Invisibility, superior questions

[dumah87]

hi guys,

I've a couple of question about this powerful spell:

1) which are the spells, besides True Seeing, that beat this spell ?
2) can listen check pinpoint a creature subjected to invisibility, superiod? (DC should be around 60)
3) given that this spell masks even sounds, can a character casts spell with verbal components?

thank you all.

[sirpercival]

1) which are the spells, besides True Seeing, that beat this spell ?

The Touchsight psionic power will do it.

[littha]

Note that the name of the spell should be Superior Invisibility, the inversion is so that it appears next to Invisibility in an alphabetical list.

I believe there are also spells that grant blindsight.

[nijineko]

there are two skill tricks which can do it as well, iirc. lifesense might do it.

[zioth]

Superior Invisibility makes you invisible to all forms of perception, including lifesense and blindsight. It also makes you completely silent, even when casting spells. It's a game-breaking spell. The only things that beat it are True Sight and a DC 80 spot check.

[sirpercival]

And, you know, touchsight.

[nijineko]

and the clarity of vision skill trick for only a dc20 spot check, as it uses the mundane conditions clause.

[dumah87]

what about Arcane Sight spell ?

(so I can see the invisible carried items!)

as well as Detect Magic/ Evil/Good/Law/Chaos.

what do you think?

[littha]

Superior Invisibility makes you invisible to all forms of perception, including lifesense and blindsight. It also makes you completely silent, even when casting spells. It's a game-breaking spell. The only things that beat it are True Sight and a DC 80 spot check.

This powerful glamer functions like invisibility, except that it masks image, scent, and sound alike, concealing the subject from all senses except touch and taste.
As with greater invisibility, this spell doesn't end if the subject attacks.
While invisible, the subject exudes no scent and radiates a silence that absorbs all sound and vibration in a 5-foot radius, preventing detection by tremorsense and similar abilities, as well as preventing speech and the casting of spells with somatic components (though the subject remains able to detect scents and can hear as normal).
Superior invisibility renders the recipient immune to detection by see invisibility, faerie fire, glitterdust, invisibility purge, dust of appearance, and the blindsense ability, though creatures under the effect of the spell can be detected by true seeing or the blindsight ability.
Certain mundane conditions (such as leaving footprints) can also render a subject detectable.

Lifesense and blindsight are good to go. It also makes you unable to cast spells with somatic components.

[RobbyPants]

Reading the exact text, I think Detect Magic would detect the aura. It doesn't specifically list it in the spell. You could maybe try to cram a RAI argument in there, but as a DM, I'd allow it.

Also, how about simply throwing flour or some other powder on the creature? It explicitly states that mundane conditions can render the creature detectable, but also explicitly forbids Dust of Appearance and Glitterdust, which function similarly. Still, so far as I can tell, if the already invisible person picks up an item, the item would still be visible unless stowed, so in theory, the flour would be visible on the surface.

BTW, what book is this spell in?

[littha]

Complete Arcane, might be reprinted elsewhere. Not checked.

[RobbyPants]

Complete Arcane, might be reprinted elsewhere. Not checked.

Thanks. It sounded familiar, but I haven't used it in-game, so I forgot all about it. There's a good chance it's reprinted in the SpC then, since it's in Complete Arcane and not Complete Mage.

[ksbsnowowl]

Also note the glaring typo, which was never corrected with errata:

While invisible, the subject exudes no scent and radiates a silence that absorbs all sound and vibration in a 5-foot radius, preventing detection by tremorsense and similar abilities, as well as preventing speech and the casting of spells with somatic components (though the subject remains able to detect scents and can hear as normal).

Quite obviously, it should be saying that it prevents the casting of spells with verbal components.  Just point this out to your DM, and make sure he makes a ruling on it one way or the other.

[dumah87]

Isn't this spell re-printed in Spell Compendium ?

AFAIK now you can cast spell and gives you "immunity" from blindsense, tremorsense, blindsight.

Lifesense (Su)
A dread wraith notices and locates living creatures within 60 feet, just as if it possessed the blindsight ability. It also senses the strength of their life force automatically, as if it had cast deathwatch.

So neither Lifesense.

[nijineko]

so, we are still definite on the touchsight power and moment of clarity skill trick as negating superior invisibility. funny that, negating a 7th level spell with two skill points and a minor dc roll.

[zugschef]

most recent version is in the spell compendium indeed.

[Captnq]

Yes, detect magic can detect someone who is invisible. The problem is, the target must remain in the area you are detecting for three turns. If the target moves out of the area you are checking for magic, you need to start over. You need the third round of detect magic which allows you to detect the location of auras before you can use detect magic as a method of targeting.

[ksbsnowowl]

Yes, detect magic can detect someone who is invisible. The problem is, the target must remain in the area you are detecting for three turns. If the target moves out of the area you are checking for magic, you need to start over. You need the third round of detect magic which allows you to detect the location of auras before you can use detect magic as a method of targeting.

Which is why Arcane Sight is a much better option.  The invisible person still has total concealment, and thus benefits from a 50% miss chance.

[nijineko]

Yes, detect magic can detect someone who is invisible. The problem is, the target must remain in the area you are detecting for three turns. If the target moves out of the area you are checking for magic, you need to start over. You need the third round of detect magic which allows you to detect the location of auras before you can use detect magic as a method of targeting.

Which is why Arcane Sight is a much better option.  The invisible person still has total concealment, and thus benefits from a 50% miss chance.

touchsight would be a better option yet.

[Chemus]

Mindsight for telepathic creatures should work.

or mindspy 2 (with Detect thoughts) gives the mindspy faster mindscan lets you pinpoint all the minds in the (now spherical) detection area and know the int of the most intelligent one on 1st round of concentration, and mindpsy 1 lets the mindspy concentrate as a free action.