Alright, whoever heard of a shield being an attack buff?

[Amechra]

Alright, to explain the name of this thread:

The feat Inlindl School from DotU allows you to sacrifice your Shield bonus to AC for an untyped bonus on attack rolls equal to 1/2 that amount. Sadly, it only works for light weapons, so it can't be used to boost power attack.

I posted a build a while back, namely:

Crusader 6/Suel Arcanomach 3/Abjurant Champion 5/Paragnostic Apostle 1/Argent Savant 3/Crusader +2

With this feat, he can sacrifice the +13 bonus he gets from the Shield spell to get a +6 to hit. Not too good, but it isn't shabby, either.

On the non-caster front, a Fighter could qualify for this feat at 1st level (the prerequisites are Int 13, Combat Expertise, Shield Proficiency, Weapon Finesse), and use it with a Tower Shield, for a +2 to hit, that scales up to a +4 at higher levels. If, however, we went into Sanctified One of Wee Jas for 5 levels, and then grabbed 5 levels of Sanctified One of Wee Jas + 3 levels in Uncanny Trickster, we'd be getting a +16 bonus from a +5 Tower Shield.

That's a +8 to hit. If we were crazy, and went Something 5/SOoWJ 5/Legacy Champion 10, we'd get a Tower Shield with a +22 bonus, for +11 to hit.

Now, what other ways do you know of to increase shield bonuses? This is a pretty nice feat if you want to make a sword-and-board character, anyway.

[Gribel]

Tower shield means -2 to attack with proficiency. A heavy shield is better if you want the best (AC/2) - attack penalty relation.

[Prime32]

Sadly, it only works for light weapons, so it can't be used to boost power attack.

This bonus applies only on attacks made with light weapons (or other weapons to which Weapon Finesse applies).

Nope. You can still PA with a rapier, unarmed strike, etc. IIRC there's an enchantment which makes any weapon finessable, so you could two-hand a heavy shield.

This feat would also be applicable for Two-Weapon Defence/Shield of Blades swashbuckler.

[Demelain]

An Elven Courtblade is a finessable two-hander. Races of the Wild. Could make it worth it to use with a buckler, for power attacking.
EDIT: Or an animated shield, which I keep forgetting exist.

[Amechra]

It explicitly states light weapons.

[Demelain]

It explicitly states light weapons.

(click to show/hide)

INLINDL SCHOOL [STYLE]
You have learned House Inlindl's fighting techniques, which
focus on using light weapons and shields.
Prerequisite:Int 13, Combat Expertise, Shield Proficiency,
Weapon Finesse.
Benefit:At the start of your turn, you can choose to
sacrifice your shield bonus to AC in exchange for a bonus on
melee attack rolls equal to one-half that bonus. This bonus
applies only on attacks made with light weapons (or other
weapons to which Weapon Finesse applies). This effect lasts
until the start of your next turn.

(click to show/hide)

Sword, Elven Courtblade: These exotic swords seem
impossibly long and thin, tapering to a needlelike point.
One edge of the blade is sharpened along its entire length,
and the opposite edge is sharpened only for the fi nal quarter
near the tip. A courtblade has a basket-shaped hilt (usually
made to resemble leaves and vines), a long grip, and a heavy
pommel. The weapon is intended for thrusting attacks, but
the wielder can slash with it as well.
A character with the Exotic Weapon Profi ciency (elven court-blade) feat
finds the weapon well suited for quick feints and
thrusts. A character can use an elven courtblade in conjunction
with the Weapon Finesse feat, applying her Dexterity bonus
(if any) to melee attacks she makes with the weapon, though
it remains a two-handed weapon and not a light weapon.
Characters profi cient with the elven courtblade may treat it as
a greatsword for the purpose of any of the following feats: Greater
Weapon Focus, Greater Weapon Specialization, Improved
Critical, Weapon Focus, and Weapon Specialization.

[phaedrusxy]

Looks like Elven Courtblade + Buckler (or animated shield, Shield spell, etc) + this feat is a go.

Rapier would also work, and wouldn't cost you an EWP, but you can't wield it in 2-hands for the extra 0.5x Str bonus. It doesn't explicitly say the same for Power Attack, though, so that presumably might still work.

[Gribel]

I'd say spiked chain > elven courtblade, especially with Combat Expertise already required for Inlindl School. Reach and (improved) trip ftw!

[Prime32]

Are there any effects which offer a large shield bonus that doesn't last the full turn? If you combined them with this ability, would the attack bonus still last the whole turn?

[Amechra]

OK, I didn't notice that. This makes the feat extra sexy-awesome.

