Giving birth to a fortress - Level 10 starting tank build needed!

[Rokugan]

Hi guys

After the recent wipe of my group the DM said the we would start a new campaign from level 10.
The given manual at the moment are PhB, DMG, MM I, complete warrior, complete divine, complete arcane, complete adventurer.
But we are going to get some others soon (i'm gonna update the thread when i know the new materials)

Giving that i want to play a tank, but i know that there are few choices and i really need your help (never played a tank before).

My idea is that:

We are allowed to take one trait and one template, so i was thinking about Synthetic soul with enhaced body and fast healing(based on con modifier) as a template and immunity to magic as trait.
Thinking about race i was going to say Dwarf for the sweet bonus to con.
Now we are coming to the real problem, which class should i play? i really don't like the idea of going paladin, so it's like i will be forced to play warrior (I don't really want to play a cleric). If the PhBII will be allowed i would like to cosider the knight. I would also consider the crusader but that material is unlikely to be allowed.

So, giving a few base info.
The sum of all ability scores must be 77
starting gold are 66000.
i have also no idea on which feats are the best.
(tell me if i forgot something)

Thanks for the help in advance!

[Rebel7284]

Synthetic Soul is not actually in your listed sources.  From what I see, it's completely homebrew....

Also, crusaders make really great tanks.  Any chance tome of battle will be added to the source list?

[Rokugan]

for the template it doesen't really matter, we are picking them from dandwiki.
For the tome of battle as i said, is very unlikely.

[xzyx]

I know you said you didn't want a paladin buuut I'd strongly recommend a Warforged (they also get CON bonus) paladin with the paladin substitution levels (you get a crapload of immunities) and then go into Hellreaver PrC. At some point you become able to heal 30 points of damage every turn as a swift action, with some limitations. Its not great, but its decent enough. Also, if you look around there are ways to abuse Hellreaver (such as taking 1 level of binder and binding naberius to get unlimited healing).

OR you could get something crazy like a Sha'ir abjurant champion paragnostic apostle and get a thousand defensive spels on yourself (paragnostic apostle and abjurant champion togheter make each abjurantion spell that adds AC add an extra 7 AC) to get your AC in the 60s while having other spells.

[Tr011]

@xzyx: Plz check out the sources allowed. But I would second the Hellreaver (although I see Crusader as the way to get into Hellreaver since Paladins kinda suck).

First of all, there are two ways of building a tank: The casting one and the mundane one.
For the mundane one, you will have a lot of problems. You only have a couple of sources, not including ToB, Dragon Magazines or Unearthed Arcana for ACFs, nor Complete Champion.
For the template, this is way too unbalanced in my opinion and I am not familiar with the templates from dandwiki. But is there any maximum on the adjustment? Or could you just take something like Paragon (+15 LA template that makes you almost godlike)?
With your sources, I'd use Fighter 2/Barbarian 1/Monk 2/Warshaper 4/something 1 (try to find a template that gives you the Shapechanger subtype since you are not allowed to take Changelings).

For the caster route, xzyx already said something important: Abjurant Champion and Paragnostic Apostle are great. But they are CC and CM, as are the Heart of... spells. But some sort of Druid build could probably go tanky (even only with MM1).

[Rokugan]

for what concern templates you can get everything that does not exceed the maximum starting level so i could grab 1 sometingh and a +9 LA template for example.
But i don't want to be too far behind with the time going.
I hope my DM will decide new materils soon.

[Tr011]

for what concern templates you can get everything that does not exceed the maximum starting level so i could grab 1 sometingh and a +9 LA template for example.
But i don't want to be too far behind with the time going.
I hope my DM will decide new materils soon.

Ah I thought it was LA-free. Sry, I did misread that one. I wouldn't then pick a template, except for any really good one (i.e. Halfminotaur, the Dragon Mag version of Half-Ogre, Feral or Shadow).

[zugschef]

there are no tanks in dnd. a tank tries to get all of the enemies attention, which only works by being the most threatening party member in every encounter. but you don't want to be the most threatening party member. you want your party to be evenely distributed.

