Author Topic: A Great White Wyrm for my PC's to fight at 20th level... now with always-on AMF!  (Read 15806 times)

Offline Unbeliever

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From personal experience, I will tell you that Final Strike can be quite rueful against the PCs.  Granted, yours are like 20th level gestalt, so I can't seem them having too much to complain about ...

Offline vaz

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First thing to note - Abjurant Champion requires a level of Sorcerer per RAW. I know you're DM, so feel free to hand wave this, but it advances a classes spellcasting, which a Dragon does not. I can't locate Andvari cursed by a quick google, however. Help a brother out?

Looking at your feats;

Combat Reflexes - Only reason I can see this being useful is for Spellcasting Harrier. However, as a Great Wyrm Dragon, if you're close enough to be threatening them during their turn, they are close enough to charge you. With Loredrake Sorcerer 1/Abjurant Champion 5, you're Effectively a 21st level Sorcerer, and with a Caster Level Red Wizards dream of - you don't have need of forcing binary concentration checks on them. It would be like a Fighter increasing his AC when it is already 20+ higher than anything he is facing.

Weapon Proficiency (Warhammer) - why? Is this a bonus feat?

Awaken Spell Resistance - what have you traded your Spell Resistance for to make this worthwhile? Andvari-Cursed? Only thing I can think of that refers to Awaken Spell Resistance is Xorvintaal. No need to do that unless playing Xorvintaal - in which case one as capable as a Great Wyrm Dragon shouldn't really be interacting with the PC's anyway - even if he doesn't have spellcasting, bear in mind that his horde is triple wealth, and at ECL42 (assuming that the progression is similar - you should have around 50Million gp to spend - even assuming that 1/10th of that is on his person, he still beats a 4 person party's total WBL by 20% ish, not to mention the defences he has had built into his chosen battleground (because he will have had that happen, definately).

Power Attack - what are you getting close for?

Fast Healing - over the course of a 20 round battle, you'll recover around 10% of your max HP. Fast Healing is a player only/thematic feat, that lets martial characters operate at full effectiveness over the course of an adventuring day without taking the party's resources. It's only real use is recovery from downing - although to be honest, if something can drop you to -1 to -9, it's probably going to take you to -10 anyway at this level. And name a 20 round battle at pretty much any level, I'd strug

Final Strike - 20d6 Cold and 21d6 Piercing damage is nothing to a party, especially one expecting to go up to a Great Wyrm White Dragon, they will a) engage out of range of such, and b) they will probably be immune to the cold. Piercing is a bit of a pain, but 60ft range is very close to be, and they should have plenty of resources to get the dead character back to life.

Permanent Emanation (Widened Antimagic Field) - Make it a Selective Spell, then you can choose to actually cast your spells on yourself.

Pick up Arcane Disciple (Strength/Protection) for Spell Immunity. Alternatively, Pride for Greater Spell Immunity. Although the strict RAW doesn't cause it, I understand that the Cold-type immunity is as a result of its Cold Type - although it does make things hard for me, I allow Energy Substitution to chance Shivering Touch's immunity clause as a DM.

Metabreath feats - Recover Breath, and Entangling Breath work quite well here. Less well than earlier, but a 60ft cone is big. Tempest Breath for Hurricane Force winds fits well with White Dragon.

Obtain Familiar Feat is a good feat to get - I like picking up Improved Familiar for Mirror Mephits, but that can be a bit broken. Why Obtain Familiar? Because there's a Dragon Feat to gain Share Spells at over a mile, and have a massively powerful creature.

In regards to Sorcerer 1 dip - it's really good.

Sorcerer 1 nets you a normal Familiar (with abilities based on your Dragon HD - i.e, really good - although you may want Obtain Familiar so that you can get yourself the Familiar's Master level abilities), which you can trade for either Dragonblood Sorcerer, Metamagic Specialist, or, my favourite, Divine Companion.

You can store up to your CL of spells into the Divine Companion in exchange for a CL amount of rounds worth of stored spell levels - this can either be 21-25, or if you allow your Abjurant Champion to benefit it (and why not? It's kind of its thing), in conjunction with a ton of Memento Majicka's (you have 50m GP, 41 L1 Memento Majicka is 61500gp - a little over 0.1% of your total wealth).

Offline ksbsnowowl

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Andvari-Cursed is a plot-element specific to my campaign.  The dragon wasn't originally a dragon; a curse has turned him into one, and he has retained a few aspects of his former form (namely, the regeneration ability of an Ice Troll).

First thing to note - Abjurant Champion requires a level of Sorcerer per RAW.
Eh, I can't see anyone ever making such a distinction in anything but a message board.  Though I wouldn't be opposed to making him one level higher ;)

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Looking at your feats;

Combat Reflexes - Only reason I can see this being useful is for Spellcasting Harrier.
Yep.

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Weapon Proficiency (Warhammer) - why? Is this a bonus feat?
To qualify for Abjurant Champion. No, it's not a bonus feat.

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Awaken Spell Resistance - what have you traded your Spell Resistance for to make this worthwhile?
I didn't trade away my spell resistance.  But Awaken Spell Resistance sets your SR to your Dragon HD total.  Taking this feat increases his SR from 27 to 36.

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Power Attack - what are you getting close for?
Because he was originally a troll, and he occasionally likes to smash things.  It works well on a fly-by attack with Wraithstrike.  If the PC's somehow lock him down (trust me, my PC's are good at doing that), it gives him a high-damage option.

