Author Topic: Look at this thing I found in Pathfinder! The bad feats/spells/etc thread  (Read 142527 times)

Offline Power

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Re: Look at this thing I found in Pathfinder! The bad feats/spells/etc thread
« Reply #240 on: September 21, 2020, 08:44:04 AM »
You missed the part where it has ferocity as a prerequisite and doesn't even permit full attacks, just attacking. The feat does absolutely nothing for you.

Offline zook1shoe

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Re: Look at this thing I found in Pathfinder! The bad feats/spells/etc thread
« Reply #241 on: September 22, 2020, 04:02:00 PM »
even if you do make multiple attacks (via different options), it gives you a -5 penalty that you would not have if you did not have the feat
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Offline Kethrian

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Re: Look at this thing I found in Pathfinder! The bad feats/spells/etc thread
« Reply #242 on: September 22, 2020, 04:04:37 PM »
It's even worse than the feat that "lets" you shoot a crossbow from prone "without penalty" (there isn't one to begin with).
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Offline Power

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Re: Look at this thing I found in Pathfinder! The bad feats/spells/etc thread
« Reply #243 on: September 22, 2020, 07:25:59 PM »
Frankly, while going back through 3E stuff I've found plenty of crap comparable to stuff in this thread. I should make a thread for that next time I encounter one. Problem would be you've got entire subsystems that are poorly thought out.
Just because we haven't touched those doesn't mean Pathfinder doesn't have them.

Mythic is the most famously bad system PF has but Kingdom Building rules are a mess too and I'm rather certain there are messes in Ultimate Intrigue, Ultimate Combat, and more.
« Last Edit: September 22, 2020, 07:32:46 PM by Power »

Offline Nanashi

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Re: Look at this thing I found in Pathfinder! The bad feats/spells/etc thread
« Reply #244 on: September 22, 2020, 10:28:50 PM »
True.

It's even worse than the feat that "lets" you shoot a crossbow from prone "without penalty" (there isn't one to begin with).

That one was officially blamed on the editors. The author said it was supposed to give a bonus till editors changed it.

Offline Power

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Re: Look at this thing I found in Pathfinder! The bad feats/spells/etc thread
« Reply #245 on: September 23, 2020, 07:56:54 AM »
Well, time for another failure of a feat:

Quote
BLAZING AURA (CONDUIT)
Source Planar Adventures pg. 26
You cover yourself in coils of flame drawn from the Plane of Fire.

Prerequisites: Knowledge (planes) 3 ranks.

Benefit: As a standard action, you can shroud yourself in fire. Until the end of your turn, whenever a creature makes a successful melee attack against you, that creature takes a number of points of fire damage equal to 1d6 plus half your ranks in Knowledge (planes); attacks made using reach weapons ignore this effect. A creature can halve this fire damage with a successful Reflex save (DC = 10 + half your level + your Constitution modifier).

You can use this feat’s benefit a number of times per day equal to your ranks in Knowledge (planes). If you have at least 9 ranks in Knowledge (planes), activating this ability is a move action. If you have at least 15 ranks in Knowledge (planes), you can activate this ability as a move action or a swift action.

Another feat ruined by incompetent Paizo editors. This would not have been a good feat even if they didn't savage it.
« Last Edit: September 23, 2020, 12:13:03 PM by Power »

Offline Nanashi

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Re: Look at this thing I found in Pathfinder! The bad feats/spells/etc thread
« Reply #246 on: September 23, 2020, 11:55:30 AM »
Where's the part that shows it was ruined by "editors"? All I see is a feat granting temporary use of an uncommon and underwhelming monster effect.  It's bad, but I miss the part where it's super crappy. Is it the reflex save? Some variants of the ability do have one.

Offline Power

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Re: Look at this thing I found in Pathfinder! The bad feats/spells/etc thread
« Reply #247 on: September 23, 2020, 12:12:05 PM »
The magic words are "until the end of your turn." It's also worth noting that this ability uses a standard action.
« Last Edit: September 23, 2020, 12:19:02 PM by Power »

Offline Kethrian

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Re: Look at this thing I found in Pathfinder! The bad feats/spells/etc thread
« Reply #248 on: September 23, 2020, 12:56:26 PM »
It's not great.  Only usable against AoOs, though you are left with at minimum a move action with which to provoke as many as possible.  And it does eventually improve to only a swift action to activate.  I'd struggle to choose between this and Toughness.
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Offline Power

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Re: Look at this thing I found in Pathfinder! The bad feats/spells/etc thread
« Reply #249 on: September 23, 2020, 01:16:32 PM »
3.5 Toughness maybe. PF Toughness is easily much, much better and more practical.