[Unbeliever]

There are long vicious threads on this forum debating the post above mine. I will not rehash them here and only say that I think tanking is fine if you are set up so that the enemies have to target you - denying them other options - and so that you can handle those hits easily or more easily than your allies can.

Given the sources I'd probably second the wild shape master of many forms and maybe war shaper approach. If you can get Stand Still even better (it's in the SRD so I don't know how that works with your sources).

Also the OP made it sound like you didn't want to play a warrior. There are lots of ways to play a tank (and even more if you just want the game effects of being one) besides being a standard warrior. A Druid can be a great one (shocker!) and a wizard can as well. Although in that case it'd be better if yih had other sources: Abjurant Champions and War Weavers make great wizard tanks.

[Tr011]

which only works by being the most threatening party member in every encounter

That's not true at all. A tank has two things to do:

1. Getting the enemies into focusing him.
2. Not dying when getting focused.

There are lots and lots of options, how you can get the enemies into focusing you. In example, you can buff your mates by standing next to them (a knight in example can get his allies +10 AC, that might make him useful enough even when he doesn't get focused).
Also, there is the AoO-routine. That is the most common way of tanking in DnD.
Some enemies will first target the greatest foe first. Sometimes you can just block the enemies by standing in the way to your allies. Melee enemies will focus you then.
Some opponents can also get taunted into focusing the tank. There are rules for taunting in the Dragonlance Campain Setting, it's basically a bluff check.

Btw: Elan Psions or Psychic Warriors also make great tanks.

[Rokugan]

Unfortunately psionic classes are not allowed.
BTW my DM suggested me to do so. But the rest of the party should also make smart choices.
There are already 4 guys over 5 that want to be a DPS.
In the first place I proposed to cover the healer role (doing a water shugenja, which concept I really like).
Now i will wait to see if i can get the ToB, otherwise i'm probably going to play a conju mage.
I really don't get why everybody want to play the DPS role, it's just pretty boring imo (at least in the way they play it).

[Jackinthegreen]

If they're playing one-trick damagers they definitely don't know the game very well.  One of the things I think of when I see that kind of thing is the people have the WoW/other MMO role mindset of DPS, healer, and tank.  There's a lot more to the actual D&D game than those three roles.

[JohnnyMayHymn]

+1 druid: be two tanks(you and the animal companion), take feats that benefit summoning and summon more hp sponges/flank enablers as needed, or a unicorn if you need to heal.  You can also prep a bunch of buff spells and spontaneously summon natures ally when needed.

[Wyvernhand]

But I would second the Hellreaver (although I see Crusader as the way to get into Hellreaver since Paladins kinda suck).

Whirling Spirit Lion Barbarian1/Paladin of Freedom4/Hellreaver10 is actually not a bad build.  Pounce-barb is good on any build, and Pally of Freedom is rage-friendly.  Pally4 gives you Turn Undead, which you can channel into other feats like Travel Devotion, Chaos Devotion (not quite as good as Law, but not bad), Animal Devotion, or Divine Might.  Gets good mileage out of Str, Con, and Cha, probably prioritized in that order.  Either swap out your casting at Pal4 for a bonus feat (Comp Champion), or keep it and get a Wand Chamber (Dungeonscape) with a Wand of Rhino's Rush (Spell Compendium) for on-demand megacharge attacks.  Hellreaver is resilient, gives you decent bonuses to channel into Power Attack, and most of the abilities are /encounter, rather than /day, so you don't have to worry as much about blowing your wad in the first combat of the day.

[Rokugan]

We are going to have 2 new sources. I only know one for sure, and this will be the planar handbook. Any idea?

[snakeman830]

Neraph or Spiker for race?  Neraphs, thanks to their cool charge trick and outsider status, Spiker due to built-in DR (not much, but it doesn't cost you much) and acid resistance.

[Jackinthegreen]

Well, I had already posted a suggestion but then I looked at the allowed materials again and realized none of it was allowed...  My thought was desert half-orc from UA with the half-orc paladin sub(s), as well as the half-orc paragon class for rage while still being lawful.

