Pre-game and "mother-may-I"s with the DM

[phaedrusxy]

Keying recovery off of a use of Intimidate to demoralize an enemy could be an interesting recovery mechanic, though.

But not actually based on the results on the battlefield, since a mechanic like that would be, well, based on the battlefield, which is going to be different every time.

You fight a plague of rat-swarms. Demoralize = useless. You cannot succeed, therefor cannot recover.

I didn't say you had to succeed, just spend the action to use demoralize/intimidate. (much like the warblade can attack, or just spend a standard action doing nothing, and then use his swift action to recover).

[geniussavant]

Can I use the acfs for druid from the srd and the vermin focused ones from the WotC site? I'll post links if you'd like.

[Risada]

Keying recovery off of a use of Intimidate to demoralize an enemy could be an interesting recovery mechanic, though.

But not actually based on the results on the battlefield, since a mechanic like that would be, well, based on the battlefield, which is going to be different every time.

You fight a plague of rat-swarms. Demoralize = useless. You cannot succeed, therefor cannot recover.

Going through SirP's MA's: a S.Rogue needs to move, using a move action; a Wardancer makes a perform check as a free action; a Cycle Warden recovers from one discipline when using the other; Warcrafter uses free action skill checks; Hylian Warrior uses a swift action; Gerudo uses a standard action; and Wyrm Warrior's have a 1d4+1 cooldown on each of their manouvers.
All of these things are self-contained.

The only class I've seen in-play that isn't self-contained for recovery is Osle's Frostwind Virago, which needs to cold-touch an enemy, or catch an enemy in its vortex to recover. This is easier than it sounds.

Honestly though, I'm curious for Risada's opinion.

Sorry for my silence.... I did not have enough time on the PC lately...

Honestly, I would suggest either a Intimidate check or a Warblade style recovery...

[ariasderros]

Can I use the acfs for druid from the srd and the vermin focused ones from the WotC site? I'll post links if you'd like.

Please do.

Honestly, I would suggest either a Intimidate check or a Warblade style recovery...

Action to demoralize followed by swift action to recover all works for me.

[geniussavant]

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#druid

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/re/20040705a

Here is a feat I'd like too

http://dndtools.eu/feats/eberron-campaign-setting--12/child-of-winter--339/

[Jackinthegreen]

Suddenly I have this image in my head of DK or K. Rool as the druid with a Zinger as the vermin companion.

[ariasderros]

All good. Honestly, taking an ACF for a vermin is better for a trade than burning a feat on it.

[geniussavant]

I'll get a prelim build sketch up in the next few days for your approval assuming I don't have any more questions. Any potential issues you see in the character?

[ariasderros]

I'll get a prelim build sketch up in the next few days for your approval assuming I don't have any more questions. Any potential issues you see in the character?

All I know right now is Vermin-based Druid. Possibly ACF'ing out Wild Shape.

From that, no, I don't see any issues.

[Risada]

Honestly, I would suggest either a Intimidate check or a Warblade style recovery...

Action to demoralize followed by swift action to recover all works for me.

And if I manage to change the action required to demoralize to a move action, for example? Still fine as long as I don't initiate a maneuver on the same round?

And I assume the demoralize attempt to recover will fail if I fight anything mindless? What if I make an Intimidate check with a set DC (say, 15+level) that doesn't need to get someone demoralized to recover the maneuvers?

[ariasderros]

And I assume the demoralize attempt to recover will fail if I fight anything mindless? What if I make an Intimidate check with a set DC (say, 15+level) that doesn't need to get someone demoralized to recover the maneuvers?

As per the conversation above, spending the action on the skill use is the relevant part, not the success thereof. Much like how Warblade doesn't care if your attack succeeds / deals damage, just that you spend the attack action.

And if I manage to change the action required to demoralize to a move action, for example?

Sublime Rogue recovers all with a move action. What I said above was an action to Intimidate + Swift action for recover. So: if Intimidate is a Standard, then it costs Standard + Swift; if Intimidate is a Move, then Move + Swift; if Intimidate is a Swift, then Swift + Move (using your Move action to take the Swift). Since changing the action type for intimidate requires investment into gear or feats, it stands to reason that you should benefit in some way.

