Author Topic: Let's Improve Dragon Magic's Dragonscale Husk  (Read 8663 times)

Offline kevin video

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Let's Improve Dragon Magic's Dragonscale Husk
« on: December 12, 2012, 01:17:26 AM »
Let's be honest. This sucks. Completely. You give up your armor proficiencies, and you need to be able to wear heavy armor in the first place to get this ability. Plus, if you ever cross-class into something that doesn't get heavy armor, you can no longer progress the armor bonus. That, sucks.

So this is my take on it. For the most part, everything stays. You still need to be of the dragonblood (subtype, actual half-dragon, dragonborn, etc). You still lose all armor proficiencies for taking this. You still grow scales in the same color as that of your parent dragon. However, it does not take no eight hours to grow. It will instead take a little longer than it would to don heavy armor without help, so about 10 minutes. As for shedding, it'd again take 10 minutes. It is a lot of scales, and it's what it was originally.

Scaled hide will still be AC 6 + 1/3 class levels with heavy armor proficiency (+7 at 3rd, +8 at 6th until +12 at 18th. Still get energy resistance 5 every five levels from 5th to 20th for resist 20. It will still count as a set of medium armor that's -4 check penalty, but have it as a +3 Dex modifier for maximum. Make it the equivalent of a set of breastplate and scalemail for Dex bonuses. There's still no arcane spell failure.

However, it's here where the real changes are. While at 1st level it'll count as medium armor to make your speed 20 ft., this will change at 4th level. It is at this point that the character will automatically gain the Pathfinder's armor training ability that the Fighter gets. This allows you to move at your base movement instead of the reduced one, will increase the Dex by +1, and reduce the armor check penalty by 1. This will continue at levels 7, 11, and 15, making the husk 30 ft, +7 Dex, and +0 ACP. This is of course assuming that all 15 levels are from a class that's got heavy armor proficiency.

The problem with a dragonscale husk is that it's not clothing or actual armor. So this makes it impossible to have magical vestment placed on it. I suppose a feat could be homebrewed to make the scales only take 5 minutes to grow and shed, and even allow them to be imbued with magic. Maybe even one to harden the scales giving it adamantine properties for DR 3/- or lightening it like mithral to give +3 Dex. Kind of like the feats warforged have.

If this is used for a Pathfinder game, and the actual Pathfinder Fighter is used, the PC can instead use a substitution ability for the fighter instead.
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Offline kevin video

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Re: Let's Improve Dragon Magic's Dragonscale Husk
« Reply #1 on: December 17, 2012, 12:48:10 AM »
No comments? :???
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Offline Amechra

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Re: Let's Improve Dragon Magic's Dragonscale Husk
« Reply #2 on: December 17, 2012, 12:57:38 AM »
I mean, it looks like it'll work...
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Offline kevin video

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Re: Let's Improve Dragon Magic's Dragonscale Husk
« Reply #3 on: December 17, 2012, 12:59:06 AM »
I mean, it looks like it'll work...
It'll definitely work better than the original does. I'm sure it could use a little tweaking, but you're only giving up three armor proficiencies for it so it shouldn't be godly for powers.
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Offline linklord231

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Re: Let's Improve Dragon Magic's Dragonscale Husk
« Reply #4 on: December 17, 2012, 12:59:21 AM »
The biggest problem with Dragonscale Husk is that it can't be enchanted.  Any changes to the ability should make fixing that a very high priority.

That being said, I like your other ideas.  I might make the energy resistance scale faster (maybe 5 every 4 levels, capping with immunity?), but that's not really important. 
I'm not arguing, I'm explaining why I'm right.

Offline kevin video

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Re: Let's Improve Dragon Magic's Dragonscale Husk
« Reply #5 on: December 17, 2012, 01:01:39 AM »
The biggest problem with Dragonscale Husk is that it can't be enchanted.  Any changes to the ability should make fixing that a very high priority.

That being said, I like your other ideas.  I might make the energy resistance scale faster (maybe 5 every 4 levels, capping with immunity?), but that's not really important.
The main problem with the scales not being able to get enchanted is that they're part of you. Dragon's can't use magical vestment on their scales. Just as human can't enchant their own skin. However, whatever spells they can use to enhance themselves would work on a dragonscale husk too.
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Offline Jackinthegreen

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Re: Let's Improve Dragon Magic's Dragonscale Husk
« Reply #6 on: December 17, 2012, 01:21:03 AM »
Well, Warforged can have their armor enchanted, but that's something of a different story.  Their armor doesn't scale but there are feats that can change or even remove it.

Offline kevin video

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Re: Let's Improve Dragon Magic's Dragonscale Husk
« Reply #7 on: December 17, 2012, 01:28:30 AM »
Well, Warforged can have their armor enchanted, but that's something of a different story.  Their armor doesn't scale but there are feats that can change or even remove it.
Yeah, but again that's a different story. Warforged can only change their armor at 1st level because that material is what they're built with, and they have it for the entire game. Or at least they hope they do. Dragons aren't built. Not unless they're clockwork.
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Offline Garryl

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Re: Let's Improve Dragon Magic's Dragonscale Husk
« Reply #8 on: December 17, 2012, 01:54:13 AM »
The biggest problem with Dragonscale Husk is that it can't be enchanted.  Any changes to the ability should make fixing that a very high priority.

That being said, I like your other ideas.  I might make the energy resistance scale faster (maybe 5 every 4 levels, capping with immunity?), but that's not really important.
The main problem with the scales not being able to get enchanted is that they're part of you. Dragon's can't use magical vestment on their scales. Just as human can't enchant their own skin. However, whatever spells they can use to enhance themselves would work on a dragonscale husk too.