I wonder...

Deflect gives you a +1/2 CL Shield bonus to AC against the next attack made against you; with levels in Abjurant Champion, that goes up to 5+1/2 CL; that can get pretty crazy, especially if you use lots of CL boosting tricks.

It's a 1 round buff, so it could work if it was extended... However, the feat has to be decided on at the beginning of the turn, so...

I'm kinda thinking that an Abjurant Champion (+5 on AC from Abjuration spells), a dip in Paragnostic Apostle (+2 to any AC bonus you get from a spell), Sanctified One of Wee Jas (one of the features adds +class level to shield bonuses to AC, regardless of source, so +5 if you are willing to lose 3 CL)

So, assuming a Duskblade 9/Abjurant Champion 5/Paragnostic Apostle 1/Sanctified One of Wee Jas, along with some Practiced Spellcaster:

Your AC buff from Deflect is +20, for a +10 to hit with your Courtblade. Alas, it only lasts until the first time someone attacks you, but eh.

If you're undead, there is the Fell Energy metamagic feat from Dragon (also in the Dragon Compendium, making it 3.5 legal!) that would boost the Shield bonus by another +2, for a +22 to AC.

I do have to admit, if you have Shield Ward, you can totally use this in a battle with a martial adept, and make them mad.

Martial Adept: "I use <Insert Standard Action Strike Here>"
You: "A shame. I use Deflect as an immediate action. That's +22 to AC. Any questions?"

A humble Shield spell will give you +18 AC, for a +9 to hit on every attack this round.

Actually, if I can swing it...

Getting some levels of Argent Savant on there can get me a double-extended Shield that gives me a +20 to AC. Which actually makes me want to play this guy as a neat-o Gish...

[Bauglir]

What happens if you cast Deflect while you're already giving up your shield bonus for an attack bonus?

[phaedrusxy]

I'd say spiked chain > elven courtblade, especially with Combat Expertise already required for Inlindl School. Reach and (improved) trip ftw!

lol, I forgot that the spiked chain is finessable, as I always use it on big, beefy strong characters.  Yeah, that's perfect.

[Amechra]

I think you'd get the Deflect bonus to AC, and you'd get the attack buff (without taking into account the shield bonus from Deflect)...

Which is decent.

Oh, and there's always another School feat for the the Spiked Chain, for some real goodness (it gives you the ability to pretty much just trip as part of an attack. F. T. W.)

Also, you know how Fighting Defensively sucks?

If you have some way to get rid of the penalty on attack rolls, it becomes pretty good (Greater Two-Weapon Defense gives you a +6 Shield bonus to AC, that explicitly stacks with any buckler you might have, while Fighting Defensively).

Combo with this, and that line of feats becomes "get a cumulative +1 to hit when fighting defensively."

On second thoughts, this is a pretty awful use of this ability.

[zook1shoe]

You're not limited to one shield btw.

I've been thinking of doing something with this in a gladiator game I'm in. But just never got around to it.

[Endarire]

Can you stack shield bonuses in this case?

And +1 to Animated Shields.

[Kasz]

Can you stack shield bonuses in this case?

And +1 to Animated Shields.

You can never stack bonuses of the same type. You lose your shield bonus to AC, doesn't mean if you're using 2 shields you can choose to lose the bonus from one and use the other... Your AC would only benefit from one shield to start with.

Even if it is an untyped bonus to attack, you couldn't apply it twice from the same source.

[phaedrusxy]

Can you stack shield bonuses in this case?

And +1 to Animated Shields.

You can never stack bonuses of the same type. You lose your shield bonus to AC, doesn't mean if you're using 2 shields you can choose to lose the bonus from one and use the other... Your AC would only benefit from one shield to start with.

Even if it is an untyped bonus to attack, you couldn't apply it twice from the same source.

The bolded part isn't correct. Bonuses of the same kind don't stack, but they do overlap. So they're both still there, but you only can benefit from one of them at a time. However, if you lose the benefit of one (it is dispelled, suppressed, etc), the other one is still there, and so you then gain benefit from it.

So if you had two shields, and used one to get an attack bonus through this feat, you should absolutely still be able to get the shield bonus to AC from the other one.

I do agree that you couldn't sacrifice both shield bonuses to stack them together into one big attack bonus, though.

[zook1shoe]

good points, after rereading the feat just now i see that it becomes a shield bonus to your attack bonus. before i must have thought it was a misc. bonus to attack of the same amount   oh well

[littha]

I really needed an excuse to dual wield shields and now I have it.

[zook1shoe]

2+ shields + Shield Charge + Improved Trip + pounce?