Disable Proximity Trigger Traps

[dumah87]

Proximity
This trigger activates the trap when a creature approaches within a certain distance of it. A proximity trigger differs from a location trigger in that the creature need not be standing in a particular square. Creatures that are flying can spring a trap with a proximity trigger but not one with a location trigger. Mechanical proximity triggers are extremely sensitive to the slightest change in the air. This makes them useful only in places such as crypts, where the air is unusually still.

The proximity trigger used most often for magic device traps is the alarm spell. Unlike when the spell is cast, an alarm spell used as a trigger can have an area that’s no larger than the area the trap is meant to protect.

Some magic device traps have special proximity triggers that activate only when certain kinds of creatures approach. For example, a detect good spell can serve as a proximity trigger on an evil altar, springing the attached trap only when someone of good alignment gets close enough to it.

How can a Rogue find this kind of traps and disable if he/she can't touch it?

[dipolartech]

Disable Device allows the rogue to use the quantum superposition effect to both be close enough to disable the trap and be far enough away not to trigger the trap at the same time.

[zook1shoe]

Longspoon thieves tools (complete scoundrel)

[dumah87]

Disable Device allows the rogue to use the quantum superposition effect to both be close enough to disable the trap and be far enough away not to trigger the trap at the same time.

as noted here
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/search.htm

you need to be within 10feet to search for (and discover) a trap.

So, IMO, you can't find it if you're not close to it.

[dipolartech]

That does make it a little more complicated.....

Unless you consider that being within 10' feet of the range of the trap is close enough to satisfy the requirement.

[phaedrusxy]

UMD a Wand of Detect Magic, then pull out an animal from her Grey Bag of Tricks to set it off? If it has a "proximity sensor", then it sure as hell must be magical. Unless it also has an automatic reset (that works instantaneously) this should work. If it does auto-reset, you could always destroy it from range, I guess...

But yeah... this is just more proof that the ability to find traps is itself a trap. 

[dumah87]

Sorry for the late reply!

Are you telling me that there are traps that cannot be disabled?

[Wiggins]

Well, if a trap did have both proximity and an instant automatic reset, it would need a rogue to find it, set it off, take or save against the damage or effect, then disable the device

[Jackinthegreen]

Sorry for the late reply!

Are you telling me that there are traps that cannot be disabled?

They can be disabled alright.  The question is whether one can disable them without setting them off, which looks like a no.  Perhaps using hide and move silently would do it?  Or invisibility.

[phaedrusxy]

Sorry for the late reply!

Are you telling me that there are traps that cannot be disabled?

They can be disabled alright.  The question is whether one can disable them without setting them off, which looks like a no.  Perhaps using hide and move silently would do it?  Or invisibility.

Perhaps you could disarm it with Ranged Legerdemain, if it has a radius of less than 30 feet, but a straight rogue would be SoL.

[FlaminCows]

Well, there are other methods. A trap is an object, no? I suppose, then, that you could disable the trap by blowing it up. Ten foot pole plus some sort of acid or explosive. Similarly, you could detect proximity traps by tying a rat to the end of a ten foot pole and waving it ahead of you.

If carrying around ten foot poles is too much of a bother, you could use rope instead.

[CaptRory]

What if you were ethereal or otherwise out of phase?

"Mechanical proximity triggers are extremely sensitive to the slightest change in the air. This makes them useful only in places such as crypts, where the air is unusually still"

If you didn't disturb the air I don't think it would go off unless it had some magical trigger then you'd have to spoof that. If it was a basic mechanical trigger I'd let the rogue make a stealth check to sneak up on it. If the rogue had a way of examining it I'd let him use a UMD check to fool magical sensors. I'd do that anyway but without seeing the device I'd make the player guess as to what he'd have to fake to get close.

[FlaminCows]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure ethereal creatures can't interact with the material plane. They can see it, but they must manifest in it before they can touch it.

[CaptRory]

That was more my point. You could get up to the trap, then become "real" to disarm it. Once you're there and can examine it you'll know what you need to do.

[Wiggins]

If proximity triggers are based off of alarm, you'd have to "become real" without ever touching the area of the trap. I don't see how that's possible.

[CaptRory]

I'm sure I don't know. Maybe have someonethrow a dispel magic on it first.

[nijineko]

the rogue trapfinding ability would allow them to detect the alarmed area before entering it. i imagine that either the same, or another successful search and/or disable device roll would let them figure out that the area involved without triggering it.

now the real question is do they have to be next to the locus of the trap itself or can they disable the alarm effect simply by being next to the warded area? does the disabling of a magical trap have to be on the center of the sensor, or can it be done anywhere that the sensed area covers?

i would think that an area based magical effect could potentially be interacted with / shorted out from anywhere the magical aura is interacted with, but that's just my feeling. any rules to be found about this?

so in such a case as described, disabling the alarm effect would render the trap useless.