Author Topic: Fun Core 3 Build Ideas  (Read 8504 times)

Offline muktidata

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Fun Core 3 Build Ideas
« on: September 24, 2012, 03:56:00 PM »
I'm looking for anything fun and/or interesting and/or powerful... ib4wdc (in before wizard druid cleric!). Did you ever do something in a Core game that you felt was outside the box? See anyone else? Low level stuff is obviously more valuable since we are starting at level 1. Our other game we started at level 1 took years to get to where we are now (12-14).

My current character sketch is this guy; a Forest Gnome Cleric of Boccob multiclassing into Wizard and going into Mystic Theurge. My plan there is just to be the party face/infiltrator and cast utility spells. Craft Wands so that everyone loves me and do crazy stuff because I can. I figured since I wanted mental stats, I'd go with old age (if you're wondering why I have such high mental stats). I considered Venerable, but it's just suicide.

Another idea I'm looking at is playing a Goblin mounted character (Goblin over other small races mainly for their Ride bonus). Another character is playing a Druid, so I could use his Riding Dog at level 1 to charge with and eventually buy my own until at level 6 I pick up Leadership and get a Dire Bat. The plan there is to go with 4 levels of Fighter, a level of Sorceror, and go into Dragon Disciple (for more spell slots to cast True Strike and the other benefits). True Strike, full power attack charge with my lance/Spirited Charge and hit 95% of the time.

Lastly I was considering a Monk or Paladin. With the stats I rolled, a MAD character might actually be fun to take for a whirl. Ability Focus: Stunning Fist, Improved Natural Attack at level 6, and having the Wizard Enlarge me sounds like a plan. In that case I'd likely consider Orc or Wood Elf. If I do Paladin, I was looking at Deep Dwarf (+3 on saves vs Spells/SLAs) combined with Divine Grace sounds like a cheeky combo. The only problem is that I see the Pally getting totally overwhelmed by grappling/putting out too little damage to ever matter and being loud and clunky. Oh wait, that's a Paladin!  :lol

I rolled great stats: 18,16,16,14,14,14. Swap freely. We start at level 1 with 100g. The rest of the party is Ranged Ranger 1, Summoning Druid 1, Generalist Wizard 1, Scouty Ninja 1 (host's daughter - we let her be a Ninja), and maybe a few more unknown. We will rotate DM's so every adventure one of those characters will be missing. I had actually considered taking one of each of those classes so I could play a mini-version of their characters while they were DM'ing. lol.

There's no pre-game crafting, rearing animals, selling items, profession use, or anything silly allowed. I already tried to rules-lawyer entering into Arcane Trickster early via Rock Gnome's SLA since Complete Arcana is not allowed and it works via RAW, but that got shot down immediately.
« Last Edit: September 24, 2012, 03:58:42 PM by muktidata »
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Offline carnivore

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Re: Fun Core 3 Build Ideas
« Reply #1 on: September 24, 2012, 05:54:47 PM »
what are the House Rules? .... since Craft Wondrous Item requires 3rd lvl Caster and your 1st lvl Forest Gnome has it?


 :D



Offline muktidata

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Re: Fun Core 3 Build Ideas
« Reply #2 on: September 24, 2012, 07:18:18 PM »
The house rules are whenever Woodrow doesn't pay attention to the text, a kitten is killed. Please, for the love of kittens, point stuff like that out to me!  :p

It's now Improved Initiative.
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Offline Endarire

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Re: Fun Core 3 Build Ideas
« Reply #3 on: September 24, 2012, 07:34:49 PM »
Why go MT in core?  Feels expensive for what you plan to do.

Offline phaedrusxy

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Re: Fun Core 3 Build Ideas
« Reply #4 on: September 24, 2012, 08:42:21 PM »
Why go MT in core?  Feels expensive for what you plan to do.
Redundant is the word I'd use. Cleric of Boccob. That means you probably have the magic domain, meaning you can use wizard magic items as if you were one.

You also have Trickery, which means you can cast Disguise Self and Invisibility, and eventually Polymorph Any Object and Time Stop. You're pretty well set for arcane spells. You also get Animate Dead at 5th level: Wizard eat your heart out.

A true neutral cleric of Boccob is actually one of my favorite core builds, as you can reap just about every last good thing the cleric class has to offer in core. Once you hit 5th level, it is one of the strongest core builds as well, IMO.