Still fine as long as I don't initiate a maneuver on the same round?

With Adept recovery, you should never be able to use a manouver in the round you recover it, nor recover it in the round you use it. Many Homebrew classes include that clause, but it just makes sense as a houserule anyway. So much so that I tend to forget it isn't an actual rule.

[phaedrusxy]

With Adept recovery, you should never be able to use a manouver in the round you recover it, nor recover it in the round you use it. Many Homebrew classes include that clause, but it just makes sense as a houserule anyway. So much so that I tend to forget it isn't an actual rule.

Interesting. I didn't realize that was even an unwritten design goal, although it makes sense as you don't want someone spamming their favorite (overpowered) maneuver over and over, I guess. (Although I must admit that I have a character in another game that is capable of spamming WRT almost every round... and I don't see any clause preventing it ).

[geniussavant]

Flaws and traits?

[ariasderros]

Flaws and traits?

Basic Variant Rules

• 2 Flaws.
• 2 Traits.

Interesting. I didn't realize that was even an unwritten design goal, although it makes sense as you don't want someone spamming their favorite (overpowered) maneuver over and over, I guess. (Although I must admit that I have a character in another game that is capable of spamming WRT almost every round... and I don't see any clause preventing it ).

For homebrew it tends to be. Ignoring the swordsage, look at the Crusader and the Warblade. The Crusader has his manouvers completely re-shuffled and given back at the end of your turn, thus you can't use the recovered manouvers in the same round (except for immediate-actions ones, like counters). The Warblade costs you both your Standard and your Swift actions normally, and IIRC there is only one manouver that can be used as a Move action in the book for the Warblade (Order form Chaos, WR level 6). Though Shadow Stride could be picked up somehow. So for either of them, it isn't much of an issue to specify such a point. Only in homebrew, when coming up with other recovery mechanics, does it really come into play.

[geniussavant]

I think I should have seen that...

How's this look?

 Swift and deadly hunter druid 3
Flaw: inattentive/ spell focus(conj)
Flaw2: vulnerable/ augment summon
1: Child of Winter
3: Ashbound(MoE)

Thoughts and approval?
And I need a race, any thoughts suggestions there?

[Jackinthegreen]

Whisper Gnome for the dex and con boosts?  Since you won't get access to wild shape, you're going to want extra HP, saves, AC, and initiative base.  And perhaps be able to hide and sneak like no one's business.

[Risada]

I am struggling to choose between one of the following builds:

Water Orc Martial Hexblade 2 Mineral Warrior 1
Stats: Str 23, Dex 18, Con 21, Int 16, Wis 16, Cha 16
Flaw: Shaky (-2 ranged rolls)
Flaw: Innatentive (-4 Listen and Spot)
Trait: Abrasive (+1 Intimidate, -1 Bluff and Diplomacy)
Trait: Focused (+1 Concentration, -1 Listen and Spot)
F1: Power Attack
F2: Ability Focus (Hexblade's Curse)
1: Dreadful Wrath
3: Improved Initiative

Magic Blooded Hellbred (body) Martial Hexblade 2 [urlhttp://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=8781.0]Mineral Warrior 1[/url]
Stats: Str 19, Dex 18, Con 21, Int 16, Wis 16, Cha 20
Flaw: Shaky (-2 ranged rolls)
Flaw: Innatentive (-4 Listen and Spot)
Trait: Abrasive (+1 Intimidate, -1 Bluff and Diplomacy)
Trait: Focused (+1 Concentration, -1 Listen and Spot)
F1: Power Attack
F2: Ability Focus (Hexblade's Curse)
1: Dreadful Wrath
3: Improved Initiative

I am looking for ways to survive and to debuff stuff.

The Orc build's next feat will be Headlong Rush and I plan on abusing Hell's Fang's two attacks (inside Level 2 spoilerblock) on a charge to deal massive damage.

The Hellbred build goes towards a bigger Charisma modifier and utility with a lower offensive potential early on. The biggest trick will be using that Diamond Mind maneuver that makes the target flat-footed in conjunction with Neck Slash's Con damage.

What do you guys think?

[ariasderros]

How's this look?
Thoughts and approval?

