Author Topic: What would make the barbarian better?  (Read 6424 times)

Offline Zelkon

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What would make the barbarian better?
« on: December 04, 2012, 08:29:49 PM »
So, I'm just wondering. What cool abilities could the barbarian use to be better at doing his stuff?

Offline Solo

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Re: What would make the barbarian better?
« Reply #1 on: December 04, 2012, 08:41:11 PM »
Pounce.
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Offline sirpercival

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Re: What would make the barbarian better?
« Reply #2 on: December 04, 2012, 08:46:04 PM »
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Offline Prime32

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Re: What would make the barbarian better?
« Reply #3 on: December 04, 2012, 08:46:30 PM »
Dispelling blows. Affecting multiple squares with each attack. Immunity to negative mind-affecting effects (while still allowing bardic music etc.).
« Last Edit: December 04, 2012, 08:53:26 PM by Prime32 »

Offline Cyclone Joker

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Re: What would make the barbarian better?
« Reply #4 on: December 04, 2012, 09:14:19 PM »
Maneuver access.

Offline veekie

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Re: What would make the barbarian better?
« Reply #5 on: December 04, 2012, 10:03:41 PM »
Maneuver access.
They don't actually need that much, Barbarians are good at breaking stuff with a big weapon. It's just all the other things.

Anyway, what kind of barbarian, first and foremost? Does play style matter?
If play style is to remain largely simple, then you'd want to work on the passives:
-Temporary hit points/damage reduction/energy resistance/spell resistance. Self-recovery abilities(hp, ability damage, conditions) General being tough stuffs.
-Passive bonuses to 'action' skills, like changing Jump distance formulae(so you can actually get anywhere by jumping), etc.
-Effective size enhancement. Not just damage, but the reach.
-Get high level staples via supersized skills, pseudo-flight especially(for the rest they can piggyback, it's not strictly necessary on a daily basis).
Basically just kick the shit out of everything at maximum force.

If you want moderate complexity: War Frenzy. Actual selectable abilities and broad based capabilities, but overall not too complex to run or build.

If you want high complexity, then it'd be rage power options, everything can be made stronger by incorporating a casting mechanic, but consider what you're losing in the process from the play experience of a barbarian.
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Offline Nanshork

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Re: What would make the barbarian better?
« Reply #6 on: December 04, 2012, 10:18:07 PM »
This is my favorite Barbarian rewrite.

Offline Childe

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Re: What would make the barbarian better?
« Reply #7 on: December 04, 2012, 11:24:00 PM »
Having disintegrate vs. objects on hit would be cool and give it some weird and fun utility, but then we're back to spells and spellcasting being the solution. And once again another class could do it better.

I guess the question is, how good do you want it? Barbarians can already deal plenty of damage with plenty of accuracy to take down anything they can actually attack.

Their DR scales poorly. Giving them an ability to create tremors either as a stomp or at the end of any jump could also be cool.

Making rage shorter (half-Constitution modifier rounds, perhaps) but making it per-encounter could also be neat. Then again, I dislike "per day" as a usage in general, so it could just be me. Or give rage a drawback and make it always an available option. (Fatigue would still prevent you from reentering a rage immediately after leaving one by default.)
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Offline Amechra

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Re: What would make the barbarian better?
« Reply #8 on: December 05, 2012, 12:14:19 AM »
This is my personal favorite when it comes to Barbarian fixes that go the "rage power" route, since it really isn't that complicated to build or run.

Also, it is what "7" had levels in when a friend and I played a 1-shot where he was the only survivor of a group of Orcs that we pretty much hired as bodyguards (we were rooting for him to be the last one standing, so it was all good.) That was a fun game.

Anyway, I kinda agree with the idea that Barbarians should be simple to play; I think this can be handled by throwing some extra damage capabilities on them when they rage (so not all Barbarians are forced into Power Attack, though it is damn good), maybe adding some survival-focused abilities (hell, maybe something like a Bard's Bardic music, or a Archivist's Dark Knowledge, where they get some neat scaling benefits with Survival checks? After all, a Barbarian should be able to survive in the wild tundras, damn it!)

Also, some abilities that boost them in a surprise round, or that gives the ability to go into one round rages for some decent abilities (like raging in a surprise round to get out of being flat-footed, and then turning around and smashing the guy who jumped your party in the face.)
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Offline Unbeliever

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Re: What would make the barbarian better?
« Reply #9 on: December 05, 2012, 10:21:07 AM »
There are lots of homebrew suggestions in this thread, which I'm sure are quite excellent and I'm not going to add to.  I wanted to add, though, that no doubt owing to the Conan inspiration, Barbarians are kind of a grab bag.  In addition to smashing things with big weapons (and there really should be support for a few other styles of combat, e.g., assegai and shield, some caber tossing), they are swift, athletic, and self-reliant. 

The problem is, though, I don't think they can really go anywhere with those abilities.  Being sufficiently fast and able to leap over obstacles or barrel through them and pounce might be a good place to start.  I wouldn't want to go too far into the nature themed stuff b/c that would seem to step on the Ranger's toes, provided it was build so as to not suck.  But, something where those non-combat abilities that seem natural and closely-tied to mighty thews would be nice. 

And, that wouldn't necessarily undermine the idea of a Barbarian being easy to play.  It's not all that esoteric to know that you can jump really high and far, climb anything, and still be able to smash the target in its oh so sensitive face.

