Author Topic: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread  (Read 66563 times)

Offline Garryl

  • Honorary Mod
  • *****
  • Posts: 4515
    • View Profile
Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
« Reply #260 on: June 12, 2020, 04:36:54 PM »
Yea here I was only taking one visor because or an imagined limit. If I had the two types of Visors could I maintain two different locks?

That, you can't. Target lock is a mechanic unto itself that the Advanced Targeting and Dueling Visor modules, alongside a few items and abilities, allow you to make use of. No many how many sources allow you to acquire a target lock, you can only keep one on one subject at a time (with the exception of high-level bounty hunters, who get a class feature that extends that limit). You do, however, get all of the benefits of a target lock that all of your modules and effects provide, no matter how you gain the ability to acquire a target lock. The modules that allow you to acquire a target lock have a summary of this information in their descriptions to clarify how they interact.

For example, if you had both the Advanced Targeting and Dueling Visor modules active, you would be able to establish and maintain a target lock on a single creature at once, but you would get both the Dodge bonus to AC and the Dex bonus to ranged damage (alongside the various other lock-related benefits the modules provide from energy and attachments) against that one creature. Likewise, you would get an improved attack bonus with a smartlink weapon and you would be able to benefit from the bounty hunter's marked target class feature.

Edit: Note to self: The target lock special ability should specify that by default, you can only acquire a target lock on a subject you can see, maybe also clarify that some abilities change what you can acquire on or maintain on.
« Last Edit: June 12, 2020, 04:40:37 PM by Garryl »

Offline YuweaCurtis

  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 594
  • My Life For Madoka!
    • View Profile
Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
« Reply #261 on: June 12, 2020, 05:24:26 PM »
Since you seem to be working on this, I'll note the  Observation class has the wrong class linked.

Offline Garryl

  • Honorary Mod
  • *****
  • Posts: 4515
    • View Profile
Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
« Reply #262 on: June 12, 2020, 05:30:32 PM »
Which link where?

Edit: Oh, to the astronomer. Thanks. I'll fix that.

Offline Garryl

  • Honorary Mod
  • *****
  • Posts: 4515
    • View Profile
Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
« Reply #263 on: June 12, 2020, 11:01:23 PM »
Let me know when you're ready for me to look over the Gladiator.

I just plonked down the latest of my brain drainings for the exo gladiator. It's got class features up to level 6 now and racial sub levels for warforged. Also, I've fully written out 13 new modules, with notes for 2 more. I would appreciate your preliminary impressions (beyond "cool new activator material"). Also, if you have any ideas for higher-level class features, I'm particularly open to suggestions. Filling out the levels has been the stumbling block for me.
« Last Edit: June 12, 2020, 11:44:28 PM by Garryl »

Offline YuweaCurtis

  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 594
  • My Life For Madoka!
    • View Profile
Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
« Reply #264 on: June 13, 2020, 08:00:57 AM »
Hey, any suggestions on managing the expend energy features of the Energy Warrior?

Also Bounty Hunter requires socket access, but gives Least Socket Access. I'd imagine this is so you could get in with the feat, but having full activator progress makes this feel moot.
« Last Edit: June 13, 2020, 08:23:37 AM by YuweaCurtis »

Offline Garryl

  • Honorary Mod
  • *****
  • Posts: 4515
    • View Profile
Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
« Reply #265 on: June 13, 2020, 08:53:02 AM »
Hey, any suggestions on managing the expend energy features of the Energy Warrior?

Not a clue, really. Energy expenditure effects are things that you're not supposed to do too much, lest you run out of energy and weaken yourself in general for the rest of the adventuring day. The intent with the energy emitter attachments is that the expenditure effect is supposed to be a bonus when you need it, but not something that you use all the time. Also, you can get back all of your expended energy with an hour's rest by refreshing your energy (and that's not limited to 1/day), so if you do expend too much, you can spend some time to recover.

The energy expenditure effects are among the ones that I've thought the least about, so I'd appreciate any feedback you have about them.

Quote
Also Bounty Hunter requires socket access, but gives Least Socket Access. I'd imagine this is so you could get in with the feat, but having full activator progress makes this feel moot.

That's the case for all or almost all of the PrCs for exactly the reason you mentioned. It's also important for energy warriors, who can get in with just access to their Energy Emitter socket (ditto for the upcoming exo gladiator class).

Note that activator level progression doesn't progress socket access that a class gives, only the number of concurrent attachments (and modules and energy). For example, if you take 10 levels of cyberneticist and then 10 levels of bounty hunter, you'll only have access to greater sockets, not core. It's part of how a PrC can have full activating progression and not be a straight upgrade over a base class.

Offline YuweaCurtis

  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 594
  • My Life For Madoka!
    • View Profile
Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
« Reply #266 on: June 13, 2020, 10:27:01 AM »
Yea I get that, just that Least socket gain feels empty.

The concept items look good.

