ALL maneuvers and ALL stances of a discipline

[ImperatorK]

Let us consider a scenario:
You pick one martial discipline. You know all maneuvers from that discipline and you can use and change (with a single swift action) all its known stances simultaneously (you don't have to use all stances, you can pick and choose).
What would be the strong and weak points of the disciplines (including popular and fairly balanced homebrew)?

[RobbyPants]

How do you ready/recover maneuvers? Assuming this works about the same as normal, knowing all maneuvers (also, assuming you are capped at maneuver level based on your level) would be just fine.

As for combining all the stances of one at once, I'd have to think about it. It probably wouldn't be too bad for the most part, given how most stances are somewhat weak for their level anyway. Most stances don't synergize that well, but then again, my ToB experience is pretty much limited to single-digit levels.

[ImperatorK]

How do you ready/recover maneuvers?

Depends what class you're using.

Assuming this works about the same as normal, knowing all maneuvers (also, assuming you are capped at maneuver level based on your level) would be just fine.

It seems you misunderstood me. I'm not asking about that. This isn't a houserule. I'm asking for opinions on how good or useful are various disciplines on their own.

[RobbyPants]

When you said you know all maneuvers from a discipline, I thought you were talking about a houserule where you would pick one and get everything from it, not that you would choose to take all known maneuvers from one discipline, but not get anything above and beyond normal.

you can use and change (with a single swift action) all its known stances simultaneously (you don't have to use all stances, you can pick and choose).

Maybe I'm misreading that, but isn't that completely a houserule? Aren't you saying that you can use any/all stances from one discipline at once?


Regardless, I'd probably figure Stone Dragon would still be on the bottom, since none of it's stances are that good anyway. Devoted Spirit has some nice stances, so benefiting from all of them at once would be pretty sweet (I'm assuming the normal alignment restrictions apply).

[ImperatorK]

Well, technically it's a houserule. But this thread isn't about discussing the houserule. If you read the OP carefully you'll notice that there's one question and it is talking about the disciplines being used under the houserule, not the houserule itself.

[RobbyPants]

It's half about the disciplines printed in the book, and half about your houserule:

Let us consider a scenario:
You pick one martial discipline. You know all maneuvers from that discipline and you can use and change (with a single swift action) all its known stances simultaneously (you don't have to use all stances, you can pick and choose).
What would be the strong and weak points of the disciplines (including popular and fairly balanced homebrew)?

All I wanted to know was what was being discussed before I started to post something seriously off the mark because I didn't understand something. So far as I can tell, you want to know what discipline would be best (or worst, or how they'd compare) if you could use all of its stances at once. I thought it was pretty important to take that into consideration.

That being said, I answered which I thought would be the best and worst above. I'd have to sit down with my book later and give it more thought to figure out which other ones might be better under what circumstances.

[ImperatorK]

It's half about the disciplines printed in the book, and half about your houserule

No, it's about disciplines (both printed and homebrew) used under the houserule.

[RobbyPants]

It's half about the disciplines printed in the book, and half about your houserule

No, it's about disciplines (both printed and homebrew) used under the houserule.

Exactly. Then we agree. We need to take both into account.

That being said, my answer is several four posts up.

[ImperatorK]

Um, yes, but your first post sounded like you were commenting on the houserules, so I clarified that the topic is about the disciplines. I hope now it's clear.

[Noliar]

I'm inclined to put shadow hand near the top, short range teleport for the win. It's especially useful for a solo character because stealth gives you more chance to pick your fights.

[Empirate]

For sheer damage output, I'd put Iron Heart, Tiger Claw and (situationally) Diamond Mind at the top. For the first two, those "attack X times" maneuvers can really put in work, and straight damage bonuses are nothing to sneeze at, either. Diamond Mind shines in the damage department due to the [insert random mineral][insert random synonym of "knife"] maneuvers.
Iron Heart and Diamond Mind are also among the best for staying in a fight (Iron Heart Surge, save replacers), and have some nice stances (Hearing the Air). But for staying power, Devoted Spirit is probably on par overall, and depending on alignment, it can come up with very decent damage, as well (Divine Surge is brutal for the level).

But most powerful discipline, overall, all things considered? White Raven. Because it turns not only you, but your whole team into killing machines, and that is priceless. It also potentially breaks the action economy, which is priceless-er. Best capstone, as well, IMO.