[3.5] Non-Iaijutsu Factotum

[Bear-racade]

Hey all,

since my last idea was just plain overpowered in combat for the group I'm playing in right now, I was looking for something else to play.
I think I found it in the factotum class.

The "Jack of all trades" feel is just perfect and my group currently lacks a skill monkey.

The Foundation: 28 point buy, no flaws, no iaijutsu, no dragon magazine, most official other books allowed, no 3rd party material, nothing setting specific, group VERY unoptimized, level is 5(ish)

The goal: I want to get as many factotum levels as possible, so multiclassing and PrCs  should be kept at a minumum.
The character should be well playable in an unoptimized group containing the  Tiers 1/2/4 at low levels. Really the only thing that maybe is a problem is his combat ability.

P.S.:Chameleon is nothing for me!


Now my idea so far is:
Human  Factotum 20

Str: 10 (2)
Dex: 14 (6)
Con: 14 (6)
Wis: 10 (2)
Int: 16 (10) 
Cha: 10 (2) 

using weapon finesse and knowledge devotion to not be totally useless in combat. Other feats will be filled with font of inspiration
Running around with a rapier hidden in a cane (for style points) and a shield for protection.

Obviously maxing the three most important knowledge skills, putting a single point in as many other skills as possible while maxing UMD and autohypnosis and keeping move silently, disable device and search high.

Out of combat this one should shine no matter what, but I am a bit worried about his combat abilities.
Sure Iaijutsu would fix that, but this skill just doesnt feel right to me. I wont take it and my DM would probably give me a weird look anyhow if I tried.

I am however thinking about the master of masks (one single level) prc.
Could net me every exotic weapon proficiency and +1/+1 (sadly competence) bonus on att/dmg, as well as feather fall at will and flight 5 rounds/day.

Also I kind of like the idea of being undead and hiding it for fluff reasons. Mechanically it would be both a hit and a boost. The XP costs are high at the level I'm at, but being able to dump con and all the immunities would help a great deal. Sure, not being a target for humanoid buffs and instead being a target for anti-undead-artillery sucks, but the stuff my DM could do with it for any campaign is endless (and fun).
Or whats your take on the necropolitan template

As you can see I am in dire need of some oppinions and wisdom.
My google and book-searching foo seems to have failed me.

Thanks for reading!

[ShubNiggurath]

DISCLAIMER: I am not a big factotum expert. I played with the class and I decided that I did not like it and therefore never used in actual game

If you are willing to sacrifice some skillmonkey-ness you could be a whisper gnome and set aside some feats for titan fighting (RoS)/Underfoot Combat (RotW). That together with maxed hide/bluff should keep you hidden and untouched during most fights (but without sneak attack or similar your offense still sucks)

But really, a bard build might be better all around for what you seem to be trying to do. 1 level of factotum + able learner is all you need if you want to go crazy with skills. take the bardic knack ACF and go to town

[Bear-racade]

Thanks for the suggestion.
I will definitely think about the gnome.
At first bard was indeed my choice, but then I fell in love with the factotum, so I'd really like to play one as my next character, and as pure as possible.

[ShubNiggurath]

Well, Factotum does some things very well and others not so well (like most classes). Maybe you should focus on your strengths instead of trying to shore up all your weaknesses.

I am afraid that you won't be able to get a decent offense/combat ability without dedicating serious resources to it (levels, feats, gp) and therefore undermining the nice things that your character has.

You could accept to be basically useless in offense and focus on spells/aid another and defense (to distract dumber enemies). Just make sure you talk with the rest of the group to ensure that they are fine with you playing skillmonkey/support

[sirpercival]

The best dips for Factotum are Warblade (for things like WRT and IHS), Cloistered Cleric (for 3 devotion feats, even if you never cast a spell -- I recommend Trickery, Travel, and Knowledge), and Master of Masks (for the reasons you said).  However, the exotic weapon profs aren't as useful if you aren't going for the Gnomish Quickrazor... they can get you Boomerang Daze, though.

Weapon Finesse is a good idea, and you can get KnowDev with a CC dip (as I suggested), so I'd say go to town with Font of Inspiration.

Does your DM accept homebrew?  I've written some Factotum stuff, and compiled the work of others, in this post.

[merkwerdigeliebe]

I've always liked the idea of a factotum who uses this as much as possible: http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=4400.0

I don't think you should worry too much, while you won't be a powerhouse, you'll have SLAs/UMD/Knowledge Devotion/Factotum combat abilities and should always have something to contribute. If you really need more combat options improved trip, imperious command, poisons (would go well with necropolitan, imo) aren't bad choices.

sirpercival just asked if your dm would accept homebrew. If yes, I am a fan of of the Martial Factotum ACF (there are two, just google it), it trades SLAs for maneuvers.

