Author Topic: Aes Sídhe [Ascent Into The Light]  (Read 7179 times)

Offline Shadowknight12

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Aes Sídhe [Ascent Into The Light]
« on: November 11, 2012, 12:29:00 AM »
AES SÍDHE


Bean Sídhe.

Fear Sídhe.
   
"The man of the mounds comes for thee,
He calls thy name, he sings at thee.
O Mother, 'tis a sorrow held!
By the moonlit shore, I beheld,
A man of grace, a man of poise.
And behind him, the faerie envoys,
Keening for our eldest soul!"

-Old nursery rhyme.


The aes sídhe are more commonly known as "the people of the faerie mounds." A woman of the faerie mounds is known as a bean sídhe (banshee), while a man of the faerie mounds is known as a fear sídhe (farshee). In truth, the aes sídhe are the spirits of the fae. The reasons for a fae to become undead are many, as varied as any other race's. However, the most common reason is also the one most often immortalised in song and poetry. In many tales and songs, a fae swears an oath to watch over a mortal family, an easy task for an immortal creature. However, the fae is unexpectedly killed (usually by murder), and must return as an aes sídhe to fulfil their oaths.

Most aes sídhe, even if they didn't swear service or fealty to a family, still find themselves drawn to watch over the beings they befriend and their loved ones. In those cases, the aes sídhe usually take a passive role, watching from afar and appearing only to deliver dire warnings or mourn over important deaths. However, some aes sídhe are more proactive, taking the role of a bodyguard or household guardian. Others choose not to take on any charges, but instead their unlife is dedicated to pursue some task (often related to an unfulfilled oath). A scant few are left wandering aimlessly until they are swept up in grand events by the forces of chance or fate.

Aes sídhe often look like the Fey they were in life (and there is great variance among the Fey), but with an ethereal, translucent quality. Some take on the visage of natural elements that evoke death or the undead, such as Autumn, Winter, night or graves. It's not uncommon for some aes sídhe to have an aura of fallen leaves around them or a chilly wind. Others are dressed in the garb of the dead, or make those around them feel as though they're in a graveyard.

Aes sídhe often adventure to protect their charges, fulfil oaths or look after friends, family and lovers. Many were whimsical and chaotic in life and adventure for the sake of travelling and experiencing new things. Aes sídhe retain the personalities they had in life, though some find their purpose and focus sharpened by undeath.


MAKING AN AES SÍDHE

Abilities: The most important ability for the aes sídhe is Charisma, since it's used for most of their class skills and class features. Dexterity comes close, for AC, class skills and many class features. Intelligence is always useful, since it gives them more skill points to spend and benefits some of their class skills.
Races: In life, they had to possess the Fey type (can be an acquired type).
Alignment: Any.
Starting Gold: 1d4x10 (25).
Starting Age: Any.


Class Skills
The Aes Sídhe's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Bluff(Cha), Concentration(Cha), Craft(Int), Disguise(Cha), Diplomacy(Cha), Gather Information(Cha), Handle Animal(Cha), Intimidate(Cha), Hide(Dex), Knowledge(Arcana, History, Local, Nature, Nobility and Royalty and Religion)(Int), Listen(Wis), Perform(Cha), Profession(Wis), Sense Motive(Wis), Spellcraft(Int), Spot(Wis) and Survival(Wis).
Skill Points at 1st Level: (4 + Int)x4.
Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 4 + Int.

Hit Dice: d6




Level
Base
Attack Bonus
Fort
Save
Ref
Save
Will
Save

Special
1st+0+0+0+2Aes Sídhe Body, Verdant Charm, Keening, Urban Powerlessness, Vulnerability to Cold Iron.
2nd+1+0+0+3Incorporeality I, Fae Ancestry, Ancestry Weakness, Ancestry Talent I, +1 Cha.
3rd+1+1+1+3Ancestry Power I, Boon of the Fae.
4th+2+1+1+4Incorporeality II, Ancestry Talent II, +1 Cha.
5th+2+1+1+4Emerald Flight, Ancestry Power II.
6th+3+2+2+5Incorporeality III, Ancestry Talent III, +1 Cha.
7th+3+2+2+5Ancestry Power III, Ancestry Gift.
8th+4+2+2+6Incorporeality IV, Ancestry Talent IV, +1 Cha.
9th+4+3+3+6Ancestry Power IV, Emerald Oath.
10th+5+3+3+7Ancestry Talent V, Ancestral Paragon, Wail of the Aes Sídhe.


Weapon and Armor Proficiencies: The aes sídhe are proficient with simple weapons. They are not proficient with any kind of armour or shields.