Phase Discountinuity; Maybe drop the damage a die? Because the phasing is definitely better than the other natural weapons. Then again, weapon modules.
Thrust Lancer; Maybe this is partially because of a bias, but moment and skirmish sounds awefully like Energy Warrior things to me.
« Last Edit: June 14, 2020, 08:42:34 AM by YuweaCurtis »

Offline Nanshork

  • Homebrew Reviewer
  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 13401
    • View Profile
Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
« Reply #267 on: June 14, 2020, 04:41:42 PM »
Thoughts:

Could use Sense Motive as a class skill.

Same activating table as the Energy Warrior, makes sense.

Can exografts be masterwork?  How about made of special abilities like mithral?  As written the answers to those questions are both no because they aren't crafted like armor, just treated like armor while attached to the wearer.  Obviously the intent is that they can be crafted the same was as armor because you have a class ability that lets them be masterwork.

Light armor proficiency with rules for medium and heavy exografts feels weird.  I don't know if it should be changed though.

Besides the obvious of looking at Totemist for ideas, SirP's Morphling might spark something since it is also natural weapon focused.


Shouldn't extra energy in Synthetic Rage increase the duration?

Natural attacks granted should specify a damage type.  I was just assuming the defaults from the SRD until I hit "incorporeal touch natural attack".  That doesn't have a default damage type.


Offline Garryl

  • Honorary Mod
  • *****
  • Posts: 4515
    • View Profile
Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
« Reply #268 on: June 14, 2020, 05:14:30 PM »
Phase Discountinuity; Maybe drop the damage a die? Because the phasing is definitely better than the other natural weapons. Then again, weapon modules.

It loses Strength to damage, so it's a high accuracy, low damage attack form. It should typically be doing maybe 25% less damage per hit than a typical natural weapon, comparable to the likely accuracy improvement it has over a typical natural weapon. Other natural weapons also have their own benefits, like coming in pairs or being bonus attacks separate from your normal limbs.

Quote
Thrust Lancer; Maybe this is partially because of a bias, but moment and skirmish sounds awefully like Energy Warrior things to me.

You are right! I'll make it an energy warrior module, too.

Please let me know if any other modules look like they should be accessible to other classes. That hasn't been a priority for me in my scribblings.

Thoughts:

Could use Sense Motive as a class skill.

Sounds appropriate.

Quote
Same activating table as the Energy Warrior, makes sense.

Can exografts be masterwork?  How about made of special abilities like mithral?  As written the answers to those questions are both no because they aren't crafted like armor, just treated like armor while attached to the wearer.  Obviously the intent is that they can be crafted the same was as armor because you have a class ability that lets them be masterwork.

Yes! In fact, the default starting exograft that exo gladiators get at character creation is masterwork.

Exografts are armor. All of the normal rules for armor apply to them. They just have extra rules that make them more graft-like.

"Exografts are armor, but in some ways they function similarly to grafts."
"An exograft can be modified just like any other suit of armor, even while it's attached."

Quote
Light armor proficiency with rules for medium and heavy exografts feels weird.  I don't know if it should be changed though.

It's mostly for multiclassing, so you can still use your heavier armor proficiencies. Also for that one crazy guy who thinks that Medium and Heavy Armor Proficiency are worth spending feats on.

Quote
Besides the obvious of looking at Totemist for ideas, SirP's Morphling might spark something since it is also natural weapon focused.

Great minds think alike. I had a few magipunk classes on my research/reference list, the morphling included.

Quote
Shouldn't extra energy in Synthetic Rage increase the duration?

The balancing point on the current iteration of the module was intended to be that you're getting more power than you typically would in other modules for the same amount of energy, offset by the fact that the bonuses will likely run out on or just before the last round of combat. Not sure I quite managed that, though.

An earlier draft of the effect had the duration scaling with energy, but I couldn't get a clean wording and effect. I didn't want it to snapshot the energy allocation right as you entered the rage, any dynamically changing the duration as your energy allocation changed sounded like a bookkeeping annoyance in addition to being difficult to word properly.

Quote
Natural attacks granted should specify a damage type.  I was just assuming the defaults from the SRD until I hit "incorporeal touch natural attack".  That doesn't have a default damage type.

Will do. Incorporeal touch will specify that is untyped, and I'll list the damage type in the abilities for the rest.

Offline Nanshork

  • Homebrew Reviewer
  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 13401
    • View Profile
Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
« Reply #269 on: June 14, 2020, 10:46:53 PM »
I think the whole language about what an exograft is needs to be cleaned up.  This whole "it's armor but not really because it's a graft" thing is obviously complicated enough that I missed important things even on a second read-through.  Maybe not necessarily cleaned up, just rearranged so that rules text comes before fluff text. 

Thinking about it further, I was going to do a rewrite to show you what I mean but honestly I think that "Exografts are armor, but in some ways they function similarly to grafts." should be the very first sentence and that fixes that.  I missed it twice because everything before it was fluff so I assumed it was a meaningless fluff paragraph (as far as I can tell).

On Synthetic Rage's duration, fair enough.  I haven't gotten to the point of trying to balance modules against other modules.