Looks good by me.

And I need a race, any thoughts suggestions there?

Lesser Aasimar, Human, S.H. Halfling, Shifter, Whisper Gnome, or, if you're feeling cheese-tastic (and less sociable), there's Dragonborn Buomman / Antropomorphic Bat.

 

I am struggling to choose between one of the following builds:

Can't really help choose between them, they both look neat.
Both, though, seem to have a -1 penalty to both Str and Con. Where is that coming from?

I am looking for ways to survive and to debuff stuff.

Pretty sure you've found them.

The Hellbred build goes towards a bigger Charisma modifier and utility with a lower offensive potential early on. The biggest trick will be using that Diamond Mind maneuver that makes the target flat-footed in conjunction with Neck Slash's Con damage.

You have Hellbred (body) though, which is the one that raises Con, but lowers Int. It is Hellbred (Mind) that boosts Cha, but lowers Con. The stats are for Mind, so I think you just mis-typed.

What do you guys think?

I really like both of them.
The Orc is a hard-hitting guy that can survive extended fights, or back to back fights. He can debuff quite well, but can also build up to gain health from his own attacks, which can let him be a linebacker when needed. His higher Str gives him more damage, and more hit, and it's that extra to-hit that really helps with things like Life Draining Flurry when you get it, but even your other abilities as-is, it helps.
The Hellbred, first gets style points for race. But I can just imagine him getting up to the point of using the Neck Slash boost + Avalanche of Blades on some poor sap at some point. Aside from being an effective killer, Neck Slash damaging Con is, in a lot of ways, another debuff, and with his higher Cha, he is better at actually using his debuffs, since Curse, Intimidate, and Wrath all key off of Cha, and his starts out 4 higher.

[Risada]

I am struggling to choose between one of the following builds:

Can't really help choose between them, they both look neat.
Both, though, seem to have a -1 penalty to both Str and Con. Where is that coming from?

I guess I'm not missing any stats?

Orc Build:
Str 18 +4 (orc) +1 (MW)
Dex 18
Con 18 +2 (orc) +1 (MW)
Int 18 -2 (orc)
Wis 18 -2 (orc)
Cha 18 -2 (orc)

Hellbred Build:
Str 18 +1 (MW)
Dex 18
Con 18 +2 (hellbred) +1 (MW)
Int 18 -2 (hellbred)
Wis 18 -2 (magic Blooded)
Cha 18 +2 (magic blooded)

The Hellbred build goes towards a bigger Charisma modifier and utility with a lower offensive potential early on. The biggest trick will be using that Diamond Mind maneuver that makes the target flat-footed in conjunction with Neck Slash's Con damage.

You have Hellbred (body) though, which is the one that raises Con, but lowers Int. It is Hellbred (Mind) that boosts Cha, but lowers Con. The stats are for Mind, so I think you just mis-typed.

Magic blooded is a template that grants me a few SLAs, that I can get more uses if I grab the Magic in the Blood feat.

What do you guys think?

I really like both of them.
The Orc is a hard-hitting guy that can survive extended fights, or back to back fights. He can debuff quite well, but can also build up to gain health from his own attacks, which can let him be a linebacker when needed. His higher Str gives him more damage, and more hit, and it's that extra to-hit that really helps with things like Life Draining Flurry when you get it, but even your other abilities as-is, it helps.
The Hellbred, first gets style points for race. But I can just imagine him getting up to the point of using the Neck Slash boost + Avalanche of Blades on some poor sap at some point. Aside from being an effective killer, Neck Slash damaging Con is, in a lot of ways, another debuff, and with his higher Cha, he is better at actually using his debuffs, since Curse, Intimidate, and Wrath all key off of Cha, and his starts out 4 higher.

I did not pick hellbred (mind) because it gives me a -2 to Constitution and grants me a few things I can't use properly... I'm AFB right now, but it gives darkvision, right? And I have a nice -5 penalty on Spot checks...

For the hellbred build, I could swap Imp. Init. with Empower Curse (increase curse's penalty by 2) or Irresistible Curse (saves against my curse forces to roll twice and pick lower result)....

[phaedrusxy]

Why no Magic-Blooded on the orc? Racial restrictions?