[Elevevated Beat]

Another Factotum reference over on the GitP forums. Mainly focused on Exotic Weapon usage, but some very fun ideas.

[Bear-racade]

@ShubNiggurath: The group is more than okay with me NOT being a melee power house for once.

@sirpercival: Cloistered Cleric sounds really great as a dip. If I will go for necropolitan I'd have at least a minor way of healing myself and would have one more feat to spare.
Homebrew is not allowed sadly. My group is really just a casual group lacky any optimization and just want to play the game as written.

@merkwerdigeliebe: (Indeed why is this love so strange? ) Great link. There are a lot of good things listet that I know want my character to own. And you are absolutely right about my combat abilities. All the listed things should make combat fun for me and that enough.

@Elevevated Beat: That one is really great and the build where I got the idea for master of masks from. Thanks for posting it. Sadly it shows how many feats you have to burn for iaijutsu to be effective (At least the first two, which is a lot for a feat starved factotum).


So what do you guys think of going necropolitan?
Fluff wise I imagine it to be a lot of fun. A scholar who in his search for knowledge crossed a line and became an undead and now has to conceal that from the world.
But are the mechanics worth it? Thats the question!

[merkwerdigeliebe]

Necropolitan:
+Can dump Con, allowing you to get 18 INT
+Lots of Immunities
=Effectively the same HP before items (higher levels this might become a minus?)
=Roleplaying stuff (could be a boon/disadvantage depending on group dynamic)
-Can't Heal self with opportunistic piety/other positive healing
-Vulnerable to the things undead are (turning, etc.)

Mechanically, I think the 18 INT is worth it. If said character is intriguing to you, definitely go for it. Someone more qualified than me might have more insight.

[Bear-racade]

I read somewhere, that you could offset the HP problem by being created next to a "desecrated altar", but I can for the life of me find a source book for this. (There were also other shenanigans mentioned that boost ability scores and stuff, but thats just overdoing it)
Edit: Never mind, I found it

(click to show/hide)

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/desecrate.htm

Also with the cloistered cleric thing right now exchanging knowledge domain spells for knowledge devotion and taking the time domain for improved initiative (further boosting my Ini strength) and pride domain for rerolling all saving throw 1's.

Now I only need a way to turn my positive into negative energy or better yet be able to be healed with positive energy (I know that there is a feat to be able to be healed with negative energy)

[Rebel7284]

I read somewhere, that you could offset the HP problem by being created next to a "desecrated altar", but I can for the life of me find a source book for this. (There were also other shenanigans mentioned that boost ability scores and stuff, but thats just overdoing it)

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/desecrate.htm

An undead creature created within or summoned into such an area gains +1 hit points per HD.

However, being undead seems overkill in an unoptimized party.

I will strongly second initiator class dips.  Both swordsage and warblade are good.  Optimally, you probably want to get to factotum level 8 first for extra actions AND start with 3rd level maneuvers.

[Bear-racade]

You might be right about the overkill. Though they only seem to be mad at me when I do more than 15 points of damage per round at level 3. (*giggle*).
Maybe I should let it rest.

Regarding the ToB dib: I really love that book, but my last three characters were all ToB (each class once), and it was always a desaster because even gimped they are too strong in combat for my group.
I'd rather concentrate on the roll playing without being completely useless in combat.

[sirpercival]

@sirpercival: Cloistered Cleric sounds really great as a dip. If I will go for necropolitan I'd have at least a minor way of healing myself and would have one more feat to spare.

Necropolitan is one of the better things you can do -- unless the DM likes to throw clerics of Pelor against you, you'll be fine, and the immunities will let you ignore a lot of things that could mess you up.

Homebrew is not allowed sadly. My group is really just a casual group lacky any optimization and just want to play the game as written.

[standard mini-rant]Homebrew stuff is less about optimization (which has to do with system mastery), and far more about interesting and fun options.  Plus, most homebrewers put a lot of work into making their stuff balanced, and are generally far more successful than the folks over at WotC.  Yes, there are a number of homebrewers, particularly inexperienced ones, who write Mary-Sue classes that can do everything, but if you stuck to the stuff that's posted and critiqued on the boards, I think you'd be pretty pleased.[/standard mini-rant]

[Halinn]

Well, for homebrew for a unoptimized party, I'd look towards the weaker ones such as the Lightning Warrior.