Aes Sídhe Body (Ex): The Aes Sídhe lose all racial traits they had previously and gain the following racial traits: Revised Undead Type (see below), Medium size, a base speed of 30 feet, Common, Sylvan and Druidic as automatic languages and any non-secret languages as bonus languages for high Intelligence.

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Verdant Charm (Sp): All aes sídhe, regardless of ancestry, are naturally in touch with the natural world, retaining their inborn fae magic. They become capable of casting spell-like abilities as they gain HD. Save DCs equal 10 + 1/2 the aes sídhe's HD + their Charisma modifier.

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Keening (Su): As a standard action that does not provoke attacks of opportunity, the aes sídhe may keen out loud. All creatures within 5 feet, whether friend or foes, must make a Fortitude save (DC 10 + 1/2 the aes sídhe's HD + the Aes Sídhe's Charisma modifier) or take 1d8 sonic damage. This is a [Sonic] effect. Aes sídhe are immune to their own Keening ability and that of other aes sídhe.

The Keening improves as it follows:


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Urban Powerlessness (Ex): When inside a settlement, the aes sídhe must make a Fortitude save (DC 10 + the aes sídhe's HD + 1 for every consecutive successful save) every hour or take the following penalties:

Small Town: -1 to saves.
Large Town: -2 to saves.
Small City: -3 to saves, -1 to AC.
Large City: -4 to saves, -2 to AC.
Metropolis: -5 to saves, -3 to AC, -1 per HD to HP.
Larger than a metropolis: -6 to saves, -4 to AC, -2 per HD to HP.

These penalties last until the aes sídhe spends a number of hours equal to their HD meditating in a natural location (usually, that means outside the settlement, but some settlements may have parks, gardens, ponds, caverns or other unspoiled troves of nature for the aes sídhe to use. When all else fails, the aes sídhe may count as a "natural location" the open air above a settlement, provided the aes sídhe is at least 100 feet above the tallest building, and there aren't any unnatural artefacts or enchantments to disturb their meditation). Failing a save resets the "+1 for every consecutive successful save" clause in the save DC. Penalties to HP can never reduce the aes sídhe's maximum HP to less than 1 point per HD.

Vulnerability to Cold Iron (Ex): The aes sídhe take double damage from cold iron weapons. Cold iron weapons ignore the aes sídhe's Incorporeality ability (they treat the aes sídhe as though they were corporeal). Whenever the aes sídhe land a successful melee attack on a creature wearing cold iron armour or shields, the aes sídhe take 1d4 damage for every HD the struck creature possesses. Creatures wearing cold iron armour or shields gain a +2 to saves against the aes sídhe's supernatural or spell-like abilities. Creatures wearing both cold iron armour and a cold iron shield increase the save bonus to +4.

Incorporeality (Su): The aes sídhe gain the Revised Incorporeality Subtype in four stages.


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Since Incorporeality is a Supernatural ability, the aes sídhe become corporeal when they enter an Antimagic Field or a similar effect.

Fae Ancestry (Ex): At 2nd level, the aes sídhe are able to tap into the talents they held when they were alive. The aes sídhe choose one of the following ancestries:

Seer Ancestry: The aes sídhe tap into the power of premonition and omens. They gain a +2 racial bonus to Wisdom and Improved Initiative as a bonus feat.
Artist Ancestry: The aes sídhe tap into the power of fey music and art. They gain Bardic Music (as the bard's ability), with their aes sídhe level as their bard level.
Wild One Ancestry: The aes sídhe tap into the power of nature and the wilds. They gain Wild Empathy (as the druid's ability), with their aes sídhe level as their druid level.
Seducer Ancestry: The aes sídhe tap into the power of charm and allure. They add 1/4 of their HD (round down) to all their Charisma checks.
Warrior Ancestry: The aes sídhe tap into the power of archery and swordplay. They gain a +2 racial bonus to Dexterity and proficiency with one martial or exotic weapon of their choice.

Ancestry Weakness (Ex): When the aes sídhe choose an ancestry, they gain a certain disadvantage in accordance to their chosen ancestry.

Seer Ancestry: The aes sídhe gain a -2 to HP per level.
Artist Ancestry: The aes sídhe gain a -1 to HP per 2 levels, Verbal and Somatic components to all their spells and take a -2 to all rolls, saves and checks when in the area of a Silence spell or similar effect (these penalties stack with any others).
Wild One Ancestry: The aes sídhe gain a -1 to HP per level and cannot wear metal armour or shields or wield metal weapons, triggering their Urban Vulnerability (at Metropolis level) if they do so.
Seducer Ancestry: The aes sídhe gain a -1 to HP per level and a -5 penalty to Wisdom checks.
Warrior Ancestry: Enemies of the aes sídhe gain a +4 to attack rolls agains the aes sídhe if they're wielding cold iron weapons.

