"Reading Power Levels"

[kevin video]

Is how one of my player's put it tonight. Basically he wanted to know if certain people they were negotiating with could just be punched out instead of chatting with them. When I mentioned that they obviously had friends who'd take him out, he wanted to know if he could figure out how strong they were just by looking at them.

Is there such a way? I ruled that he needed to make a Sense Motive check on each of them, and since he had +0, it was easy to let him know that he couldn't take any of them. They were too hard to figure out. But I thought I'd ask if there was another way to do it, or if such a way even existed.

[betrayor]

Metafaculty does what you want,of course it is a 9 level psionic power......

[ImperatorK]

Complete Adventurer - Assess Opponent, a new use for Sense Motive. Lets you guess your opponents power in comparison to you based on your HD and his CR.

[kevin video]

Complete Adventurer - Assess Opponent, a new use for Sense Motive. Lets you guess your opponents power in comparison to you based on your HD and his CR.

Oh good, so I wasn't off at all. Much appreciated.

[Unbeliever]

Ditto ImperatorK.  I also might allow skilled combatants to make a similar roll -- maybe untrained?.  You can also use other skills to see if someone has a reputation.  I happen to like the reputation idea, in general, it's a bit of a throwback to the old "name level" conceit:  anyone of great stature often has a reputation of some sort, unless there is some other reason for them not to have one.  And, that should be at least a little bit public, as that's what a reputation means.

It also depends a bit on how you view the world.  I tend to think that D&D universes make the most sense on a "great men" interpretation, something similar to Tolkien and Greek myths.  Hurin, Aragorn, Diomedes, Hector, and Achilles are not just "some guys" and this is known to people in the world. 

Along those lines, I kind of think about it as a book.  GRRM has to convey to the reader that the Mountain that Rides is a total badass (although that moniker kinda does the job ...).  RPGs are funky b/c the players are both participants AND an audience.  The audience would feel cheated or confused (both bad for players in an RPG) if all the sudden the Dazzler, without any foreshadowing, takes down Superman. 

[Demelain]

I expound upon the beginning of Unbeliever's comment, I'd let them make the skill check untrained if the characters were similar combat types, with an appropriate modifier. For example, if the PC and his opponent were both frontline-melee types, I'd let the PC make it untrained and add his BAB to the roll. Ditto for Casters, using CL instead of BAB. Gets messy with hybrid builds/skill monkeys, but it's just the beginning of a thought.
If your PCs have trained sense motive, though, no need to make needless houserules to help them out - just stick to the CA use.

EDIT: In response to the below comment: I am the derp. The bonus suggestion stands, however.

[kevin video]

But you can use Sense Motive untrained.

[Unbeliever]

I wasn't sure that this specific use didn't require training or something.  Also, I wasn't sure what the DCs were -- saying it's untrained but requiring a high DC doesn't help at all.  It's apparently opposed by Bluff, so unless someone is deliberately hiding their skill (suppressing their power level, but only Earthlings can do that!), and trained to do so, it's actually pretty easy to do.  Even easier if you make a small commitment to a magic item that gives you a bonus to Sense Motive.

[ImperatorK]

Complete Adventurer - Assess Opponent, a new use for Sense Motive. Lets you guess your opponents power in comparison to you based on your HD and his CR.

Oh good, so I wasn't off at all. Much appreciated.

I don't take credit cards or checks but Respects are okay.

[NunoM]

I had a similar situation in a recent game session. The difference was: i was the PC!

I'm playing a Duskblade, trained both in martial and magical stuff. Average Knowledge skills, which allow for that "who is this guy?" check, along with the "Collector of Stories" skill trick. On the other hand, his WIS sucks!
These are completely different skills, i know, but wouldn't it be logical for an experienced fighter/caster to be able to assess threats using the intellect and experience, rather than gut feeling?

My point is: i always see WIS as a skill for immediate stuff like Spot checks, Will saves, assess NPC reactions to the words you've just spoke, etc. Things that take (a bit) longer usually require analysis and a thinking process: Search, Appraise, Decipher Script...

IMHO, i could probably go with a houserule for this, that allowed for a Sense Motive check, yes (after all, you're "reading" a creature), but using INT as modifier and adding, say, 1/2 the CL to account for the experience...?

[Endarire]

Oriental Adventures also has the 'assess opponent' feature as a free action, which makes it much more useful.  Perhaps limit it to 1/round/target or just make it a swift action.

[Nickname Jr.]

http://dndtools.eu/spells/magic-of-faerun--20/know-greatest-enemy--1637/

or, for what you've been talking about, this feat allows it as a free action:

http://dndtools.eu/feats/complete-adventurer--54/combat-intuition--398/


Not being bound by all of these silly rules, my own godlings use an always active Sense Power ability that works like a green / yellow / red stoplight depending on whether the foe's CR is below, even with, or way above yours.   That's what you get in a flash, but often there's more detailed info available on an enemy species if you take the time to mine it from the spell.