Offline Garryl

  • Honorary Mod
  • *****
  • Posts: 4515
    • View Profile
Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
« Reply #270 on: June 14, 2020, 11:28:28 PM »
I think the whole language about what an exograft is needs to be cleaned up.  This whole "it's armor but not really because it's a graft" thing is obviously complicated enough that I missed important things even on a second read-through.  Maybe not necessarily cleaned up, just rearranged so that rules text comes before fluff text. 

Thinking about it further, I was going to do a rewrite to show you what I mean but honestly I think that "Exografts are armor, but in some ways they function similarly to grafts." should be the very first sentence and that fixes that.  I missed it twice because everything before it was fluff so I assumed it was a meaningless fluff paragraph (as far as I can tell).

Is this clearer? I think I got rid of all the language that refers to it like a graft.

(click to show/hide)

Edit: If that doesn't clear it up well enough, I might also replace the attach/remove terminology with don/remove, like armor normally uses and possibly also replace the paragraph about attaching/removing in 8 hours with the standard don/don hastily/remove table for armor (indicating the same 8 hours w/ grafter assistance). I think the flavor would suffer, though.

Quote
On Synthetic Rage's duration, fair enough.  I haven't gotten to the point of trying to balance modules against other modules.

Everything here needs a balance pass. It's all or almost all first draft stuff.
« Last Edit: June 14, 2020, 11:35:04 PM by Garryl »

Offline YuweaCurtis

  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 594
  • My Life For Madoka!
    • View Profile
Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
« Reply #271 on: June 15, 2020, 06:33:49 AM »
The point of Thrust Lancer's first ability is to charge with reach weapons right?

Offline Nanshork

  • Homebrew Reviewer
  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 13401
    • View Profile
Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
« Reply #272 on: June 15, 2020, 03:48:25 PM »
That cleared it up perfectly.  I now completely understand that it is armor that functions kind of like a graft in some ways and is not a hybrid armor/graft item.

Offline Garryl

  • Honorary Mod
  • *****
  • Posts: 4515
    • View Profile
Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
« Reply #273 on: June 15, 2020, 07:08:25 PM »
That cleared it up perfectly.  I now completely understand that it is armor that functions kind of like a graft in some ways and is not a hybrid armor/graft item.

To be fair, it's evolved from a pseudo-graft to a graft that eats a body slot to a graft that's also partly armor to a graft/armor hybrid to an armor/graft hybrid to armor that's kind of like a graft, so I'm not surprised that I've managed to bamboozle you about it.

The point of Thrust Lancer's first ability is to charge with reach weapons right?

No? There's nothing stopping you from charging with reach weapons normally. It's more a general freeing up of restrictions on charging, which evolves into taking off into straight-line flight after a Ride-By Attack-like charge with the arms socket.

Thanks for bringing my attention to this, though. I had forgotten to add verbiage specifying that you don't need to move directly towards your opponent.

Offline YuweaCurtis

  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 594
  • My Life For Madoka!
    • View Profile
Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
« Reply #274 on: June 15, 2020, 08:05:05 PM »
Oh, well yea that bit about not having to stop next to them threw me off

Offline Nanshork

  • Homebrew Reviewer
  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 13401
    • View Profile
Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
« Reply #275 on: June 16, 2020, 12:07:24 AM »
That cleared it up perfectly.  I now completely understand that it is armor that functions kind of like a graft in some ways and is not a hybrid armor/graft item.

To be fair, it's evolved from a pseudo-graft to a graft that eats a body slot to a graft that's also partly armor to a graft/armor hybrid to an armor/graft hybrid to armor that's kind of like a graft, so I'm not surprised that I've managed to bamboozle you about it.

 :lmao

Offline Garryl

  • Honorary Mod
  • *****
  • Posts: 4515
    • View Profile
Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
« Reply #276 on: June 16, 2020, 10:58:57 PM »
Currently looking at adding the following abilities plus uncanny dodge to the exo gladiator. What do you think?

(click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: June 17, 2020, 11:50:09 PM by Garryl »

Offline YuweaCurtis

  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 594
  • My Life For Madoka!
    • View Profile
Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
« Reply #277 on: June 17, 2020, 12:06:41 AM »
Perhaps this is a bit close to Thrash Line, but how about something based off Whiplash from Iron Man for a module?

Offline Garryl

  • Honorary Mod
  • *****
  • Posts: 4515
    • View Profile
Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
« Reply #278 on: June 17, 2020, 12:16:05 AM »
Perhaps this is a bit close to Thrash Line, but how about something based off Whiplash from Iron Man for a module?

For general purpose energy whip stuff, there's also Grapple Lasso. Are you thinking about something more specific that those two modules don't cover?

Offline Nanshork

  • Homebrew Reviewer
  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 13401
    • View Profile
Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
« Reply #279 on: June 17, 2020, 01:29:06 PM »
Pulse of the Pits seems fine.  It should probably have a range, seeing someone a hundred feet away that doesn't even notice you probably shouldn't you knowledge of their opinion of you.

It also reminded me of the Sense Motive expanded skill use here.  I'm not sure if that is something you'd want to make use of.

In general Unconventional Tactics seems okay but it isn't exciting.  I don't have time right now to look at every one of the options.