Ability Score Increase (Ex): At levels 2nd, 4th, 6th and 8th, the aes sídhe gain a +1 to Charisma, for a total of +4 at level 8th.

Ancestry Talent (Su): At levels 2nd, 4th, 6th, 8th and 10th, the aes sídhe gain a talent according to their chosen ancestry.

Talents that mimic a bard's abilities replace "bard" with "aes sídhe" and have their requirements adjusted to the level the abilities are gained for the aes sídhe (for example, an aes sídhe needs to be level 10 and have 13 ranks in Perform to activate Inspire Heroics instead of being level 15 and having 18 ranks in Perform). Any necessary DCs equal 10 + 1/2 the aes sídhe's HD + the aes sídhe's Charisma modifier.


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Ancestry Power (Sp): At levels 3rd, 5th, 7th and 9th, the aes sídhe gain a spell-like ability according to their chosen ancestry. Any necessary DCs equal 10 + 1/2 the aes sídhe's HD + the aes sídhe's Charisma modifier.

Talents that mimic a bard's abilities replace "bard" with "aes sídhe" and have their requirements adjusted to the level the abilities are gained for the aes sídhe (for example, an aes sídhe needs to be level 9 and have 12 ranks in Perform to activate Mass Suggestion instead of being level 18 and having 21 ranks in Perform).


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Boon of the Fae (Su): Once per day as a full-round action that provokes attacks of opportunity, the aes sídhe may grant a Boon of the Fae to a number of willing targets equal to half of their HD. The nature of the Boon depends on the aes sídhe's ancestry. The boon lasts for a number of minutes equal to the aes sídhe's HD.

Seer Ancestry: The targets gain a +2 bonus to Wisdom checks.
Artist Ancestry: The targets gain a +2 bonus to skill checks.
Wild One Ancestry: The targets gain the benefits of an Endure Elements and Resistance 5 to a single energy type (aes sídhe's choice for each individual target).
Seducer Ancestry: The targets gain a +2 bonus to Charisma checks.
Warrior Ancestry: The targets gain a +2 bonus to Strength or Dexterity checks (aes sídhe's choice for each individual target).

Emerald Flight (Su): At 5th level, the aes sídhe gain a Fly speed of 30 feet with perfect manoeuvrability. The aes sídhe may choose to gain the appearance of wings (of any kind, shape and colour) to accompany this change.

Ancestral Gift (Su): Once per day as a full-round action that provokes attacks of opportunity, the aes sídhe may touch a single willing target and transfer her all the Ancestry Talents they currently possess. The aes sídhe decides the exact duration of the transmission, but it may not be any shorter than a number of rounds equal to the aes sídhe's HD and no longer than a number of hours equal to the aes sídhe's HD. While the target benefits from the aes sídhe's Ancestry Talents, the aes sídhe do not benefit from them.

Emerald Oath (Su): Once per day, when the aes sídhe reach 0 HP or run the risk of being destroyed, they may make a single Will save (DC 15 + the aes sídhe's HD) to avoid their fate. If they succeed on the save, they are instead reduced to 1 HP and Staggered for 1d4 rounds. If they succeed on the save by more than 5 points, they are Staggered for only 1 round.

Ancestral Paragon (Ex): At level 10th, the aes sídhe become paragons of their ancestry.

Seer Ancestry: The aes sídhe gain a +2 caster level or HD to their Divination spells and spell-like abilities.
Artist Ancestry: The aes sídhe double the amount of uses of their bardic music ability.
Wild One Ancestry: The aes sídhe gain a +2 caster level or HD to their Evocation spells and spell-like abilities.
Seducer Ancestry: The aes sídhe gain a +2 caster level or HD to their Enchantment spells and spell-like abilities.
Warrior Ancestry: The aes sídhe gain DR/Cold Iron equal to half their HD (round up).

Wail of the Aes Sídhe (Sp): Once per day as a full-round action that provokes attacks of opportunity, the aes sídhe may unleash a wail that deals 1d12 sonic damage for every 2 HD the aes sídhe possess to every enemy on a 100 feet radius unless they make a Fortitude save (DC 10 + 1/2 the aes sídhe's HD + the aes sídhe's Charisma modifier) to halve the damage. Regardless of whether the save was successful, the enemies caught by the wail must make another Fortitude save (same DC) or become permanently deaf as per the Blindness/Deafness spell and a Will save (same DC) or become Dazed for 1d6 rounds. This is a [Sonic] effect. Aes sídhe are immune to their own Wail of the Aes Sídhe and that of other aes sídhe.


