Author Topic: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread  (Read 66525 times)

Offline Nanshork

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Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
« Reply #60 on: May 26, 2013, 01:08:13 AM »
Yeah, it is basically oversized two-weapon fighting for Energy Warriors.  It probably isn't the most optimal feat, but I noticed its absence.   :)

Offline Garryl

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Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
« Reply #61 on: May 26, 2013, 01:51:45 PM »
Here's what I'm thinking so far.


Energy Claws [Cybernetic]
Prerequisites: Energy Beam.
Benefits: You can project your Energy Beam in a new form, as a set of claws. The claws commonly manifest as a spiky energy field around the backs of your hands, starting just above your wrist and extending slightly past your fingertips, although this does not impede your ability to hold objects, use hand-slot items, or otherwise use your hands. As claws, your energy beam functions as a claw natural weapon. By default, it deals magic, piercing, and slashing damage affected by damage reduction, and has a critical threat range of 20/x2. Despite being a natural weapon, it is still considered a masterwork weapon, so you retain the +1 enhancement bonus on attack rolls with your energy claws.
Special: Your activator level increases by +1, to a maximum of your total Hit Dice.


Energy Fangs [Cybernetic]
Prerequisites: Energy Beam.
Benefits: You can project your Energy Beam in a new form, as a set of fangs. The fangs commonly manifest as a jagged mask of energy around your face, although this does not impede your ability to see, speak, use face- and helm-slot items, or otherwise use your head. As fangs, your energy beam functions as a bite natural weapon. By default, it deals magic, bludgeoning, piercing, and slashing damage affected by damage reduction, and has a critical threat range of 20/x2. Despite the fact that energy fangs are not held in a hand, you must still have a hand free to project them initially. Despite being a natural weapon, it is still considered a masterwork weapon, so you retain the +1 enhancement bonus on attack rolls with your energy fangs.
Special: Your activator level increases by +1, to a maximum of your total Hit Dice.


Energy Lash [Cybernetic]
Prerequisites: Base Attack Bonus +1, Energy Beam.
Benefits: You can project your Energy Beam in a new form, as a whip-like stream of energy. As an energy lash, your energy beam functions as a two-handed melee weapon. By default, it deals magic, slashing damage affected by damage reduction, and has a critical threat range of 20/x2.
   An energy lash has reach, so you can strike opponents twice as far away as normal with it. In addition, unlike most other weapons with reach, it can be used against foes within your normal reach.
   You can use an energy lash to make trip attacks. If you are tripped during your own trip attempt, you can drop the energy lash to avoid being tripped.
   When using an energy lash, you get a +2 bonus on opposed attack rolls made to disarm an opponent (including the roll to keep from being disarmed if the attack fails).
   You can use the Weapon Finesse feat to apply your Dexterity modifier instead of your Strength modifier to attack rolls with an energy lash sized for you, even though it isn’t a light weapon for you.
Special: Your activator level increases by +1, to a maximum of your total Hit Dice.
(Spiked chain for energy beams.)


I'm also trying to work up the following:
- A way to combine the claws and fangs together (since you can only have one form of energy beam projected at a time), and then to add on more natural attacks (a set of tentacles or something). Why should Totemists get all the natural attack fun?
- A sort of summoning thing, where you turn your energy beam into a semi-autonomous beast like an animal companion. You would not be able to use your energy beam normally while this was in effect.
- A general sort of thing to let you have multiple forms of your energy beam projected at once.
- A generic damage boost for energy beam attacks.

