[Discussion] Brute Squad discussion thread

[VennDygrem]

Ok guys I need some help deciding between two builds.

On the one hand we have a choker Impulse mage with a level in Darkened One. He can spellshape twice per round, sometimes affecting an area. He can scare the crap out of people (imperious command, dreadful wrath) and has 30ft shadow tentacles that can do AoOs. In the future his tentacles will be able to trip and grapple
   
On the other hand we have an abomination. A choker with illithid levels and one level in Impulse Mage.  He can do all of the above except the 30ft AoOs (although that is an option in the future). In exchange for some Impulse mage class features he gains: Mind Blast, Telepathy, Cha bonus, Cha to Natural AC, Charm, Levitate, SR 17 (11+HD)

Mmmm, now that  I wrote it the second one sound cooler, what do you think?

I seem to have poisoned your mind with chokers.   

The former has stronger spellshaping, but both have very nice abilities overall. I think that if you want to focus on spellshaping, the former option is better, but if you want somewhat more diverse abilities, the latter is your better bet. However, I'm not sure the spellshaping is as necessary for success for the chokithid build. It may well be cooler, and a choker-illithid combo is pretty nasty with all those tentacle attacks. Either way, our characters can be buddies, both coming from the dungeon and having some sort of aberrant influence.

As for me, I'm still battling over whether I should go with some form of casting or if I should go the uber-cube route like my original intention. And if I do that, whether I should hold off one the third level of uber-cube to introduce a level of pseudonatural creature or do that next level, or whether or not to do it at all. I'll have to complete all the above builds and compare them.

[samnemath]

I seem to have poisoned your mind with chokers.   

Yes! i can't get them out of my mind now!

Well the first one has an Initiator level of 5 and readies and prepares Formulae about as a 4th level impulse mage (3 Impulse + 1 Darkened One). The second also has an Initiator level of 5 and readies and prepares Formulae as a 4th level Impulse mage (3 Illithid Levels + 1 Impulse mage: They stack). So they are about the same. They only thing the Chokthid really loses , is early entry in Darkened One and two feats I could have used for enhancing my spellshaping. But I believe the other abilities an the chance to enter Ullitharid in the future make up for it.

Chokthid it is!

As for me, I'm still battling over whether I should go with some form of casting or if I should go the uber-cube route like my original intention. And if I do that, whether I should hold off one the third level of uber-cube to introduce a level of pseudonatural creature or do that next level, or whether or not to do it at all. I'll have to complete all the above builds and compare them.

I think the 3rd level of Uber-cube is better.

Also, Awakened cube mentions a Ring of Ooze riding. Do you now where it is written?

Edit: I found it. I was hoping to get it so I could ride inside my dear friend, but it is to expensive
 

[phaedrusxy]

If you're looking at playing a choker/illithid, I must ask if you looked at the grell (especially with the feral grell levels)? 10 tentacle attacks (and a bite), useable as a standard action, which force a save vs. paralysis whose DC increases with the number of tentacles which connect. And you get a class feature called "Probing Tentacles".

[samnemath]

If you're looking at playing a choker/illithid, I must ask if you looked at the grell (especially with the feral grell levels)? 10 tentacle attacks (and a bite), useable as a standard action, which force a save vs. paralysis whose DC increases with the number of tentacles which connect. And you get a class feature called "Probing Tentacles".

Are you trying to destroy me with all these choices? Don't you realize how long it took me to decide on the build I have now? Why are you so cruel? 

It is tempting, but I don't want to go for a straight grappler build. the illithid gives me same tentacles which are welcome but they are just a bonus. I was mainly interested in its abilities and Cha boost (wickedly high saves for my spell shapes  )

Although the "Probing Tentacles " ability is highly tempting

[VennDygrem]

Well, you probably want to have at least a semi-decent chance of moving around in society without drawing nervous glances; a chokithid can keep most of his arm-length under a cloak and wear a mask to conceal its face-tentacles, and reasonably pass as a mysterious-looking halfling. The grell combo probably doesn't have that chance.

I have considered a hybrid Grell/Illithid combo before, gaining ridiculous amounts of tentacle attacks.

-------------------

Ok, I think I'll go with the original plan of going AGC/Uber-Cube. I can decide whether to go into Pseudonatural creature later on. Maybe if I can make my build work without flaws, I can instead go into Paragon. We'll see.

[phaedrusxy]

Well, you probably want to have at least a semi-decent chance of moving around in society without drawing nervous glances; a chokithid can keep most of his arm-length under a cloak and wear a mask to conceal its face-tentacles, and reasonably pass as a mysterious-looking halfling. The grell combo probably doesn't have that chance.

I have considered a hybrid Grell/Illithid combo before, gaining ridiculous amounts of tentacle attacks.

That's what Deceivingly Innocent Form is for.

[VennDygrem]

I think he mentioned something about being somewhat feat-involved as it was.

[Sohala]

Tentacle monster needs Anthropomorphic Animal. 2018 gained over six levels.

[samnemath]

I think he mentioned something about being somewhat feat-involved as it was.

Yeah, but I don't worry about fitting in. I can cast an illusion (False Visage incantation) to hide my true form.

[phaedrusxy]

Tentacle monster needs Anthropomorphic Animal. 18 gained over six levels.

[bobthe6th]

pff, 18, how about 1,067,212 attacks?

and also, it is 20, 4+6+10=20. 

[zook1shoe]

pff, 18, how about 1,067,212 attacks?

and also, it is 20, 4+6+10=20.

Psh I've been meaning to post my build that beats that million out of the water but I'm too busy

[Sohala]

and also, it is 20, 4+6+10=20.

Oh, even better, I misread that line!

Hmm...If a Mindflayer gained another head, does it double its face based tentacles?
Eh, probably not.

[zook1shoe]

Hmm...If a Mindflayer gained another head, does it double its face based tentacles?
Eh, probably not.

in non-homebrew..... absolutely they do

[samnemath]

Monster Hybrid feat says that you keep the old natural attacks on top of the ones you gain from new monster class unless they are the same.

Both choker and Illithid have tentacles, but illithid's are around the mouth and choker's are basically it's arms. But they are both named "tentacle attacks". Do I keep both? Or do I choose one to keep?

[sirpercival]

This might help.

[samnemath]

This might help.

I guess that means I only keep the mind flayer's. 

Oh well, 4 tentacles will have to do, no feat slots remaining unfortunately.

[Concerned Ninja Citizen]

Ok, new build concept: Black Orgun5, Ritual Expert1.

Stick Primordial Giant on the Orgun for silly intelligence.

If I go with this, I'll have Craft Magic Arms and Armor and the ability to substitute a UMD check for a spell I don't know. So if anyone wants any sort of magic weapons, armor, or shields with +2 or smaller bonuses, I'll have crafted them for and you can deduct 30% from their prices.

[VennDygrem]

Hmm, I dunno. Ritual Expert doesn't seem like a good fit, personally. You've got Black Ogrun, sure, a melee brute that can also cast, and functions as a pretty decent anti-caster (thanks especially to Blood Steel Madness). Then you've got Ritual Expert, which seems to be focused largely towards stealth and skill expertise (thus the bonus skill tricks, and rituals oriented toward stealth or skill usefulness). I'm not sure I see a lot of synergy there, and besides, it seems like Black Ogrun would really benefit from a PrC that continues advancing its casting while maintaining decent BAB and such.

Also, keep in mind that you still have to pay the xp=gp price for crafting, so you can't go crazy crafting everyone's gear.

But hey, that's just my opinion. Play what makes you happy.

[Sohala]

Um Venn, what awesomeness have you brought us with that avatar?