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« Last Edit: November 28, 2012, 11:32:38 PM by Shadowknight12 »

Offline Concerned Ninja Citizen

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Re: Aes Sídhe [Ascent Into The Light]
« Reply #1 on: November 11, 2012, 12:43:21 PM »
So I love this class to bits when it comes to flavor and the way you've executed it with abilities. Looks really fun and interesting with lots of variety and a pretty good power point.

Then there's a few things that completely turn me off. I'm not sure whether this is primarily a personal taste thing or more general gameplay problems so I'll give you my issues and you can do with them as you will:

Urban Powerlessness: Eek. That's really harsh. Pretty much every adventure is going to spend some amount of time in populated areas and these guys are effectively shut down for that time. They're not even options for campaigns that take place entirely or largely in cities.

I get that the anti urban thing is a big part of the mythos of this monster but it's a big part of the mythos of the druid too and they don't lose all their powers instantly upon entering a city.

Instead of a straight up nerf the moment you enter city limits, I'd suggest something based on will saves. Maybe make a save every day, with a scaling DC and you start to lose abilities when you start failing. You don't get them back until you've spent a full day outside city limits.

I'd also go with scaling penalties. Instead of a flat "can't cast spells" I'd give them a scaling spell failiure chance, maybe upgrading to a scaling action failiure chance.

Wild One Weakness: Again, you're crippling the character if they do something that every character has to do. Vow of Poverty sucks because, esp at higher levels, items are really really important and modest bonuses can't offset losing them. This is potentially even worse than VoP because you have to invest in crafting to be able to use any items at all.

In fact, RAW I don't think you can cast spells with material components unless you craft your component pouch and all components, some of which can't really be crafted.

I might go with something resembling the Fist of the Forest's Primal Living ability or, if the undead type removes too many of the drawbacks of that one, maybe a limitation on harming animals.

Warrior Ancestry If you choose to make your spells divine, the ability to cast spells in armor is redundant and you can get armor prof with a 1 level dip in any number of classes.

I might spread the feats you get in IV out over the first III levels, and maybe include some more combat feats from the "decent but  the prereqs suck" group, like Whirlwind Attack (or just make them fighter bonus feats and give a greater degree of customization.)

You could also consider bumping BAB and/or hitpoints. You're cutting spells/day pretty severely, you want something solid to make up for it.

EDIT: How does this classes' spellcasting (or that of the Mist Wraith, for that matter) interact with Prcs that advance casting? Can you advance this casting with Prcs? What happens if you take all 10 levels and then go into a Prc with casting advancement? If you can advance casting past 5th lv spells what does the list look like?
« Last Edit: November 11, 2012, 03:41:08 PM by Concerned Ninja Citizen »

Offline Shadowknight12

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Re: Aes Sídhe [Ascent Into The Light]
« Reply #2 on: November 11, 2012, 04:20:02 PM »
So I love this class to bits when it comes to flavor and the way you've executed it with abilities. Looks really fun and interesting with lots of variety and a pretty good power point.

Thanks! I'm glad it was well received. It took me a lot to come up with all the different abilities, but mixing up Fey and Undead was something I couldn't pass on. :love

Quote
Then there's a few things that completely turn me off. I'm not sure whether this is primarily a personal taste thing or more general gameplay problems so I'll give you my issues and you can do with them as you will:

Urban Powerlessness: Eek. That's really harsh. Pretty much every adventure is going to spend some amount of time in populated areas and these guys are effectively shut down for that time. They're not even options for campaigns that take place entirely or largely in cities.

I get that the anti urban thing is a big part of the mythos of this monster but it's a big part of the mythos of the druid too and they don't lose all their powers instantly upon entering a city.

Instead of a straight up nerf the moment you enter city limits, I'd suggest something based on will saves. Maybe make a save every day, with a scaling DC and you start to lose abilities when you start failing. You don't get them back until you've spent a full day outside city limits.

I'd also go with scaling penalties. Instead of a flat "can't cast spells" I'd give them a scaling spell failiure chance, maybe upgrading to a scaling action failiure chance.

What if I get rid of the inability to cast spells, attack and etc, and keep the rest? I was looking over it, and I realised that a seducer aes sídhe in a place larger than a metropolis would have anywhere from 1 to 10 HP. Would that solve the issue?

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Wild One Weakness: Again, you're crippling the character if they do something that every character has to do. Vow of Poverty sucks because, esp at higher levels, items are really really important and modest bonuses can't offset losing them. This is potentially even worse than VoP because you have to invest in crafting to be able to use any items at all.

In fact, RAW I don't think you can cast spells with material components unless you craft your component pouch and all components, some of which can't really be crafted.