I'm also asking myself the Soulknife question about whether to just give access to forms of all weapons with which you are proficient. This would be a rewrite of the baseline Energy Beam mechanics, which I've been thinking about looking at anyways.
- I had asked a similar question (whether to use a Monk-like damage progression and make it size-based instead of the current size-independent version) when I originally wrote the Energy Warrior class.
- The innate damage scaling might be unnecessary. At most levels, Energy Beam damage already gets roughly +1d6 more damage bonus than a Scout's Skirmish from baseline energy emitter modules, yet doesn't have to jump through hoops to make full attacks with that bonus damage. The extra +4d6 damage over 20 levels seems kinda unnecessary in that regard. On the other hand, you do lose out on weapon properties other than straight enhancement bonuses. On the other other hand, module abilities make up for it.
- Working off of existing weapons feels more elegant than having to write up specific forms.
- It's also an elegant way to add weapon size scaling for damage back in (it doesn't make as much sense when dealing with nd6 damage expressions).
- I need to rewrite a couple parts of Energy Beam anyways (the bits about "magic" damage should be replaced with some text saying that it always counts as a cybernetic weapon, and thus can bypass DR/cybernetic, DR/magic, DR/psionic, and affect incorporeal, even if it doesn't have an enhancement bonus).

On an unrelated note, I need to add a rule that says module-created objects share an energy receptacle with the module that created them.

Offline radmelon

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Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
« Reply #62 on: May 26, 2013, 06:18:59 PM »
Really? I don't know of many +Str races without LA or RHD. Offhand, I can only think of Half-Orcs and Wood Elves. +Con races, meanwhile, include Dwarves, Gnomes, Dusklings, Warforged, Mongrelfolk, the Dragonborn template, and several lesser planetouched races.

Edit: Huh, I forgot that Orcs were LA +0.

The Master +0 LA Race List III, among the +0 LA, 0 or 1 RHD races, lists a total of:
- 21 races with +2 Str
- 9 races with +4 Str
- 65 races with +2 Con
- 4 races with +4 Con
which includes
- 7 races with +2 Str and +2 Con
- 1 race with +4 Str and +2 Con (Water Orcs)

It also lists 2 LA +0 templates with +2 Con (and no +Str), 1 with +2 Str (and no +Con), and 1 with +4 Str and +2 Con.
...Obviously I don't know what I'm talking about. Suggestion withdrawn.

Offline Garryl

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Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
« Reply #63 on: May 27, 2013, 11:31:40 AM »
Here's a tentative version of Energy Beam that has it taking the form of any weapon, rather than just a couple of fixed forms.
(click to show/hide)

How's it look? Does that seem reasonable?

Offline Garryl

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Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
« Reply #64 on: May 31, 2013, 03:59:07 PM »
I added many new spells and powers.

Any thoughts about the altered Energy Beam ability?

Offline Nanshork

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Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
« Reply #65 on: May 31, 2013, 04:30:13 PM »
Altered Energy Beam:

Honestly I prefer a fixed selection of forms, it makes more sense to me logically.  How will you do damage for the energy beam with the new one?  Also, opening up that many options could lead to potential abuse, and anyways you're giving all kinds of bonuses to it so people don't need energy beam spiked chains or whatever IMO.  If people want specific weapon abilities that's what the Energy Lash feat is for.

If you want more options to the energy beam, I'd suggest taking a look at the Pathfinder Soulknife Form Mind Blade ability.  If you adjust the damage to 1d4 for light, 1d6 for one-handed, and 1d8 for two-handed it will A) better fit with the progression you've already created (just up the number of dice as you're already doing) and B) let people do things like go power-attack or two-weapon fighting or sword and board or whatever.

Just add the beam cannon on top of that.  Hell, you can give it the same light/one-handed/two-handed options if you want to give people the options of dual wielding ranged weapons.

That reminds me, if you're letting people have more than one melee weapon type then this line, "You can only use your energy emitter in the form of one weapon at any given time, although you can freely switch between them as the situation demands." needs to be adjusted somehow to allow for a different weapon per hand.



Speaking of stealing things from Pathfinder's Soulknife...

Potential feat ideas (just throwing things out there).

  -  A feat to let you shape an energy beam into a shield (say light/heavy/tower?  or maybe just heavy.) with no ASF/ACP that gets the same enhancement bonus that the energy beam does (maybe to attack and damage if you can shield bash with it?).

  - Energy Beam Finesse: Like weapon finesse but now you can finesse your two-handed energy sword if you want.

  -  Feat to make energy armor?  I don't know.