If you burn a standard action you only have move actions to trigger this. Once you are at 9th level, you can use a move action, but doing so leaves you with only a standard action to provoke a successful AoO where this might do something. Moreover at levels 9+ your odds of facing enemies with 5 fire resist or higher (or evasion) rise dramatically, further reducing the feat into worthlessness. The feat does virtually nothing. And in the event that your feat would actually cause any AoO you take to be better for you than your opponent, your opponent can simply choose not to take the AoO in the first place, since the feat is extremely unsubtle.

Offline Kethrian

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Re: Look at this thing I found in Pathfinder! The bad feats/spells/etc thread
« Reply #250 on: September 23, 2020, 04:39:42 PM »
Yeah, I was referring to 3.5e Toughness.
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An awesome-five for mentioning Penny Arcade's On the Rain-Slick Precipice of Darkness.

Offline Nanashi

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Re: Look at this thing I found in Pathfinder! The bad feats/spells/etc thread
« Reply #251 on: September 23, 2020, 04:49:15 PM »
Oh wow, that IS horrible.

Offline Power

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Re: Look at this thing I found in Pathfinder! The bad feats/spells/etc thread
« Reply #252 on: September 24, 2020, 10:03:52 AM »
I really wonder where paizo gets editors so bad as to not recognize the pure fail in "As a standard action, you can shroud yourself in fire. Until the end of your turn, whenever a creature makes a successful melee attack against you..." It takes talent to be that incompetent. Maybe I'm just biased, but I feel like it should be their job to carefully look these things over.
« Last Edit: September 24, 2020, 03:11:28 PM by Power »

Offline zook1shoe

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Re: Look at this thing I found in Pathfinder! The bad feats/spells/etc thread
« Reply #253 on: September 24, 2020, 02:41:11 PM »
going in the opposite direction, Kraken Throttle was effectively an insta-kill using grapple
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Offline Power

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Re: Look at this thing I found in Pathfinder! The bad feats/spells/etc thread
« Reply #254 on: December 01, 2020, 08:59:04 PM »
We don't seem to have too many items listed. We should fix that. Check this item out:
Quote
GAUNTLETS OF THE WEAPONMASTER
Price 110,000 gp; Slot hands; CL 10th; Weight 5 lbs; Aura strong conjuration
Source Ultimate Equipment pg. 235

These gauntlets come in a variety of forms. Some are mostly leather with small steel plates, and are suited for fine swordplay. Others are fully articulated plate favored by knights in full plate. On command, the wearer of the gauntlet can store a single weapon he is holding in the gauntlets. When he does so, a graven image of the weapon appears on the gauntlet’s plates. The wearer can store up to 10 weapons in the gauntlets in this manner. Retrieving a weapon requires the wearer to touch the image of the weapon he wants. Doing so is a swift action. When a weapon is retrieved, it appears in the hands of the wearer and any weapons the wearer had in his hands is stored in the gauntlets. If there is no room in the gauntlet for the weapons the wearer is holding, those weapons are dropped. The gauntlets can only store weapons; other items cannot be placed in the gauntlet.

Furthermore, three times per day on command, the gloves affect the wearer as the greater heroism spell.

CONSTRUCTION REQUIREMENTS
Cost 55,500 gp
Craft Wondrous Item, heroism, rope trick
« Last Edit: December 02, 2020, 01:18:30 PM by Power »

Offline Nanashi

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Re: Look at this thing I found in Pathfinder! The bad feats/spells/etc thread
« Reply #255 on: December 01, 2020, 11:44:47 PM »
The problem looks more like the item is one of many victims of getting the ability to cast a spell a few items a day in addition to its other properties, massively inflating the price as a result. That's hardly a problem unique to this item or PF material (3E had it aplenty).