I might go with something resembling the Fist of the Forest's Primal Living ability or, if the undead type removes too many of the drawbacks of that one, maybe a limitation on harming animals.

How about if I loose the bit where they can't carry or wear equipment they haven't crafted themselves and just keep the ones about armour, shields and weapon? Or is that not enough?

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Warrior Ancestry If you choose to make your spells divine, the ability to cast spells in armor is redundant and you can get armor prof with a 1 level dip in any number of classes.

I might spread the feats you get in IV out over the first III levels, and maybe include some more combat feats from the "decent but  the prereqs suck" group, like Whirlwind Attack (or just make them fighter bonus feats and give a greater degree of customization.)

You could also consider bumping BAB and/or hitpoints. You're cutting spells/day pretty severely, you want something solid to make up for it.

That was actually the point of forgiving AFC, to let warrior aes sídhe choose arcane as their magic type. Otherwise you HAVE to go divine because choosing arcane screws you over. This way, choosing arcane or divine is more or less inconsequential.

Yeah, the idea was to give the fighter archetype four bonus feats, because fighter builds are usually feat starved (and I chose the 4 most common feats that get requested as prereqs).

Spreading them out is a good idea, especially if I do as you say and fill that level with extra BAB and HP.

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EDIT: How does this classes' spellcasting (or that of the Mist Wraith, for that matter) interact with Prcs that advance casting? Can you advance this casting with Prcs? What happens if you take all 10 levels and then go into a Prc with casting advancement? If you can advance casting past 5th lv spells what does the list look like?

If the PrC is taken before 10th level, it advances spellcasting as normal. Otherwise, I'm afraid I chose to put an arbitrary halt in the class at 10th level to get a "proof of concept" out before messing with the upper echelons of D&D madness (spell levels 6+). So far, there's no support for playing above 10th level in terms of spellcasting. Furthermore, the implicit assumption I'm making in these classes is that there are no other classes or PrCs in the campaign, which is why it's so important that the Dusk Shadow, Mist Wraith and Aes Sídhe (along with the upcoming Silver Wight, High Lich, Knight-Spectre, Aspect Ghost and Warden Vampire) are balanced with each other, because they're meant to replace the base classes in the SRD as proof of concept for an undead-focused campaign.

Offline Concerned Ninja Citizen

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Re: Aes Sídhe [Ascent Into The Light]
« Reply #3 on: November 11, 2012, 10:12:34 PM »
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What if I get rid of the inability to cast spells, attack and etc, and keep the rest? I was looking over it, and I realised that a seducer aes sídhe in a place larger than a metropolis would have anywhere from 1 to 10 HP. Would that solve the issue?

That sounds good. I might still have it activated by a save, though maybe make the save once/hr with a cumulatively increasing DC.

Quote
How about if I loose the bit where they can't carry or wear equipment they haven't crafted themselves and just keep the ones about armour, shields and weapon? Or is that not enough?

Sounds great. It does make the Wild One weakness less severe than any of the others but I don't think that's a big problem.

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That was actually the point of forgiving AFC, to let warrior aes sídhe choose arcane as their magic type. Otherwise you HAVE to go divine because choosing arcane screws you over. This way, choosing arcane or divine is more or less inconsequential.

Yeah, the idea was to give the fighter archetype four bonus feats, because fighter builds are usually feat starved (and I chose the 4 most common feats that get requested as prereqs).

Spreading them out is a good idea, especially if I do as you say and fill that level with extra BAB and HP.

I'm not against the armor prof ability, I just don't think you should have that as the only benefit for the first 3 ability levels. What you outline there should be perfect.

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If the PrC is taken before 10th level, it advances spellcasting as normal. Otherwise, I'm afraid I chose to put an arbitrary halt in the class at 10th level to get a "proof of concept" out before messing with the upper echelons of D&D madness (spell levels 6+). So far, there's no support for playing above 10th level in terms of spellcasting. Furthermore, the implicit assumption I'm making in these classes is that there are no other classes or PrCs in the campaign, which is why it's so important that the Dusk Shadow, Mist Wraith and Aes Sídhe (along with the upcoming Silver Wight, High Lich, Knight-Spectre, Aspect Ghost and Warden Vampire) are balanced with each other, because they're meant to replace the base classes in the SRD as proof of concept for an undead-focused campaign.

That does make sense but you should probably put a blurb to that effect in the classes because that's somewhat different from how the rest of the classes in this project are intended to work.

What do you think about the potential of other people using these classes as normal monster classes rather than in a dedicated undead game?