Offline condochimp

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Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
« Reply #66 on: June 01, 2013, 09:25:59 PM »
Hm, I'm not sure of your policies for this, but I had an idea for a PoC Base Class, which I suppose I'll detail in a spoiler for future reference (and feedback).

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Offline Garryl

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Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
« Reply #67 on: June 03, 2013, 02:35:47 AM »
Altered Energy Beam:

Honestly I prefer a fixed selection of forms, it makes more sense to me logically.  How will you do damage for the energy beam with the new one?  Also, opening up that many options could lead to potential abuse, and anyways you're giving all kinds of bonuses to it so people don't need energy beam spiked chains or whatever IMO.  If people want specific weapon abilities that's what the Energy Lash feat is for.

My idea was that the base damage from the energy beam would be the same as the weapon it takes the form of. The bonus damage from the modules would stay as d6s and d4s, possibly with something like +1 damage/die for two-handed weapons to keep them from falling way behind TWF. Maybe even -1 damage/die for off-hand weapons. /shrug. Hopefully, by separating the two more fully, it would also reduce the risk of confusion about whether or not the module bonus damage dice are multiplied (they're not, but since the base damage is a progression of d6s and the bonus damage is also a progression of d6s, it's easy to mix it up).

Note that since you'd only get to pick from weapons with which you are proficient already, you'd need EWP or the like to snag a spiked chain form. I was thinking of adding in martial weapon proficiency with that change, though.

Another thing is that using real weapons as the basis makes it a bit easier to multiclass and/or to dip Energy Warrior in builds that care about weapon selection otherwise (reach, tripping, unarmed, etc.), although that's more of a corner case.

Quote
If you want more options to the energy beam, I'd suggest taking a look at the Pathfinder Soulknife Form Mind Blade ability.  If you adjust the damage to 1d4 for light, 1d6 for one-handed, and 1d8 for two-handed it will A) better fit with the progression you've already created (just up the number of dice as you're already doing) and B) let people do things like go power-attack or two-weapon fighting or sword and board or whatever.

Just add the beam cannon on top of that.  Hell, you can give it the same light/one-handed/two-handed options if you want to give people the options of dual wielding ranged weapons.

... I think I was going to say something about my wanting to get away from that "nd6" base damage progression was what spurred this desire for change. But I forgot what it was exactly that I wanted to say. Meh. I think I said it already a couple posts back, though.

Quote
That reminds me, if you're letting people have more than one melee weapon type then this line, "You can only use your energy emitter in the form of one weapon at any given time, although you can freely switch between them as the situation demands." needs to be adjusted somehow to allow for a different weapon per hand.

Yeah, that line is probably going to go no matter what happens at this point.

Quote
Speaking of stealing things from Pathfinder's Soulknife...

Potential feat ideas (just throwing things out there).

  -  A feat to let you shape an energy beam into a shield (say light/heavy/tower?  or maybe just heavy.) with no ASF/ACP that gets the same enhancement bonus that the energy beam does (maybe to attack and damage if you can shield bash with it?).

  - Energy Beam Finesse: Like weapon finesse but now you can finesse your two-handed energy sword if you want.

  -  Feat to make energy armor?  I don't know.

Interesting ideas. Given the weightlessness and the ability to use Wis for attack rolls anyways, I was thinking of making all melee energy beam weapons finessable anyways.

As for energy armor/shields, I'm hesitant because making your own arsenal is supposed to be the Dreadnought's domain (see Riot Shield, Power Suit, and a few more modules I'm drumming up ideas for). Energy Warriors, at least on the equipment side of things, were supposed to focus on a single, awesome energy weapon.

Hm, I'm not sure of your policies for this, but I had an idea for a PoC Base Class, which I suppose I'll detail in a spoiler for future reference (and feedback).

Princely Detective
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Policies how? Do you mean for a suggestion for more PoC content, or for a class you'd like to make yourself?

