmented casting.  I would argue that empower is a weaker choice of metamagic for a wizard/beguiler ultimate magus.  Beguiler benefits very little from it, and augmented casting can only add metamagic on spells up to 1/2 you Ultimate Magus level; in this case, 2 spell levels below your highest known spell at any given time.  I've found more utility oriented metamagic works best, so you may want to consider Fell Drain, Reach, Chain, or even Quicken (for later levels) in its place.

The reason armor is mentioned in the Ultimate Magus handbook is that Beguiler, Dread Necromancer, and Warmage's Amoured Casting ability isn't granted to any other class.

This training does not extend to any other form of armor, nor does this ability apply to spells gained from other spellcasting classes.

As for hitting things... I wouldn't be too worried about it.  First of all, invisibility (and later greater invis) can be shifted from you beguiler list, so you can negate dexterity.  That makes a vast majority of creatures AC 11 or lower for touch spells.  Really small things that end up with higher AC from size usually have inversely low hp and come in large packs, so an AOE damage spell should suffice.  Casters and Incorporeal Undead already have other powerful defenses, so their high touch AC is probably going to be the least of your worries in those cases.  There are exceptions of course, so if you really need options, Sure Strike from PHB2 is a swift action, +1/3 CL to hit.  There is also Quickened True Strike, probably best at high levels or if you want to shell out for a rod of lesser quicken.

[sirpercival]

Trickster Spellthief basically has the bard progression instead of the crappy Spellthief progression, which helps a bit.

The Master Spellthief feat is amazing... It makes ALL of you arcane CLs stack.

Say you are a 5th level CL Spellthief and a 8th level CL Wizard, the feat makes both 13th level CL instead. Add a level of KotW, Nar Demonbinder, or Sublime Chord, and your CL jumps from 13 to 21!

Only kind of true.  MS stacks your spellthief levels with your CLs from other spellcasting classes.

[zook1shoe]

oops, sorry

[Agnostic Paladin]

I'm rather fond of the oft-overlooked adaption of Ultimate Magus if you can get it allowed, which lets the class progress two spontaneous casters instead of Wizard + X.  A Sorcerer/KoTW or a Sorcerer/Nar Demonbinder entry loses the versatility of the wizard, but functions off of a single stat.

Beguiler is letting me focus on a single stat already, so I'm content with that.

Residual magic is something to consider at some point, to help you stop burning through all your beguiler spells/uses of augmented casting.  I would argue that empower is a weaker choice of metamagic for a wizard/beguiler ultimate magus.  Beguiler benefits very little from it, and augmented casting can only add metamagic on spells up to 1/2 you Ultimate Magus level; in this case, 2 spell levels below your highest known spell at any given time.  I've found more utility oriented metamagic works best, so you may want to consider Fell Drain, Reach, Chain, or even Quicken (for later levels) in its place.

I certainly intend to get Reach and Chain in the future, I have to look more closely at Fell Drain. There should still be lots of things at the low levels that would benefit from Empowering, aren't there? I definitely expect to benefit from Residual Metamagic as well; with all the available Wizards slots, I'll be able to double prepare lots of spells, and there's nothing stopping me from using the Wizard slots to meta the Beguiler spells instead.

The reason armor is mentioned in the Ultimate Magus handbook is that Beguiler, Dread Necromancer, and Warmage's Amoured Casting ability isn't granted to any other class.

This training does not extend to any other form of armor, nor does this ability apply to spells gained from other spellcasting classes.

Dammit, I totally missed that. Oh well, not that big a deal really.

As for hitting things... I wouldn't be too worried about it.  First of all, invisibility (and later greater invis) can be shifted from you beguiler list, so you can negate dexterity.  That makes a vast majority of creatures AC 11 or lower for touch spells.  Really small things that end up with higher AC from size usually have inversely low hp and come in large packs, so an AOE damage spell should suffice.  Casters and Incorporeal Undead already have other powerful defenses, so their high touch AC is probably going to be the least of your worries in those cases.  There are exceptions of course, so if you really need options, Sure Strike from PHB2 is a swift action, +1/3 CL to hit.  There is also Quickened True Strike, probably best at high levels or if you want to shell out for a rod of lesser quicken.

Thanks for all the advice.

[Agnostic Paladin]

Considering revisiting this build with a twist that I found amusing. A Beguiler (magical beast from Shining South) Beguiler. Along with a variation of Korwin's build http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=4039.msg54715#msg54715 from the comments in the Ultimate Magus handbook, this seems potentially entertaining (if squishy as all hell).

Beguiler

 Str: 10 (14, -4 Racial)
 Dex: 24 (18, +6 Racial)
 Con: 14
 Int: 22 (18, +2 for levels, +2 Racial)
 Wis: 15
 Cha: 10

 Beguiler 1 / Focused Conjurer 3 / Spellthief 1 / Unseen Seer 1 / UM 6 / [Beguiler +1 (2) / UM +1 (7) / Unseen Seer +1 (2) / UM +3 (10) / ??]
(If I was to bring this guy in to the game right now, he'd be level 11; the rest is further planning)

Extend Spell
Multiattack (can this be taken as a fighter bonus feat at Wizard 1; if not I need a different Combat feat - with a Dex in the twenties, Improved Initiative isn't a no-brainer anymore)
Practised Spellcaster (Beguiler)
Master Spellthief
Persistent Spell (either when he gets sixth level wizard slots or in time to get Easy Metamagic when he gets fifth level slots)
Arcane Disciple: War (add to Beguiler list) - not being able to get past fifth level spells won't matter since he'll only ever get sixth level Beguiler slots; besides Divine Power is what's actually interesting there.
Last feat could be Easy Metamagic or Theurgic Specialist if Dragon 325 is allowed, Residual Metamagic, or Spell Mastery in preparation for Uncanny Forethought. Or Multiattack if I wasn't able to take it at level 2.

Equipping this guy would be interesting, as he's a small sentient animal with a prehensile tail; I'd imagine this will cause some issues with gear selection.

Also, does anyone have an opinion on the value of adding the Dark template (and then buying off the LA)? I'd likely wind up coming in a level lower than otherwise, but those are some nice bonuses.

[zook1shoe]

Think of putting equipment on a squirrel

I prefer buying the Collar of Umbral Metamorphosis, and you could then buy off a second template like Phrenic or Half-Illithid or something that gives a ability increase to your spellcasting score(s)

[Wyvernhand]

KotW is fun.  Another option is Illumian with any Krau sigil combination.  Krau gives +2 CL to all spellcasting classes.  That, combined with Practiced Spellcaster for Beguiler keeps your CL maxed for both classes throughout your whole career, allowing you to stack all of your caster level boosts on Wizard in a similar way that KotW allows.  Plus, I just love Illumians.

[Agnostic Paladin]

I'm leaning toward letting the beguiler beguiler part of this go (and the whole UM thing as well); this beastie's just too damned good at stealth not to be looking at ways to max out sneak attacks with him.

I'm having a hard time understanding his attacks though. From what I can see, his claws are his primary attacks, and his bite and whatever weapon he holds with his tail are his secondaries. So his weapon will be at -5 (or -2 with multiattack)? Will he get iterative attacks with the weapon? If so, do all those attacks get a -5 (or -2)?