Offline Shadowknight12

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Re: Aes Sídhe [Ascent Into The Light]
« Reply #4 on: November 11, 2012, 10:31:58 PM »
That sounds good. I might still have it activated by a save, though maybe make the save once/hr with a cumulatively increasing DC.

Hmmmmm, how about:

"Whenever the aes sídhe are within a settlement, they must make a Fortitude save (DC 10 + the aes sídhe's HD + 1 for every consecutive successful save) every hour or take the following penalties for 1 hour: [penalties]. Failing a save resets the "+1 for every consecutive successful save" clause in the save DC."

Is that what you had in mind?

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Sounds great. It does make the Wild One weakness less severe than any of the others but I don't think that's a big problem.

Well, it still leaves the Wild One as an unarmoured caster with only a quarterstaff and a d4 HD (and no Con to HP, because they're Undead). Without the other ancestries' defensive bonuses, they may well be the frailest type of aes sídhe. So I think that's enough balance.

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I'm not against the armor prof ability, I just don't think you should have that as the only benefit for the first 3 ability levels. What you outline there should be perfect.


I already changed it, left the armour proficiencies as they were and added Combat Reflexes, Dodge, Mobility, Spring Attack and Quick Draw as the bonus feats at every level. On the empty level, I added "+1 to HP and gets 3/4 BAB instead of 1/2."

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That does make sense but you should probably put a blurb to that effect in the classes because that's somewhat different from how the rest of the classes in this project are intended to work.

That's a good idea. I'll definitely do so.

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What do you think about the potential of other people using these classes as normal monster classes rather than in a dedicated undead game?

I would be very, very careful. If you take the Dusk Shadow, for example, it will, without shadow of a doubt, leave rogues obsoleted (unless, I suppose, they're extremely high-op rogues with plenty of dips and variants). And the Mist Wraith will get outclassed very easily by a proper cleric (as will a Wild One Aes Sídhe against a proper druid). So I'd say it depends on your group's composition and op level. If you think it'd fit without causing friction, then it should be usable (until level 10, at any rate). All my undead classes should play nice from levels 1 to 10 within a high T4 to low T2 range (mid-T3 being the optimal point for the rest of the party's characters).

Offline Concerned Ninja Citizen

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Re: Aes Sídhe [Ascent Into The Light]
« Reply #5 on: November 12, 2012, 01:17:08 PM »
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Hmmmmm, how about:

"Whenever the aes sídhe are within a settlement, they must make a Fortitude save (DC 10 + the aes sídhe's HD + 1 for every consecutive successful save) every hour or take the following penalties for 1 hour: [penalties]. Failing a save resets the "+1 for every consecutive successful save" clause in the save DC."

Is that what you had in mind?

Yes, except I would have the penalties last until the Aes Sidhe spends HD hours in a non settled area.

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Well, it still leaves the Wild One as an unarmoured caster with only a quarterstaff and a d4 HD (and no Con to HP, because they're Undead). Without the other ancestries' defensive bonuses, they may well be the frailest type of aes sídhe. So I think that's enough balance.

They'll use Dragonhide or Ironwood armor and Ironwood weapons like Druids do. Still, I don't think they're unbalanced like that.

The Warrior ancestry fixes look good.

Offline Shadowknight12

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Re: Aes Sídhe [Ascent Into The Light]
« Reply #6 on: November 12, 2012, 01:26:06 PM »
Yes, except I would have the penalties last until the Aes Sidhe spends HD hours in a non settled area.

That's better, less bookkeeping. I added the possibility of meditating in "natural locations" within a settlement to make Urban Powerlessness less disruptive in a campaign. It works well for using the aes sídhe in a party of living characters, as the aes sídhe can meditate for hours while the rest of the party sleeps.

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They'll use Dragonhide or Ironwood armor and Ironwood weapons like Druids do. Still, I don't think they're unbalanced like that.

Yes, but they still have to get the equipment to be Ghost Touched (or blow a feat in the Ghostly Grasp feat from Libris Mortis) so it doesn't come entirely cheap.

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The Warrior ancestry fixes look good.

Thanks! Anything else that caught your eye?

Offline oslecamo

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Re: Aes Sídhe [Ascent Into The Light]
« Reply #7 on: November 20, 2012, 03:41:42 PM »
Now that I finally got some time to skip over this, altough I can see what you're going for here, I must say the abilities are all over the place.
-Keening deals 2d8 damage at first level. That's way over any other aoo others get at start and is pretty much an area save-or-die for everybody but the toughest dudes.
-Fae Ancestry (seducer) does nothing for 3 levels but reduce your HP while the others are all giving significant bonus. Bardic one is both poorly worded (because counterson/fascinate/courage/etc are already included in bardic music), and then you give out the uber heroics 5 whole levels earlier than an actual bard. The penalty is also the most irrelevant since most spells already have that kind of components and very few enemies can be expected to be packing Silence. Second OP is Seer giving immunity to suprise (something a fullcaster would normally need to work a lot harder to get) with bonus, feat, extra Wis and AC, altough their penalty of half spells known actually is significant.
-Ah, wait, the powers. Seducer is geting charm monster and dominate monster when again? How many times per day??? You realize those things last days per level? And that you're still a fullcaster?
-Wail of the Aes Sídhe is screaming friendly fire.
-Need save DCs for the powers and stuff.