Regardless, it certainly looks like an interesting concept. Is that name a reference to something?
« Last Edit: June 03, 2013, 03:06:40 AM by Garryl »

Offline condochimp

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Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
« Reply #68 on: June 04, 2013, 05:10:38 PM »
@Garryl: Ah, sorry for not getting back earlier. I'd meant that I want to make it myself, but wasn't certain how you felt about people making content for your subsystem. Oh, and it is indeed a reference! More specifically, to the Persona 4 video game and its spin-offs/sequels. uvu

Offline Nanshork

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Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
« Reply #69 on: June 04, 2013, 05:16:02 PM »
If you're getting rid of scaling damage entirely I don't see any non-flavor reason not to let the Energy Warrior make his energy beam into whatever weapon he is proficient with.


Offline Amechra

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Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
« Reply #70 on: June 04, 2013, 05:58:16 PM »
condochimp, I'm pretty sure he'll be OK with it; he had no problem with me making a few feats.

I'm thinking of writing up a set of (basic) rules for Trap Modules.

Essentially, you give them basic trap statistics... but you use Modules with preset amounts of energy in them to model how they work.

So, for example, you could have an "arrow" trap which uses Advanced Targeting "activated" in its virtual Visor socket.

I would probably give it an Energy Emitter socket and a Visor socket.

Then, there can be rules for you to "jack in" to an area's defense network, and then mess around with the traps; move around Energy, unsocket some modules, change their instructions, etc, etc.
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Offline Garryl

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Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
« Reply #71 on: June 04, 2013, 06:15:52 PM »
@Garryl: Ah, sorry for not getting back earlier. I'd meant that I want to make it myself, but wasn't certain how you felt about people making content for your subsystem. Oh, and it is indeed a reference! More specifically, to the Persona 4 video game and its spin-offs/sequels. uvu

Go right ahead. Just post it and let me know when it's ready, I'll add a link in the index.

condochimp, I'm pretty sure he'll be OK with it; he had no problem with me making a few feats.

Speaking of which, how do you want to handle those feats? Do you want to post them yourself in a new thread? At the end of the existing feats thread? Do you want me to just add them into the main feats post? I'd rather not leave them hidden in the middle of this discussion thread where they will get lost.

Offline Amechra

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Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
« Reply #72 on: June 04, 2013, 06:18:14 PM »
Just add 'em to the main post. It centralizes everything, after all.
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Offline Garryl

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Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
« Reply #73 on: June 04, 2013, 06:41:58 PM »
Alright. I'd like to tweak the wording a bit, though, if that's alright?

Offline Amechra

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Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
« Reply #74 on: June 04, 2013, 08:53:48 PM »
Go right ahead; I acknowledge my lack of perfection.
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Offline Garryl

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Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
« Reply #75 on: June 04, 2013, 10:05:27 PM »
Um, some oddities I'm trying to puzzle out with Temporary Craftsmanship.
- Was the widget supposed to count against the number of modules you or the user can have active at once? I had expected it to count against yours, but not the user's. However, the wording indicates the opposite. If it doesn't count against yours, there's nothing stopping you from activating every module on your list as a widget, thus letting anyone freely switch around what modules (without energy) they're using.

Offline Amechra

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Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
« Reply #76 on: June 04, 2013, 10:23:30 PM »
Might as well have it take up yours as well as theirs.
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Offline Garryl

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Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
« Reply #77 on: June 04, 2013, 10:56:54 PM »
Wouldn't that mean you'd be spending 2 modules to get just 1 inferior module? Plus it means you can't give your widgets to non-activators, which I thought was the whole point.

Edit: How about it counts against you, but not against the user. That way, you're really giving away your activating abilities. First modules (Temporary Craftsmanship), then energy and sockets (Pocket Industry). Effortless Invention is somewhere in the middle there where it lets the module be attached and lets energy be allocated to it by the widget's user, which is actually kinda out of character with the other two feats.
« Last Edit: June 04, 2013, 11:11:26 PM by Garryl »

Offline Amechra

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Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
« Reply #78 on: June 04, 2013, 11:41:14 PM »
It works for me.
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Offline Garryl

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Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
« Reply #79 on: June 05, 2013, 01:28:33 AM »
How's this look?
(click to show/hide)