[Bear-racade]

[standard mini-rant]Homebrew stuff is less about optimization (which has to do with system mastery), and far more about interesting and fun options.  Plus, most homebrewers put a lot of work into making their stuff balanced, and are generally far more successful than the folks over at WotC.  Yes, there are a number of homebrewers, particularly inexperienced ones, who write Mary-Sue classes that can do everything, but if you stuck to the stuff that's posted and critiqued on the boards, I think you'd be pretty pleased.[/standard mini-rant]

I am of the same oppinion, but that matters little when you are playing in a group of people who don't even read more than PHB I to find their class and feats.
So for them its a point about being able to trust the stuff they are using and they (even the only other player besides me who has a little game understanding) just don't see the big picture. Because we manly play in lower levels a barbarian (pure core, single class) in their eyes is supreme to a wizard or cleric.
Crusader is even worse. Even gimped they are pure evil!

So I really don't want the overcomplicate the delicate group dynamic.

Which is why I am thinking hard about the necropolitan template.

Basically Factotum 1/CC 1/Factotum 19 should suffice in this group and should be a lot of fun to play.
Especially since it freed up another feat and gave me two others for free.

The cloistered cleric was indeed a brilliant idea.
Would never have thought about it.

I am still open to suggestions though!
If you have other great ideas to make the character more fun, more flavorful or more effective: Have at it plz!

Doesnt have to be feats or Classes/PrCs. Equipment is a big factor that I am unsure about.
Currently toying with the idea of buying a wand of magic missile (lvl 3) for combat. Should do quite the damage with knowledge devotion and cunning insight since the damage bonus "should" be added to each missile I think.
Kind of a "kill the end boss" wand though. No need to waste charges on minions. Thats of course the unimaginative all-combat solution


Thanks to everyone contributing so far.

[Unbeliever]

I like stuff like Improved Trip, etc. on the Factotum -- you can take advantage of both Inspiration Points and Brains Over Brawn.  And, it tends to come across as a little less overpowered, as you're more of an enabler than a damage machine.

Alternatively, if it's a low-op group that's suspicious of other sources, you could go with something weak, but interesting.  A Rogue wouldn't be bad, or even a skillmonkey character with Master of Masks that uses a bunch of funky weapons that no one in their right mind would. 

[JohnnyMayHymn]

If you go with necropolitan pick up the otherworldly feat to count as an outsider, which is also fun with alter self.  You are filling the 'corpse' role after all, dealing with traps and whatnot.

[Bear-racade]

I find Improved Trip to be rather strong since you get to deal damage and take away actions.
It's not so much other sources, but more the power level they make them to be. Which in their mind is entirely in their combat abilities.
So factotum without iaijutsu should be fine.
But I'll definitly have to make it interesting for my own sake. The game mechanics of the class help a lot. A good background story will do the rest.

Sadly I neither qualify for otherworldly no is the source approved since it's faerun.
Would have been (too!) nice to be able to turn into a dwarven ancestor

[Bear-racade]

Right now I am looking into craft(alchemy) and craft(poison making), but both don't seem to add anything good to the mix.
Alchemy mainly because the damage sucks and you can only up it with an epic feat and poison making because of the many feats you need (to apply and raise the DC and because the good stuff is hard to come by/expensive).

Are there any viable alternatives?
Or do you think convincing my DM to let me raise the damage via epic rules might be balanced?

The idea for alchemy is a "sapper" (Malazan book of the fallen-like) charakter.
Someone who throws (kind of instable) granades, sets mighty wall-downing bombs and the like. Most of which makes the party uncomfortable and sees to it that this hair smells burned most of the time because he couldn't get out of the blast radius fast enough.
With his favorite sentence being "RUN!"

As you might have guessed I am currently looking into which skills to take.
Most of them get one point anyway, but honestly I'm thinking about skipping stuff like spot and list in favour of flavour
Stuff for the down time and McGuyver-y things.

[Noliar]

If you are a necropolitan grenadier then you have some nasty options:

You are immune to disease so green slime only affects you as acid - 12 points of acid resistance and you are safe - throw ceramic pots of the stuff. Keep a culture in a big pot fed with small animals. Make sure there is a reliable source of flame in the party so you can clear areas that the rest of your party need to use.

Black Sand from Sandstorm (p21) does 1d4 negative energy damage per round  - get a scroll of the spell (p112) and feed the effect a rabbit or something, the Black Sand that the animal crumbles into should remain when the spell ends. Glue some inside your boots (or under your skin!) for 1d4 quick heal! Again, throw ceramic pots of the stuff (more for the shadow than the damage) and keep a culture in a big pot fed with small animals.