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Fast Healing -  Fast Healing is a player only/thematic feat...
Yep, thematic with a former warlord troll.  Fast Healing also interacts with Regeneration in a way such that his Regeneration functions as Regen 7 until he has no non-lethal damage remaining.

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Final Strike - 20d6 Cold and 21d6 Piercing damage is nothing to a party...
Which they will have no reason to suspect, at all, prior to the first time they have to fight him (note the simulacrum, and the stasis clone).  It'll be a nice little blast they'll have to survive before the real dragon shows up one or two rounds later (he was buffing himself the whole time the party was fighting the simulacrum).

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Permanent Emanation (Widened Antimagic Field) - Make it a Selective Spell, then you can choose to actually cast your spells on yourself.
It's cheesily horrific enough as it is.  Can't wait to see the look on their faces the first time he turns it on, then off and on again.

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Pick up Arcane Disciple (Strength/Protection) for Spell Immunity. ... I allow Energy Substitution to chance Shivering Touch's immunity clause as a DM.
I don't.  If he were anything other than a White Dragon, he would have spell immunity.

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In regards to Sorcerer 1 dip - it's really good.

Sorcerer 1 nets you a normal Familiar, which you can trade for either Dragonblood Sorcerer, Metamagic Specialist, or, my favourite, Divine Companion.
Oooo... that would be nice.  Thematic to the setting as well...  The Healing ability is sort of "meh" (he has healing covered via Stone Body + Transmute Mud to Rock, or a Limited Wish -> Heal* in a pinch), but the resistance bonus granted by the Shielding ability would be quite nice, and would last for 41 (42?) rounds... though the deflection bonus wouldn't stack with Scintillating Scales, but would just add on top of the natural armor if he hadn't cast Scintillating Scales...

I'll have to give that one some thought.  My PC's will be attacking this dragon about three sessions from now, so I need to solidify all of this by then.

*Heal is a 5th level Adept spell

Offline Meiliken

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Why not give him a Starmantle Cloak, and another item with constant Mystic Shield.  With Starmantle, he can only be hit with magic weapons.  Mundane ones get turned into harmless light.  Mystic Shield makes all weapons mundane to him, and can only be hit with 7th lvl or higher spells.  There you go, now go to town with whatever you wish for him since he is near untouchable.
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Offline vaz

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I though Abj Champion required only proficiency, which is gained via Dragon Type?

Offline linklord231

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I though Abj Champion required only proficiency, which is gained via Dragon Type?

Dragon type doesn't grant any proficiencies except for simple weapons, and even then only in humanoid form. 
I'm not arguing, I'm explaining why I'm right.

Offline vaz

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You learn something new every day.

However - if taking a dip in Sorcerer; http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm

Battle Sorcerer provides 2 feats - it frees up Martial Proficiency, and takes you to 42HD.

Offline ksbsnowowl

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Battle Sorcerer would be counter-productive.  It would either progress separately than the dragon's native casting, or it would inflict the Battle Sorcerer penalties upon the dragon casting that it stacks with.  Neither gets us a good result (insofar as "Abjurant Champ can't progress dragon casting alone," and this trying to become 100% raw legal.)

Offline Keldar

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I though Abj Champion required only proficiency, which is gained via Dragon Type?

Dragon type doesn't grant any proficiencies except for simple weapons, and even then only in humanoid form.
His original Giant Type provided Martial though.  Does changing type cost you proficiencies ever?

Offline ksbsnowowl

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I though Abj Champion required only proficiency, which is gained via Dragon Type?

Dragon type doesn't grant any proficiencies except for simple weapons, and even then only in humanoid form.
His original Giant Type provided Martial though.  Does changing type cost you proficiencies ever?
I'm treating him as a dragon in all mechanical aspects, aside from him having regeneration.

Offline ksbsnowowl

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So I caved and gave him Warhammer proficiency as a bonus feat; really wanted him to have Silent Spell.  Here are the final versions of him (Original, Simulacrum, and the Clone that is buffed with Devil's Ego and Draconic Might, and a Clone that doesn't have those buffs):

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http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20040921a

Code: [Select]
Invisible Spot DC Spot DC
Thing to Notice to Locate*
Active creature 20 40
Living creature holding still 30 50
Inanimate object, unliving
creature holding still, or
completely immobile creature 40 60

*Locate means to know what square it is in; i.e. - you still have a 50% miss chance.


Invisibility and Hiding

As noted in the description for the Hide skill, you gain a +20 bonus on Hide checks if you're moving and +40 on Hide checks if you're not moving.

To make a Hide check at all, you need some sort of concealment or cover, and that applies even when you're invisible and the creatures trying to spot you can't see invisible things. Invisibility gives you total concealment, but spotting something invisible carries its own Spot DCs and you can't make yourself harder to see without a little extra help from your surroundings.

When making your Hide check, apply all the modifiers that normally apply to the check (such as Armor Check penalties and penalties for your movement). Perceptive readers will note that you're effectively paying a double penalty for moving here because the bonus for being invisible is lower and you take a Hide check penalty for that movement as well. That, however, is the nature of invisibility in the D&D game. Any movement makes you easier to spot while you're invisible, whereas your speed makes it harder for you to hide and the effect gets worse the faster you go.

Hunnar Atiltroll
(click to show/hide)


Simulacrum
(click to show/hide)


Clone - unbuffed
(click to show/hide)


Clone - Buffed w/ Draconic Might & Devil's Ego
(click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: September 29, 2014, 07:18:33 PM by ksbsnowowl »