Dragon's scales are natural armor, which means they stack with actual armor (and armor enchantments). Dragonscale Husk is in place of armor, and thus cannot be used with actual armor (which is kinda the point of it).

Dragons don't use Magic Vestment. They use Mage Armor (or the greater version). Greater effect, lower level, available with Sor/Wiz casting, and stacks with their natural armor.

Offline linklord231

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Re: Let's Improve Dragon Magic's Dragonscale Husk
« Reply #9 on: December 17, 2012, 02:16:32 AM »
So give them a Kensai or Mindblade style system where they get to choose what armor enchantments to apply.  Let them sacrifice a pile of gold in a ritual to enchant their Husk, and charge 1/2 the market price to swap the enchantments out (same as if you sold your armor and bought a set with different enchantments). 
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Offline kevin video

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Re: Let's Improve Dragon Magic's Dragonscale Husk
« Reply #10 on: December 17, 2012, 08:59:47 AM »
So give them a Kensai or Mindblade style system where they get to choose what armor enchantments to apply.  Let them sacrifice a pile of gold in a ritual to enchant their Husk, and charge 1/2 the market price to swap the enchantments out (same as if you sold your armor and bought a set with different enchantments).
I could see that as a homebrew class, or a couple of feats, but by itself added with what's already there, that'd be too powerful.
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Offline Bauglir

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Re: Let's Improve Dragon Magic's Dragonscale Husk
« Reply #11 on: December 17, 2012, 11:49:37 AM »
So give them a Kensai or Mindblade style system where they get to choose what armor enchantments to apply.  Let them sacrifice a pile of gold in a ritual to enchant their Husk, and charge 1/2 the market price to swap the enchantments out (same as if you sold your armor and bought a set with different enchantments).
I could see that as a homebrew class, or a couple of feats, but by itself added with what's already there, that'd be too powerful.
Even if the gold cost and ritual time were equal to the market price and crafting time, respectively?

Offline kevin video

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Re: Let's Improve Dragon Magic's Dragonscale Husk
« Reply #12 on: December 17, 2012, 12:24:14 PM »
Even if the gold cost and ritual time were equal to the market price and crafting time, respectively?
Yes, because it's still your skin. Why can't a tattoo monk do this? Why can't normal dragons do this? Why can't humans, elves, half-dragons, dragonborn, or dragonscales do it? Why are those with a dragonscale husk so special that they can do that particular ritual on scales?
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Offline linklord231

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Re: Let's Improve Dragon Magic's Dragonscale Husk
« Reply #13 on: December 17, 2012, 03:09:34 PM »
Even if the gold cost and ritual time were equal to the market price and crafting time, respectively?
Yes, because it's still your skin. Why can't a tattoo monk do this? Why can't normal dragons do this? Why can't humans, elves, half-dragons, dragonborn, or dragonscales do it? Why are those with a dragonscale husk so special that they can do that particular ritual on scales?

Crunch wise, other people can't do it because they can get access to armor enchantments in other ways.  This ACF is supposed to be about equivalent in power to just wearing heavy armor.  The advantage is that you get free energy resistance, the disadvantage is that you look like a monster when you're wearing it and, more importantly, you can't benefit from any other AC bonus*.

Fluff wise, you can't ritually enchant your skin because dragonscales are "special."  Dragons are so magic that even their skin can be magic.  Dragonscale Husks just hold magic better than normal, even for other Dragons.  And that's what taking this ACF means - you're one of the few people whose skin is magical enough to hold an enchantment.

*Actually, I think this part needs to change.  The wording is very vague, and could mean "This is the only thing you get to add to your AC.  Deal with it."  It should be changed to allow for some things, but probably not the most common ones.  I vote that the Husk counts as an Armor bonus and a Natural Armor bonus simultaneously, so it can't stack with either, but can stack with Deflection and Luck and whatnot.
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Offline kevin video

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Re: Let's Improve Dragon Magic's Dragonscale Husk
« Reply #14 on: December 18, 2012, 12:28:04 AM »
I took it as it meaning that when it adds to your AC, it's just an armor bonus. It does state that it counts as medium armor, therefore not natural armor.
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Offline linklord231

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Re: Let's Improve Dragon Magic's Dragonscale Husk
« Reply #15 on: December 18, 2012, 12:33:48 AM »
The exact wording is "This bonus doesn't stack with any feat, racial trait, or other special ability that would grant you a bonus to Armor Class," bolding mine.
I'm fairly certain it's intended to only prevent things like the Monk/Ninja armor bonus, the dodge feat, or racial natural armor, but it's not obvious. 
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Offline kevin video

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Re: Let's Improve Dragon Magic's Dragonscale Husk
« Reply #16 on: December 18, 2012, 12:49:15 AM »
The exact wording is "This bonus doesn't stack with any feat, racial trait, or other special ability that would grant you a bonus to Armor Class," bolding mine.
I'm fairly certain it's intended to only prevent things like the Monk/Ninja armor bonus, the dodge feat, or racial natural armor, but it's not obvious.
Yeah, that needs to go. There's no reason why you can't take feats like Improved Natural Armor or Dodge.
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Offline Bauglir

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Re: Let's Improve Dragon Magic's Dragonscale Husk
« Reply #17 on: December 20, 2012, 11:57:56 AM »
Even if the gold cost and ritual time were equal to the market price and crafting time, respectively?
Yes, because it's still your skin. Why can't a tattoo monk do this? Why can't normal dragons do this? Why can't humans, elves, half-dragons, dragonborn, or dragonscales do it? Why are those with a dragonscale husk so special that they can do that particular ritual on scales?
Because they don't have the power to magically grow additional layers of skin, harder than steel.