Smallest thing in D&D

[ariasderros]

That's all the word "atom" originally meant; the greeks just used it as a hypothetical term for the smallest imaginable indivisible thing.

I realize this, that's why I made the disparity between how that site uses the word, and "neutron/positron/electron"
Because E_L put that forth as being a way to "have both", but that essay uses the word for its original meaning, not its modern one.

I realize that magic can make stuff smaller. Since that can be applied to anything though, it is still relevant as to what the smallest base substance is.
Pretty sure we're at "speck of flour".

[Halinn]

Pretty sure we're at "speck of flour".

This is probably around the smallest scale we can be reasonably certain exist in D&D. This includes the 10 µm width of cotton fibres. We can't be completely certain that it's made of fibres in D&D, though. Smaller than that, spider web silk is 3-8 µm in our world, but well, Lolth might have a profound impact in what the web sizes are for the small spiders we're talking about for those webs..
Flour particles can be that small, but I mentioned the median size earlier because around 95% of it is 50 µm or larger, which means you won't really be find the smallest speck.

[zook1shoe]

So its basically down to spider silk and fungal spores?

[Halinn]

Smaller than that scale, and the objects would be undetectable by the tech level D&D emulates. A strand of spider silk in itself already is invisible to the naked eye (you generally only see them when dust covers it, or with dew on it or something similar).

[littha]

There were also some mini elementals somewhere, you could buy jars of them...

Elementite swarm?

That would be them, could have sworn you could buy them but apparently I had them mixed up with planar motes. Either way they seem to be microscopic judging from the illustration...

[awaken_D_M_golem]

Pretty sure we're at "speck of flour".

This is probably around the smallest scale we can be reasonably certain exist in D&D. This includes the 10 µm width of cotton fibres. We can't be completely certain that it's made of fibres in D&D, though. Smaller than that, spider web silk is 3-8 µm in our world, but well, Lolth might have a profound impact in what the web sizes are for the small spiders we're talking about for those webs..
Flour particles can be that small, but I mentioned the median size earlier because around 95% of it is 50 µm or larger, which means you won't really be find the smallest speck.

hmm ... I wonder about the Grinding techniques
used on the Flour.  Obviously a well ground speck
of flour exists, but the size of it won't be what modern
food engineering does.  I doubt Dragon mag or any
official d&d Novels had anything on grinding wheat.

I could see this becoming quite a debate about how
small something is, that doesn't, can't, and "shouldn't"
use exact real world measurements.


Smallest d&d measured spider is that 1" on post #5.
idk --- 1" real life spider has what size of silk ??
If you can see the silk, it's bigger than the Cerebral Parasites.

Spores ?!
Seems to require a real life assumption, but still.

[Shadowknight12]

There's a penis joke here somewhere, but I'll be damned if I'll make it.

I'm throwing my hat with "speck of silt".




Can you imagine the bonus to AC one of those particles would have?

[Halinn]

I'm throwing my hat with "speck of silt".

That's about the same size as the flour particles (using the width of that hair as reference, they're about 100 µm), and quite importantly, still large enough to be visible to the naked eye. Using real life assumptions, my money is on cotton fibres or spider silk.

[Shadowknight12]

I'm throwing my hat with "speck of silt".

That's about the same size as the flour particles (using the width of that hair as reference, they're about 100 µm), and quite importantly, still large enough to be visible to the naked eye. Using real life assumptions, my money is on cotton fibres or spider silk.

I thought the implicit clause was "still visible to the naked eye." If we can do away with that, I present you clay particles:

[zook1shoe]

Sugars or atmospheric dust

 http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/particle-sizes-d_934.html

[Halinn]

zook, you're arguing molecules there, when D&D uses elements.

[zook1shoe]

Quasi-elemental Plane of Dust would have atmospheric dust in it, as well as other forms of dust.


The problem with a thread like this, is arguing real-world and gaming sizes. Where do you draw the line?

Example: I'm the DM and they sell Dr. Pepper in taverns along with the typical ale. Well that means that 'sugars' biological must be in the world, since its a carbonated sugary drink and wine. Yes, it could be created magically, but that's beside the point.

That means that the sugar molecule is in gaming the world and therefor has a size.

What if my sugar molecule is not made of real-world elements, but made of DnD elements? Then its a fully valid idea.

[ariasderros]

The problem with a thread like this, is arguing real-world and gaming sizes. Where do you draw the line?

Buddy, you ain't kidding.

What if my sugar molecule is not made of real-world elements, but made of DnD elements? Then its a fully valid idea.

Here's the line though. Implicit versus Explicit referencing.

I was wrong to say "speck of flour", because, much like Halinn pointed out about cotton, we can't assume that is how the substance works in D&D.

Thus the smallest that is explicitly referenced is "grain of sand".

Elementites might have that fancy picture of them under a magnifying glass, but the individual elementites are Tiny. Their swarms don't even have immunity to weapons. So any fine creature is smaller than them. The artwork lies.

[awaken_D_M_golem]

Demi-plane of Sugar

[zook1shoe]

Demi-plane of Sugar

 

[awaken_D_M_golem]

  ... and Caramel would be Difficult Terrain there.

But yeah, there's the Plane Of Salt + Dust
so I assume they're semi-direct ports of RL.


HEY !!
Plane of Vacuum ... Vacuum is pretty small, yes ?!
Vacuum isn't nothing in d&d, it's an element.

[Shadowknight12]

"Clerk, I'll take 20 pounds of your best vacuum. And make it snappy, I have a clowder of cats with diarrhea and several yards of carpet that aren't going to clean themselves."

[zook1shoe]

i think i'm blinded by the quasi-elemental plane of radiance of Shadowknight12 

[awaken_D_M_golem]

"Clerk, I'll take 20 pounds of your best vacuum. And make it snappy, I have a clowder of cats with diarrhea and several yards of carpet that aren't going to clean themselves."

Earth Mephits might like cat-doo and have some clay stored "somewhere".
Decanter Of Endless Water on the leftovers.

[Shadowknight12]

i think i'm blinded by the quasi-elemental plane of radiance of Shadowknight12 

 

/bow

Earth Mephits might like cat-doo and have some clay stored "somewhere".
Decanter Of Endless Water on the leftovers.

 

Indeed, who said elemental vacuum was the only option?