Overall, this class has just too much packed as it is. You're gaining two abilities per level plus pretty strong spellcasting. This is significantly stronger than the mist wraith, that wasn't geting spells and abilities that you're only suposed to get multiple levels later left and right, not to mention the diferent paths are drastically diferent in power (warrior gets one 3rd level SLA when seducer gets multiple 5th level ones for one).

Assuming you ignore all other classes (this kinda makes the bard cry after all). Which I'm not allowing because this place is still for stuff that should be apliable to your average game.

Offline Shadowknight12

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Re: Aes Sídhe [Ascent Into The Light]
« Reply #8 on: November 26, 2012, 06:44:46 PM »
Now that I finally got some time to skip over this, altough I can see what you're going for here, I must say the abilities are all over the place.
-Keening deals 2d8 damage at first level. That's way over any other aoo others get at start and is pretty much an area save-or-die for everybody but the toughest dudes.

It's also friendly fire, but you have a point. I'll reduce it to 1d8 and then up it to 2d8 at 5HD (putting it slightly behind a level-equivalent fireball).

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-Fae Ancestry (seducer) does nothing for 3 levels but reduce your HP while the others are all giving significant bonus.

That's on purpose to balance the powers it gets on the spell-like ability front.

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Bardic one is both poorly worded (because counterson/fascinate/courage/etc are already included in bardic music),

Is that so? The way I read it, Bardic Music in and of itself does absolutely nothing. It's the other abilities (countersong, etc) that can be activated by spending a use of Bardic Music.

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and then you give out the uber heroics 5 whole levels earlier than an actual bard.

If I replace it, is it fine for this project to invent a new Bardic Music type?

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The penalty is also the most irrelevant since most spells already have that kind of components and very few enemies can be expected to be packing Silence.

Holding off on modifying this until you give me your opinion on something I'm proposing below.

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Second OP is Seer giving immunity to suprise (something a fullcaster would normally need to work a lot harder to get) with bonus, feat, extra Wis and AC, altough their penalty of half spells known actually is significant.

I wasn't really sold on the immunity to surprise, but for what it's worth, I pulled it straight out of Divine Oracle from Complete Divine, who gets it at level 10 (though it assumes a certain number of levels of a previous class, granted).

I moved the Wis to AC bit as the capstone and then filled the empty spot with "The aes sídhe instinctively knows all the cardinal directions at all times, and can tell which way is up and down regardless of light conditions or its own position."

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-Ah, wait, the powers. Seducer is geting charm monster and dominate monster when again? How many times per day??? You realize those things last days per level? And that you're still a fullcaster?

They're not getting Dominate Monster. They're getting different versions of Dominate Person, which I thought lasted the same as Charm Person (should've double-checked). I modified them all so that they all have the duration of Charm Person (hour/level).

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-Wail of the Aes Sídhe is screaming friendly fire.

That's intentional.

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-Need save DCs for the powers and stuff.

Added.

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Overall, this class has just too much packed as it is. You're gaining two abilities per level plus pretty strong spellcasting. This is significantly stronger than the mist wraith, that wasn't geting spells and abilities that you're only suposed to get multiple levels later left and right, not to mention the diferent paths are drastically diferent in power (warrior gets one 3rd level SLA when seducer gets multiple 5th level ones for one).

What if I get rid of the spellcasting? I could give all paths a bunch of animal and plant-related SLAs, and then I could replace all the downsides of the fullcaster and bard types with a two flaws, one major (-1 to HP per level) and one minor (like the ones for the bard path and the druid path), and then, for the warrior path, I could use a single minor flaw (something like "foes wielding cold iron get a +2 to attack rolls versus the aes sídhe"). And trim the seducer's SLAs a little. Would that be more balanced, or is the spellcasting too important to get rid of?

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Assuming you ignore all other classes (this kinda makes the bard cry after all). Which I'm not allowing because this place is still for stuff that should be apliable to your average game.

If I remove the spells, wouldn't this make the bard viable again? Sure, the aes sídhe still have SLAs, but one of the perks of spells is versatility, and SLAs don't give you that.