Offline Amechra

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Re: What would make the barbarian better?
« Reply #10 on: December 05, 2012, 10:50:29 AM »
Being able to ignore some things due to your mighty thews would be nice (stuff like ignoring hardness, and later doing stuff like applying a disintigrating effect on objects to your attacks, so you can break that puny mountain to bits!)
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Offline Empirate

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Re: What would make the barbarian better?
« Reply #11 on: December 07, 2012, 10:25:20 AM »
I'd do Ranger/Barbarian gestalt and call it a day. Maybe add full AC progression on top of that, and come up with combat style chains to support sword-and-board as well as two-handed.

Oh, and I'd obviously do away with normal Rangers and Barbarians.

Offline Unbeliever

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Re: What would make the barbarian better?
« Reply #12 on: December 07, 2012, 02:17:29 PM »
I'd do Ranger/Barbarian gestalt and call it a day. Maybe add full AC progression on top of that, and come up with combat style chains to support sword-and-board as well as two-handed.
The problem is Ranger doesn't really add much to what a Barbarian already has.  It's a few bonus feats and a few skill ranks.  Something is better than nothing, I suppose, but it's not much. 

Offline ImperatorK

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Re: What would make the barbarian better?
« Reply #13 on: December 07, 2012, 03:13:50 PM »
I combined PF Barb with PF Fighter, CW Samurai, CW Swashbuckler and PHB2 Knight and changed some things slightly. Now it's a generic warrior class that you can make most archetypical warrior concepts from.
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Offline awaken_D_M_golem

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Re: What would make the barbarian better?
« Reply #14 on: December 07, 2012, 04:09:22 PM »
Having disintegrate vs. objects on hit would be cool and give it some weird and fun utility,

Their DR scales poorly. Giving them an ability to create tremors either as a stomp or at the end of any jump could also be cool.

Making rage shorter (half-Constitution modifier rounds, perhaps) but making it per-encounter could also be neat. Then again, I dislike "per day" as a usage in general, so it could just be me. Or give rage a drawback and make it always an available option. (Fatigue would still prevent you from reentering a rage immediately after leaving one by default.)

... yeah, tie it some more to Earth Elemental -type stuff.
4e Prone effects are in this ballpark.  Ignore Slow effects.
Walk On Mud ~= Ignore Difficult Terrain.
lite healing surge kinda effect, to Delay Fatigue / Delay Exhaustion
etc
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Offline Jackinthegreen

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Re: What would make the barbarian better?
« Reply #15 on: December 07, 2012, 05:25:44 PM »
Powerful Rage: Gain the benefits of Powerful Build during Rage.  If the character already has Powerful Build as a racial then it becomes a size category larger instead.

Offline Empirate

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Re: What would make the barbarian better?
« Reply #16 on: December 08, 2012, 05:04:33 AM »
I'd do Ranger/Barbarian gestalt and call it a day. Maybe add full AC progression on top of that, and come up with combat style chains to support sword-and-board as well as two-handed.
The problem is Ranger doesn't really add much to what a Barbarian already has.  It's a few bonus feats and a few skill ranks.  Something is better than nothing, I suppose, but it's not much.

Well, it gives you most everything a warrior of the wild would like to have. Barbarians already get the ability to wreck level-appropriate foes (that they can reach...) in a few swings with raw HP damage. They get some good (though not perfect) resiliency through high HP and stuff like Uncanny Dodge. Rangers, on the other hand, add a lot of versatility through lots of skillpoints, some wilderness-themed abilities, some spells, and the Animal Companion (especially if you bring it up to full progression). I think the two taken together would give you what you'd want without changing the basic Barbarian idea too much. Granted, it's not tier 1, but I'd definitely put it in tier 3, which is the nicest tier there is anyway (IMO).

Offline Captnq

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Re: What would make the barbarian better?
« Reply #17 on: December 08, 2012, 12:10:02 PM »
A bath. Seriously. Those guys stink.
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Offline Andion Isurand

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Re: What would make the barbarian better?
« Reply #18 on: December 08, 2012, 04:56:47 PM »
Allow them to pick the type of rage they want to perform each time they rage, from a list of alternate rages already available.

Standard Rage
Whirling Frenzy
Ferocity
"Seething Fury" ---> Perhaps add a type of rage that is purely defensive in nature... one that improves Constitution, AC & Will Saves for purposes of tanking.  Perhaps give them Defensive Bulwark/Vigilant Defender as per the knight abilities as part of that kind of rage.

Perhaps also, you could have a type of rage that grants Spell Resistance that can't be voluntarily lowered while the rage lasts, for barbarians that disdain the use of magic.

etc etc

In addition, if you look at the Fangshield barbarian substitution levels in champions of valor, it included an ability to heal yourself damage equal twice to your HD by using one of your rage/day as a standard action.  That might be a fun one to add as standard for all barbarians.
« Last Edit: December 08, 2012, 07:18:38 PM by Andion Isurand »

Offline TiaC

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Re: What would make the barbarian better?
« Reply #19 on: December 09, 2012, 09:56:22 PM »
To go with the feral warrior concept, I'd give them some traditional monster abilities. Stuff like Fast Healing, Improved Grab/constrict, a wolf's Trip, Scent, Blindsense/sight, pounce, maybe even Rake. All it would need then is some sort of improved mobility.