The core PrCs all mostly stink, so you can enter whatever you feel like, or just go cleric 20. It won't make much difference. Loremaster is probably the most fitting, and it does have a few perks like UMD as a class skill.
« Last Edit: September 24, 2012, 08:44:10 PM by phaedrusxy »
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Offline Empirate

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Re: Fun Core 3 Build Ideas
« Reply #5 on: September 25, 2012, 03:27:48 AM »
Most powerful in Core would probably be a Conjurer or Diviner 5/Red Wizard 10/Archmage 5. Get thyself some Simulacrums (it's a Core spell... yes, Core is really where the balance problem is at!) and go to town with circle magic. Quite broken. Diviner makes a good entry into Red Wizard imo, since you only have to give up two schools of magic (once you're RW), not three, which can hurt.
Not really outside the box, just very, very potent.


Offline Mithril Leaf

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Re: Fun Core 3 Build Ideas
« Reply #6 on: September 26, 2012, 12:27:05 AM »
Most powerful in Core would probably be a Conjurer or Diviner 5/Red Wizard 10/Archmage 5. Get thyself some Simulacrums (it's a Core spell... yes, Core is really where the balance problem is at!) and go to town with circle magic. Quite broken. Diviner makes a good entry into Red Wizard imo, since you only have to give up two schools of magic (once you're RW), not three, which can hurt.
Not really outside the box, just very, very potent.

So, when did Red Wizard become core?

Offline phaedrusxy

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Re: Fun Core 3 Build Ideas
« Reply #7 on: September 26, 2012, 12:29:23 AM »
Most powerful in Core would probably be a Conjurer or Diviner 5/Red Wizard 10/Archmage 5. Get thyself some Simulacrums (it's a Core spell... yes, Core is really where the balance problem is at!) and go to town with circle magic. Quite broken. Diviner makes a good entry into Red Wizard imo, since you only have to give up two schools of magic (once you're RW), not three, which can hurt.
Not really outside the box, just very, very potent.

So, when did Red Wizard become core?
3.0 -> 3.5 conversion. It's in the 3.5 DMG.
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Offline Mithril Leaf

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Re: Fun Core 3 Build Ideas
« Reply #8 on: September 26, 2012, 12:40:58 AM »
Most powerful in Core would probably be a Conjurer or Diviner 5/Red Wizard 10/Archmage 5. Get thyself some Simulacrums (it's a Core spell... yes, Core is really where the balance problem is at!) and go to town with circle magic. Quite broken. Diviner makes a good entry into Red Wizard imo, since you only have to give up two schools of magic (once you're RW), not three, which can hurt.
Not really outside the box, just very, very potent.

So, when did Red Wizard become core?
3.0 -> 3.5 conversion. It's in the 3.5 DMG.

Sigh, I suppose it is at that. That's what I get for relying on SRD for those legally ambiguous classes.

Offline Captnq

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Re: Fun Core 3 Build Ideas
« Reply #9 on: September 26, 2012, 03:54:30 AM »
Okay...

Mystic Theurge:
Skills: Knowledge (arcana) 6 ranks, Knowledge (religion) 6 ranks.
Spells: Able to cast 2nd-level divine spells and 2nd-level arcane
spells.

So, you take Cleric 1 and Versatile Spellcaster feat. All clerics can spontanously cast Inflict or Cure spells. You drop two 1st level spells to cast a 2nd level Inflict/cure, Bam, you now qualify as a 2nd level Divine spellcaster.

Next, you take Sorcerer 1. Now, you need heightened Spell. You used Versatile Spellcaster to cast a Heightened version of a 1st level spell you know. Bam, you now qualify as a 2nd Level Arcane Spellcaster.

Finally, you take a level in Wizard. Buy up the skills you need to the levels nessisary to qualify for Mystic Theurge, And then you got some choices to make.

Mystic Theurge is a good start, but at some point you might wish to put that level or sorcerer to use. May I recommend branching out into Ultimate magus at some point. Or consider Arcane Hierophant at some point, if you haven't advanced your Divine and Arcane classes far enough for your tastes.

The upside of this is, by level 4, you are advancing in both Cleric and Wizard instead of starting at level 7 (BTW, consider Alternate class features for all three base classes. Maybe you can squeeze something out. More certainly give up the familiar. Twice. It won't be giving you anything, anyways. Cloister Cleric Springs to mind. I think you can give up the familiar to get rid of full round actions on spontainous metamagic modifications for your sorcerer.)