By the guidelines for item creation, the ability to cast Greater Heroism (6th level spell with a minimum CL of 11) is worth 79199.99999999998GP. Subtracting that from the item leaves 30800.00000000002. Remove the 1.5 modifier for multiple properties by dividing by three and multiplying by 2 to get 20,533.33333333335. At that price it's merely a highly mediocre item. It offers stealth (worth at least 5000 GP via Sheath of Bladestealth, which only hides one weapon and can be discovered with a patdown), implied weight savings (note it works on any kind of weapon, so long as you can hold it, so it could hold some weapons of increased size. Assuming large two handed weapons that's ~250 pounds or a 2500 GP bag of holding), and some action economy manipulation for users without Quickdraw (since it allows preforming a full round action and drawing a weapon on the same turn. Biggest use off the top of my head is a Magus using spell combat with a spell that grants movement like Bladed Dash or Dimension Door) and wants to swap weapons (since speeding up sheathing weapons to draw other ones is oddly unsupported in first party material). It's not worth 20500 GP, but that's a lot less "What the hell were they thinking with that price?".
« Last Edit: December 01, 2020, 11:46:47 PM by Nanashi »

Offline zook1shoe

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Re: Look at this thing I found in Pathfinder! The bad feats/spells/etc thread
« Reply #256 on: December 16, 2020, 02:33:46 AM »
didn't realize this was a mechanic...

Quote from: River into Darkness
Rheumatoid Arthritis (Ex) This painful
condition makes Hurg bend over double.
While it limits his speed, it also allows him
to move through the lower deck of the
River Queen without squeezing.
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Offline Power

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Re: Look at this thing I found in Pathfinder! The bad feats/spells/etc thread
« Reply #257 on: December 23, 2020, 05:55:47 PM »
I guess we may as well include absurd FAQ entries into this thread. Here's one of paizo's infamous ass-pull retcon rulings from the PF Core Rulesbook FAQ:
Quote
Q:  What exactly do I identify when I’m using Spellcraft to identify a spell? Is it the components, since spell-like abilities, for instance, don’t have any? If I can only identify components, would that mean that I can’t take an attack of opportunity against someone using a spell-like ability (or spell with no verbal, somatic, or material components) or ready an action to shoot an arrow to disrupt a spell-like ability? If there’s something else, how do I know what it is?

A: Although this isn’t directly stated in the Core Rulebook, many elements of the game system work assuming that all spells have their own manifestations, regardless of whether or not they also produce an obvious visual effect, like fireball. You can see some examples to give you ideas of how to describe a spell’s manifestation in various pieces of art from Pathfinder products, but ultimately, the choice is up to your group, or perhaps even to the aesthetics of an individual spellcaster, to decide the exact details. Whatever the case, these manifestations are obviously magic of some kind, even to the uninitiated; this prevents spellcasters that use spell-like abilities, psychic magic, and the like from running completely amok against non-spellcasters in a non-combat situation. Special abilities exist (and more are likely to appear in Ultimate Intrigue) that specifically facilitate a spellcaster using chicanery to misdirect people from those manifestations and allow them to go unnoticed, but they will always provide an onlooker some sort of chance to detect the ruse.

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:lol :lmao :lmao :lmao :lol
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This looks like the kind of work (typically passive-aggressive) non-confrontational people do, the kind of people who have fragile egos and cannot straight-out say "okay psychic spellcasting was a bad idea and we're going to have to redo parts of it" and thus try to dance around discussing their problems by instead indirectly resolving some of them in a way that unsurprisingly comes with significant collateral damage.

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« Last Edit: December 01, 2022, 07:36:50 PM by Power »

Offline zook1shoe

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Re: Look at this thing I found in Pathfinder! The bad feats/spells/etc thread
« Reply #258 on: December 24, 2020, 03:36:48 AM »
yeah, one of the dumbest FAQ i've seen

doesn't that negate half of the Detect Magic spell?
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Offline Power

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Re: Look at this thing I found in Pathfinder! The bad feats/spells/etc thread
« Reply #259 on: December 24, 2020, 04:22:04 PM »
It does obviate the parts where detect magic lets you catch a person casting spells in unnoticeable ways. Although detect magic is broken in PF since cantrips are at-will now and having people walk around dungeons and social situations spamming detect magic on everything makes a complete mess of things.
« Last Edit: December 25, 2020, 10:46:20 AM by Power »