Does the artificer need fixing?

[Zelkon]

More houseruling attempts from me . I am trying to fix some of the "worst," most broken elements from the game. Here's my question: are artificers broken enough to require a fix? Yes, they're versatile, but they're also very much team players. What's your take? How would you change them?

[FlaminCows]

The Artificer is powerful, largely because it is focused on using magic items and the magic item system in 3.5 is very abusable. I've noticed that the whole party uses the system more when an artificer is in the party, not only because the artificer makes items for them but also because the artificer shows them how its done and they all start taking Use Magic Devise like there's no tomorrow, so it might not be quite as bad in the intra-party balance aspect as its tier might suggest. It does, however, make it hard for the DM to challenge the party once they know what they're doing. They're all wielding rocket launchers and playing tag.

I actually like the Artificer class, but I'd at least try for some sort of fix. Removing the +2 caster level bonus for item prerequisites would be a start, and tossing the Artisan Bonus to UMD (which isn't big, but still). You could easily cut Infusions as well: the Artificer doesn't need them, and they're really just another buff spell source when it comes down to it. They're powerful but unnecessary. It'd simplify the Artificer a bit, too.

All that wouldn't be enough to take the Arty out of Tier One (okay, maaaybe loss of infusions and ahead-of-level magic items would, but probably not), but it would be a cleaner-looking class at least. Like you said, the Artificer is a team player, and it is pretty fun. It is broken, but that's mostly because magic items are broken. The Artificer class does what it set out to do.

[littha]

The big issue with the artificer is the magic items system rather than the class itself.

The other big thing to note is that a tier 1 artificer takes a huge amount of work to play, endless spreadsheets and calculations on the players part that limits the possibility of one turning up at your table anyway.

[Jackinthegreen]

I suppose one could say the Artificer needs "fixing" to make it more approachable but considering the magic item system that might not really be possible.

[Cyclone Joker]

The reason the artificer is so absurd is pretty central to the class, and pretty ingrained in the system.

It'd be like trying to fix full-casters. Or a White Wolf game.

[veekie]

The artificer is basically pure broken yeah. It's sole strength IS it's broken factor, by breaking WBL, providing virtually unlimited breadth spell access through item crafting and UMD, and boosting/customizing the output of equipment past standard limits. Take away hilarious crafting abuse and it falls limp, most Infusions are so slow as to be useless in combat, and don't last long enough to keep them active by default.

It more or less needs a complete re-design, to create unique equipment without messing with the normal magic item creation system(because the guidelines are just that, guidelines, they don't reflect the reality of spells being incorporated because spells are completely inconsistent). And of course, like any mad-science crafter, the stuff needs their regular maintenance to keep working without exploding, and their personal operation to make all the crazy functions work. But that'd be basically another magic system.

[littha]

Ideally to fix the artificer you need to fix:
Spellcasting (So that wands can function without being broken one way or another)
Magic Items (To prevent abuse of stronger items)
The Item Crafting system (See above)
UMD (Magic item use could do with being a universal ability anyway)

If I were to rebalance 3.5 the artificer would be what I touched last. Hopefully by the time you fixed everything else that is broken in the game then the artificer would be solidly balanced without needing to be touched.

A note is that only certain kinds of artificer are broken. The Construct crafter ones tend to be like rather lacklustre necromancers or summoners and because they spend most of their craft xp on constructs don't really have time for the tier 1 shenanigans that artificers are usually capable of.

[veekie]

Basically you need a Mad Science homebrew system that doesn't either suck, or wind up too complicated to use, unless you want to rebuild half of 3.5 along the way.

[littha]

half of 3.5 along the way.

Actually by weight of pages it might be more like 75%...

[Zelkon]

Well, if it doesn't need fixing, how can I add some interesting checks and balances? Some interesting powers that allow mostly buffing and debuffing?

[Gribel]

Action Points allow quick infusions. Those are cool.

[Halinn]

How bad would the artificer be if one removed the feats etc. that allow for cost reductions for magic item creation?

[awaken_D_M_golem]

raw Psi Artificer played for the purposes of
the non Psi X syndrome goodies, can be
fixed by taking Commoner 1 every other level.
 

[Demelain]

How bad would the artificer be if one removed the feats etc. that allow for cost reductions for magic item creation?

Magical Artisan stacking is probably one of the bigger ones. But also the 30% and 90% 10% reduction that you get basically for free by restricting use by alignment/class/skill.

[veekie]

Not that big a change I think, cost reduction only affects HOW MANY goodies you have, but due to simple Crafting shenanigans you already have as much as you need. Maybe if they couldn't craft spell trigger/completion items. Maybe.

[Kethrian]

The simplest way of regulating an artificer's power, for the DM, is to simply limit their down-time so they cannot craft everything they would want.

[Cyclone Joker]

The simplest way of regulating an artificer's power, for the DM, is to simply limit their down-time so they cannot craft everything they would want.

Dedicated Wright.

[Nytemare3701]

The simplest way of regulating an artificer's power, for the DM, is to simply limit their down-time so they cannot craft everything they would want.

Quickening the pace of the campaign tends to work better, as downtime is solved with a homunculus as stated above. If the player wants to continue crafting in time, they have to add time-reduction methods as well, which also increases the chance of failure due to the wonky crafting mechanics.

[Unbeliever]

Meh.  To the extent that a DM really wants to hamstring an Artificer's time to craft -- a resource that let's say for the sake of argument is totally at the DM's discretion -- he might as well just say "don't play an Artificer."  You're taking away its key claim to existence.  A player will just want to try and find a way around it or not play an Artificer. 

I think an Artificer is cool, but a total headache.  It's designed to break WBL and to put pressure on some of the most exploitable sub-systems in the game.  You might be able to fix it, but any substantial one would make it unrecognizable.  By analogy:  there might be good reasons to "fix" a Wizard so that it didn't cast spells, but then it'd hardly be what we think of as a Wizard. 

I do hates me the bookkeeping an Artificer entails, though.  That alone makes me shy away from the class.

[awaken_D_M_golem]

 

3.0e the Lantan Artificer makes an interesting starting point.
Has a very limited list.  Has 2 wonky improved Magic Items.
"Ought" to be able to use (shadow) spells. 
Probably was intended as a Rogue lite-weight Flavor prc.

Could easily be turned into a Sorc or Sorc-minus with real flavor.