Removing unwanted enchantments from weapons.

[Karlton]

For story reasons, a paladin of mine HAS to use a specific +2 longsword, that unfortunately has the utterly useless Shocking Burst enchantment on it. I would love to have it upgraded to a +3 eager magebane sword, but stacking these extra enchantments on top op shocking burst gets too expensive.

Is there a way to either re-wire shocking burst into something useful for a reduced price, or just to get rid of it at all?

I cannot simply disjoin the weapon and have it reenchanted, as it holds a unique special enchantment that is a personal gift from my god.

Also, I already talked to my DM about it, and he told me tgat he would only let me remove shocking burst if I could do it by RAW.

[Unbeliever]

Hmmm, I don't know if there's an explicit rules for disenchanting items.  It's never come up before, actually, and we tend to handwave these things.  There's nothing I could find in the MIC.

Pro-tip to your DM, though:  don't use the plot to punish the player.  Right now he's taking away what is among the most important choices you get to make for your character -- what kind of pokey thing you use.  That's extremely bad form. 

And, what does he care?  if it's essential, for flair reasons, that you use some lightning with your weapon, then get one of the Augment crystals.  The RAW on magic items is meant to be interpreted loosely, as stated in both the DMG and the MIC.

[Ithamar]

It would be a houserule, but see if you can find an artificer to "drain" the enhancement from the weapon.  The artificer gets to fill up his XP craft reserve, so might even pay you for the service. (Though I doubt the DM would allow that.)

[Daedrin]

In one campaign that I played we traveled everywhere and did not have much access to magical reagents for crafting, I came up with a wondrous item that allowed me to drain the magical effects from items to use in future crafting. The item was great, it left the items intact but drained of their magical power (half the value of the item essentially craft cost for pathfinder) to use it. I called it my Mystic Dissembler and the user had to beat the caster level of the item put in the Dissembler to drain it of its enchantments but the thing that made it good was that you automatically succeed on the dispel check with spells cast by yourself. Maybe the DM can have something like that happen where you can keep the blade intact and then drained of its enchantment (for the cost of a quest/coin help you) oh if you want to show the DM this item from Paizo's RPG Super Star Arcane Anvil I think that may be an easy fix, just a tweak to have the item left intact but drained of its enchantments.

[NunoM]

Another story: i once played a character (back in AD&D) which the DM thought was over-equipped (i.e. i had an AC of -1 for a 2nd level character). He invented a strange black crystal i found in a treasure trove, of which i couldn't get rid of after i touched it for the first time, that drained the magic of every other item i possessed at a rate of 1 random effect/day. Of course, i didn't know that at the time.
As it drained, a faint green glow would appear inside the crystal. After a few days, the crystal was as bright as a green torch, i thought: "Well... nice! This could be a magic torch of some kind, it may be useful...". On the next day, a bright flash of light from the crystal blinded me for a while and when i finally came to, i was covered in a green goo which bestowed a -2 CHA penalty until i bathed! The crystal itself was black again, and i finally realized what the heck was going on, when i received a blow that wouldn't normally pierce my armor... Anyway, i knew the cycle was about to start again, and i was denied the possibility of ever owning a magic item of *any* sort until i found a way to get rid that freaking crystal!
That thing drained my armor, weapon and ring, until i could finally afford a "Remove curse" to steer clear of the crystal.

Being a magic weapon handed by a god, i think a trip to an appropriate temple would make wonders. You could either negotiate an exchange of relics with the local priest for something of similar value, or perform some kind of ritual to request your god for a change to the special ability.
...and, if you're looking for a good magical synergy ability to add to your weapon, based on "Shock"... i really, REALLY, must emphasize the "Air Elemental Power" from DMG II. An air elemental companion to fight alongside you is nothing to frown about.

[Jackinthegreen]

So many RAWtarded GMs...  Sadly, it looks like you're screwed on this one because there aren't rules for disenchanting parts of an item.  Artificers can disenchant the whole thing but not parts of it.  Not even the Magic Item Compendium has rules on partially disenchanting items.  Why? Because the designers didn't really envision a situation where the character couldn't sell or otherwise get rid of an item to use another.  Let your GM know about that and ask if you can pray to your deity for a more suitable weapon that would allow your character to better champion their cause.

[Captnq]

This sort of thing comes up more then you'd imagine in my campaign.

Solutions to the problem:

Wish: Instantly rearrange your weapon in any config you wish. I also allow for an additional +1 bonus for the trouble as an inherent bonus to the weapon.

Limited wish: For a limited wish, you can "Switch out" enchantments. However, when doing so, it is only between two weapons at a time. They must be the same weapon. The new combined value of the weapons cannot be greater then the original value of the two. This is the prefered method of my players.

Access to a Loci: Since I run forgotten realms, I have created a location in the weave where the threads "knot". Such locations are typically called "Nodes" but I have expanded on the concept. Loci allow for the breaking down of magic items and re-arranging them in the hands of arcanist. The next value remains the same or lower. Excess gold or xps are lost into the weave for the process.

Miracle: This is the one for people who are religious. A miracle can be cast without an XP cost. So it costs the cleric nothing except time. If you have done great deeds for your god, you can approach and request that magic items be re-arranged. It follows the same concept as the Loci, except you just need a 17th level cleric who says, "Yo! Hairy Thunder Dude! He wants a Magebane, not this piece of crap!" And Poof! You have a new sword. Clerics only do this for free if you have done great serve to the god and blah blah blah.

Cash Out The XPs: The god of magic in my campaign accepts non-artifacts as sacrifice. The result is a vial of distilled Joy, as per the spell. You get half the xps put into the magic item. The remaining xp and the "gold" that went into the magic item goes to feed the god of magic. It's like selling the magic item for half price, except you get the xps instead of the gold. Take your XPs to a wizard and have him make the weapon the way you want it. The players used this one until they got high enough level to afford limited wishes on a regular basis.