Offline oslecamo

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Re: Aes Sídhe [Ascent Into The Light]
« Reply #9 on: November 28, 2012, 05:59:17 PM »
Quote
-Fae Ancestry (seducer) does nothing for 3 levels but reduce your HP while the others are all giving significant bonus.

That's on purpose to balance the powers it gets on the spell-like ability front.
The first power it gets is charm person, which is actually the weakest of the all the paths, and then it explodes in power later on. That's not balance.

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Bardic one is both poorly worded (because counterson/fascinate/courage/etc are already included in bardic music),

Is that so? The way I read it, Bardic Music in and of itself does absolutely nothing. It's the other abilities (countersong, etc) that can be activated by spending a use of Bardic Music.
Precisely. There would be no point on writing it on the bard class if it did nothing on its own. Plus it's how I've been doing for other singing monsters and nobody ever complained.

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and then you give out the uber heroics 5 whole levels earlier than an actual bard.

If I replace it, is it fine for this project to invent a new Bardic Music type?
Sure, as long as you don't get too crazy. Heroics has given me plenty of headaches before already.

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-Wail of the Aes Sídhe is screaming friendly fire.

That's intentional.
Irrelevant. One of the key points of this project is to make monsters party-friendly, not to stick with the old "monsters love to be with their own kind and hate everybody else".

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Overall, this class has just too much packed as it is. You're gaining two abilities per level plus pretty strong spellcasting. This is significantly stronger than the mist wraith, that wasn't geting spells and abilities that you're only suposed to get multiple levels later left and right, not to mention the diferent paths are drastically diferent in power (warrior gets one 3rd level SLA when seducer gets multiple 5th level ones for one).

What if I get rid of the spellcasting? I could give all paths a bunch of animal and plant-related SLAs, and then I could replace all the downsides of the fullcaster and bard types with a two flaws, one major (-1 to HP per level) and one minor (like the ones for the bard path and the druid path), and then, for the warrior path, I could use a single minor flaw (something like "foes wielding cold iron get a +2 to attack rolls versus the aes sídhe"). And trim the seducer's SLAs a little. Would that be more balanced, or is the spellcasting too important to get rid of?
By all means get rid of the spellcasting to make room for the other stuff.

Offline Shadowknight12

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Re: Aes Sídhe [Ascent Into The Light]
« Reply #10 on: November 28, 2012, 11:26:54 PM »
The first power it gets is charm person, which is actually the weakest of the all the paths, and then it explodes in power later on. That's not balance.

Reworked it to Charm Person and Sleep, then Enthrall and Suggestion, then Charm Monster (with the lowered duration), then Dominate Person and Dominate Fey (with the lowered durations).

Precisely. There would be no point on writing it on the bard class if it did nothing on its own. Plus it's how I've been doing for other singing monsters and nobody ever complained.

That made me redesign the entire Artist path. I hope it's better now.

Sure, as long as you don't get too crazy. Heroics has given me plenty of headaches before already.

I chose to go with spell-like abilities.

Irrelevant. One of the key points of this project is to make monsters party-friendly, not to stick with the old "monsters love to be with their own kind and hate everybody else".

That wasn't the intention, it was more aimed towards "use this carefully", but eh, changed.

By all means get rid of the spellcasting to make room for the other stuff.

Done. I dumped most of the animal and plant stuff on a big list at the start (giving out around 2 SLAs per level), then spread out the rest between the artist, the wild one and the seducer.

I also upped the HD to a d6 and modified the flaws to make them frailer.

EDIT: I also greatly reduced the range of Keening. It starts at 5 ft, then progresses to 10, 20 and 30.
« Last Edit: November 28, 2012, 11:29:30 PM by Shadowknight12 »

Offline oslecamo

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Re: Aes Sídhe [Ascent Into The Light]
« Reply #11 on: November 29, 2012, 06:36:18 AM »
Ok, a thing just keeps irking me-Why do you need to spread each path trough multiple abilities? It would be a lot easier to read if you grouped all the stuff of each ancestry togheter and then went "if you pick this path:
-at level 2 gains X,
-at level 3 gains Y,
-at level 4 gains Z",
 etc.

The "base" SLAs upgrade with HD, I think you meant with level, otherwise it's a bit too much for just a 1 level investment.

Artist path still looking the strongest since the Bardic Music scales much better than any of the other starting ones and you keep getting other stuff. Artist path should simply not give anything when you unlock new bardic songs (3rd, 6th, 9th).

Speaking of which, no trying to sneak in unique bard spells before an actual bard could get them.

Seducer path's starting ability seems somewhat redudant with the first talent (bonus to cha checks and bonus to cha skills).