You'll be two levels behind a Straight up Cleric or Wizard, but you won't be three levels behind on both if you go the standard Mystic Theurge route. AND you'll have some Sorcerer Spontainous spells to play with. Avoid Combat Spells for the sorcerer. Your sorcerer spells won't scale up with level, but you can add some useful spells in there. Feather fall is not only useful for falling, but it's the lowest level spell you can cast as your swift action. This is a good way to trick people who are holding their action to disrupt your spellcasting into wasting it on a pointless spell.

Consider Wizard Specialization for the extra spells, or an elven generalist if your goal is to just have access to ALL the spells.

Now, the problem is, maybe your DM isn't playing with Races of the Dragon, then versatile Spellcaster is out. In that case, DO NOT PLAY A MYSTIC THEURGE.

Seriously. I had one player do it, he did NOT use the Versatile Spellcaster feat and it was a huge drag on the whole party. He got killed. Twice. He eventually, when the game reached epic level, start to hit his stride. As a Wizard/Cleric/Mystic Theurge/War Weaver/Dweomerkeeper, he's really turned into Mr. All-Day-Buff, and You-will-Become-INVULNERABLE for the next hour, but it was a painful few years.

That said, if your DM will allow it, let him know it will be about 13 levels before you get disgusting. The one thing I noticed is that for all his many spells at his disposal, One POWERFUL spell would have been much better, then twenty sucky ones. BTW, you do have the stats for it.

That said, Monk might be a cool choice. Go with Dex primary, then load up on feats that give you AoO against things like, Oh, someone trying to hit you. Get a reach monk weapon. Take 10 attacks a round before your turn.

Or go with a larger then man-sized race and a Great Spear. Reach 20'. Take Cleave/Great Cleave and put everything into being a fighter who does a ton of damage in one shot. Load up on the cleave feats, like taking an extra 5' step everytime you activate cleave. Wade through low level NPCs like Moses parting the RED sea. (Red! Get it?) tack on a level or two of barbarian. Call yourself Oog. Act stupid, but be really smart.

Make a crit bunny. Scimitars and feats to increase your crit range. Two handed weapon fighting. Rend feat. Whir.

Go archer. Get Order of the Initiate as soon as possible. Shoot everything with an arrow as quickly as possible.

Go for Creation Feats. Get the feats that reduce creation feat costs. Take classes that reduce costs. Get the spell that allows you to use other people's XP to make things. Be the party armorer. Make everything Class and Alignment specific for the 30% reduction. Scribe Scroll, Craft Wonderious Item, and Craft Arms and Armor should cover 90% of the permanent magic items your fellow players might want.

Now...
Extraordinary Artisan Feat -25%
Magical Artisan (Pick Wonderous Items) -25%
Limited Class/Alignment -30%

Making it yourself...

So for every 1000 gp retail cost, you can make a magic item for...
GP: 196
XP: 7

And remember:
"In general, if you wind up with a fraction, round down, even if the fraction is one-half or larger. For example, if a fireball deals you 17 points of damage, but you succeed at your saving throw and only take half damage, you take 8 points of damage."

So, that means, if it costs 1,999.99 gp to make a magic item, it is only one day to make it. So, to reverse that...

You can make any Wonderous Magic Item that costs 5079 Gold in one day. Which covers just about every +2 stat enhancement item, +2 ring of protection, +2 cloak of protection. You can create magic items that add luck bonuses, Dodge bonuses, Circumstance bonuses, Blah Blah Blah. I leave the exact number of buffs you can stack up to the apt pupil. As a note, the Monk in my player's party achieved a touch attack AC of 70+ and a base AC in the triple digits after the casters get done with buffing the party. A great deal of that is from the Wiz/Cleric being a crafting bunny for the first 15 levels or so.
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Offline Empirate

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Re: Fun Core 3 Build Ideas
« Reply #10 on: September 26, 2012, 12:01:09 PM »
Ahem... Core only?

Offline b100d_arrowz

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Re: Fun Core 3 Build Ideas
« Reply #11 on: September 26, 2012, 12:13:20 PM »
*shrug* Use science! I played a character that crafted molotov cocktails (taking the idea from alchemist fire to make an actual explosion as opposed to low damage napalm). Remember what is burnable. Invent the field of magnetic study. Use lightning rods to redirect storm energy. Grease all the things, especially for sexually humorous situations (if appropriate for the party construction) or for fun combat things other then making people fall on their ass (disarming especially)... and if the DM lets Grease be flammable :D (I can never remember if it's official that grease isnt flammable or just a house rule that always gets put in). Heat/Chill metal on jewelry. 
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Offline Empirate

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Re: Fun Core 3 Build Ideas
« Reply #12 on: September 26, 2012, 02:44:23 PM »
There's a 2nd level spell that's basically flammable Grease. Other than that, you're thinking Dragon Age: Origins...