If Planar Handbook is on allowed though, Neraph would allow you to Alter Self/Polymorph into other outsiders.  I'm sure you can find something nice and tanky.

[Rokugan]

I came up with something self made.

A dwarf   Fighter 7/ Kensai 2/ Fighter 2

I took the trait that make me one size larger.
I builded my feats around trip/grapple etc  and also AoO
I picked up the spiked chain (and made it +5 with speed, thanks to the kensai) and i "Buyed/crafted" a ring of enlarge person.

Any thought on this? I know it's not super optimized or something but, can it work?

[muktidata]

I came up with something self made.

A dwarf   Fighter 7/ Kensai 2/ Fighter 2

I took the trait that make me one size larger.
I builded my feats around trip/grapple etc  and also AoO
I picked up the spiked chain (and made it +5 with speed, thanks to the kensai) and i "Buyed/crafted" a ring of enlarge person.

Any thought on this? I know it's not super optimized or something but, can it work?

I can't get a coherent list of materials allowed enough to make a suggestion. You listed some books at the beginning (which are subject to change, but ToB probably won't make the cut, but who knows, otherwise). Then DnD WiKi somehow sneaks in as allowed source, but only for templates? Oh wait, for traits as well, you meant. Then you crafted a magical ring with a level 9 Fighter/2 Kensai. When you ask does that build work, do you mean does it literally function RAW? Probably not considering what you're trying to craft. Can 9 levels of Fighter and 2 levels of Kensai co-exist? Yes. However Synthetic Soul is for Constructs and Undead only. Is Tasha's Hideous Laughter going to nullify your character? Well, it certainly could, couldn't it?

Edit:

and immunity to magic as trait.

Sorry, I missed that. Oh, great, magic immunity is useful. Tasha's jokes aren't that funny, after all. Taking a second look at your sources allowed, a cleric is probably your best tank possibility, even without Spell Compendium, due to Divine Metamagic even though you don't get access to Magic Item Compendium to boost your turn attempts or expanded Domains to choose from SpC. Druids are good, but I like some of the animals found in other MM's better than MM1.  But still, for everything you summon, you are saving the party HP/resources when it takes damage/enemy focus.

Edit 2:

As I read more of your post, I see:

so it's like i will be forced to play warrior (I don't really want to play a cleric).

I have the perfect build for you. This is a little-known uber optimized tank build posted years ago by someone important. Here it is:

Dwarf Fighter 9/Kensai 2

(1) Improved Unarmed Strike
(F1) Combat Expertise
(F2) Improved Trip
(3) Dodge
(F4) Combat Reflexes
(6) Eyes in the Back of Your Head
(F6) Improved Combat Expertise
(F8) Mobility
(9) Elusive Target
(K1) Signature Weapon: Unarmed Strike, Unarmed Strike (+1)
(K2) Power Surge, Unarmed Strike (+1 Flaming)

Okay, so you obviously want feats. Lots of feats. They will carry you through. Position yourself between the enemies and your allies. Use a Tower Shield to maximize your armor class and max your Combat Expertise so you don't get hit. Since Trip attacks are touch attacks, your attack bonus doesn't matter one single bit. Enchant your body with +1 and then Flaming. This is important. +1d6 Fire damage doesn't look like much, but for a fortress, it is essential. Eyes in the Back of Your Head will shut down flanking bonuses which is crucial (another effective +2 or more AC and negates Sneak Attack from proc'ing in that way) and Elusive Target protects you from the extremely common NPC feat Power Attack. Most NPC's are Uber Chargers (missing citation here). With your skill points, make sure you invest heavily in Balance and Climb. Sometimes you might come against a wall and Climb helps or in other cases you might have to balance on a Grease spell or special terrain. This will be such a flaming character. Good luck and I accept Pay Pal.

[awaken_D_M_golem]

  ... I read "Giving birth to a fortress" , and think hey that'd be rather awesome.


Is this the Synthetic Soul?
http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Synthetic_Soul_%283.5e_Template%29

If so, +4 to your caster stat is omgwtfroXXors.
Human could lose the bonus feat for that.
Cleric = Tank ; Druid doesn't work with the restriction.