The "invent science" approach won't really fly, I'm afraid. If D&D were based on real-world physics (or even just logic...), things would be entirely different. No DM worth his/her salt will let science function just like that in a game of D&D - and that's not even taking into account the player/PC knowledge divide!

Offline awaken_D_M_golem

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Re: Fun Core 3 Build Ideas
« Reply #13 on: September 26, 2012, 08:15:37 PM »
Wizard 3 / Cleric 1 and you've reached 5th level.
Needs:  a Magic Mart and a little handwaving.
Purchase an Imbue With Spell Ability from whomever.
Be prepared to have said spell casting servicer be
really really ticked off at you for a couple of levels.
I suggest a little diplomancing (since this is sketchy anyways).
Wizard 3 / Cleric 1 / Mystic Theurge 10 ...



btw ... I spotted the new Core books at my local big box store.
They looked good.  I felt a tinge of nostalgia.  (sniff)
« Last Edit: September 26, 2012, 08:19:16 PM by awaken_D_M_golem »
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Offline Captnq

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Re: Fun Core 3 Build Ideas
« Reply #14 on: September 28, 2012, 09:35:47 PM »
Ahem... Core only?


Uhh...

Okay, I think we're using different terms here.

Do you mean PHB and DMG only?

or do you mean, WotC Only?
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Offline altpersona

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Re: Fun Core 3 Build Ideas
« Reply #15 on: September 28, 2012, 10:15:28 PM »
iv not heard 'core' described as wotc only.

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Offline Captnq

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Re: Fun Core 3 Build Ideas
« Reply #16 on: September 28, 2012, 10:42:00 PM »
iv not heard 'core' described as wotc only.

My players love 3rd party crap. So my distinction is, "Sold as Hardcopy" WotC vrs Everything else.

I mean, if the reason your DM is giving is, "I don't have the books." Why isn't he using Stormseeker's?

EDIT: Just thought of it. If you are only using PHB and DMG, the get from Goodman Games's "The Power Gamer's 3.5 Warrior Strategy Guide and the Wizard one as well. I don't think they ever put out one for Cleric or Rogue. Joe Goodman is a Min/Maxer to end all min/maxers. Actually buy it. He deserves the money.
« Last Edit: September 28, 2012, 10:53:27 PM by Captnq »
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Offline StreamOfTheSky

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Re: Fun Core 3 Build Ideas
« Reply #17 on: September 28, 2012, 11:34:27 PM »
Ok...core build that isn't primarily a wiz, cleric, sorc, or druid...

That is really hard.  It would definitely involve a lot of multiclassing...  Other than Horizon Walker and 2-level dip of Shadowdancer, there isn't really much in the way of good non-caster PrC's, either.

Well, Bard 20 is actually decent against the foes his enchantment save or die effects work on...  But that's not much different than just being a "real caster"...

Offline Empirate

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Re: Fun Core 3 Build Ideas
« Reply #18 on: September 29, 2012, 05:21:16 PM »
How about this eeevil guy:

Barbarian 2/Rogue 3/Assassin 5/Blackguard 10.

BAB 17, Rage 1/day for those really tough fights, a nice +8d6 sneak attack, Cha to saves, Evasion, Imp. Uncanny Dodge, Aura of Despair as a great automatic debuffing option, Poison Use, 3rd level Assassin and 4th level Blackguard spells, and of course Illiteracy.
Base saves leave something to be desired at +12/+10/+5, but HP are OK for a frontliner at 2d12+10d10+8d6 (average 98.5, if Rogue is assumed to be taken at 1st level).
If desired, Barbarian can be substituted for Ranger, in order to gain TWF and Track as bonus feats, and some more skillpoints. I'd go Dex  > Con > Str = Int = Cha > Wis. We have a bit of a case of MAD here, so in a low point buy game this guy isn't so hot. But as long as you can get at least positive ability mods in all stats, along with good Dex, you should be fine. Make sure to have at least 12 (better 16; including items) Int by mid level to take advantage of Assassin casting, and similarly at least 14 Wis near endgame for Blackguard casting.

Offline phaedrusxy

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Re: Fun Core 3 Build Ideas
« Reply #19 on: September 29, 2012, 08:25:28 PM »
Starting at 1st level, core only... it's actually hard to beat a simple beat-stick build like barbarian 1.

From here
(click to show/hide)
Will he eventually be outclassed? Yes, but not for a few levels.
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