[nijineko]

expensive, but a disjunction would undo it.

+1 to the artificer notion. normally they completely disjoin the item and absorb the xp as crafting points, but perhaps a skill or level check to limit the effect.

i think that this would be in the purview of a wish, as previously mentioned.

[Kasz]

My old DM loved the idea of magical items containing a magical weave, like a blanket made from magic attached to the surface of the item. Spellcraft checks allowed a wizard to navigate these weaves and discern properties and spells contain within the item (Identify). The idea that a pattern in the weave could be the difference between a protection (resistance) from energy (electric) for the wielder and a shocking grasp spell cast on hit.

This being said, someone more powerful than the original crafter could beat a spellcraft check and a craft check etc. could "reweave" the item, doing so involved discussing the adjustments with the DM and often spending gold on material components.
"You buy some incense to help you focus on the task, some silver filament to lay the new spell into and work into the hilt, some assorted gems for their energies and the material components for the spell, you then spend the next few days locked away in your workshop weaving and unweaving magical threads taking care not to leave anything out of place or unstable so it'll unweave. You only take breaks to sleep and eat and eventually you manage to turn the +2 Bardiche into a +1 Valorous Bardiche and you believe you've left no loose threads."

Needless to say we played fast and loose with the crafting rules and didn't pay XP for crafting... or take 12 months to make a high level item... but we didn't exploit them either... we just used ones that made sense with the story.

Moar ontopic... Captnq has the best solutions if your DM wants it to be by RAW. Limited Wish seems right on the money to me... as that spell says by RAW "Produce any other effect whose power level is in line with the above effects" but comes down to DM fiat again... if he blocks that then it's Wish or Miracle.

by RAW it'd cost 2,480 gold for a limited wish by a lvl 14 wizard. CL 14 x 70gp = 980. and for the xp cost 300xp = 1,500 gold. 980 + 1,500 = 2,480

That's before haggling and diplomacy discounts though. Cheaper than a limited wish scroll at 3,775 gp from http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/scrolls.htm

[phaedrusxy]

I think Polymorph Any Object actually let you rearrange the properties of magic items in 3.0. Of course, in 3.5 it doesn't work on magic items at all... but if you could convince him to let you use the old version of the spell...

[Captnq]

Ooo!

Under MIC chapter 6, Shocking Burst is now a SYNERGY! That means your +2 sword is actually Shocking (+1) Shocking Burst (+1).

Inform your DM that the sword is not in compliance with the latest 3.5 rules and thus the gods of magic should give you a free do-over.

[Karlton]

The final verdict is in; The sword cannot have the Shocking Burst enchantment removed. My character is going to order a brand sparkling new +3 Eager Magebane Adamantine Longsword for 53k gc, whish is 13k less than it would have cost to add a further +1, Eager and Magebane to the old sword, which is now going to serve as a mantelpiece in my stronghold.

The DM was a bit unhappy about it, because who refuses to fight with a sword that is a personal gift from the god of fighting evil things, especially when you are in the business of fighting evil things? I suspect that he actually think that the sword is the coolest thing ever, and even that he may not understand why I don't like Burst enchantments like he does.

Anyway, thank you for your time.

[Unbeliever]

Any chance of just talking to your DM?  It seems that he's just fundamentally understood either the mechanical usefulness of the weapon, or, much more importantly, how a weapon and its enhancements say something about a martial character. 

It's a mistake common in D&D (I blame Gygax), and it's simply a mismatch between the fluff on the sword and the mechanics or how it meshes with your character. 

The fluff on the sword says:  "I slay evil things!"

But, the crunch on the sword says:  "I only slightly hurt some evil things a bit more.  And, I am kind of boring and way overpriced, which means I am totally constraining your future options in customizing your character, and a Paladin's pokey thing is one of the key ways to do so.  Oh, and I do NOTHING EXTRA to Demons.  They're not evil, right?"

 (I actually only slightly hurt some evil things a bit more and am kind of boring and over-priced and contrait

[Captnq]

The DM was a bit unhappy about it, because who refuses to fight with a sword that is a personal gift from the god of fighting evil things, especially when you are in the business of fighting evil things? I suspect that he actually think that the sword is the coolest thing ever, and even that he may not understand why I don't like Burst enchantments like he does.

I happen to be writing the definitive work on Weapon Abilities right now and I increasingly hate Burst.

Here. Show this to your DM

I am a paladin with a Str of 14. I have a +1 Longsword with Shocking burst.
Lets say, to make the math simple, On average I hit 50% of the time.

Damage
7.5 (1d8+3 base) * .4 (hit on 11-18) = 3.75 avg damage
3.5 (1d6 Shocking) * .5 (hit on a 11-20) = 1.75 avg damage
5.5 (1d10 on a critical) * .1 (crit on a 19-20) * .5 (confirm on a 11-20) = 0.275 avg damage
7.5 (1d8+3 base) * .1 (Crit on 19-20) * .5 (confirm on a 11-20) *2 (Crit Mult)= 0.75 avg damage

Total: 6.525 avg damage

Now... Let's drop the Burst and just take a good old fashioned +1 so our new weapon is a +2 shocking longsword being wielded by the same guy.

8.5 (1d8+4 base) * .45 (hit on 10-18) = 3.825 avg damage
3.5 (1d6 Shocking) * .55 (hit on a 10-20) = 1.925 avg damage
8.5 (1d8+4 base) * .1 (Crit on 19-20) * .55 (confirm on a 10-20) *2 (Crit Mult)= 0.935 avg damage

Total: 6.685 avg damage

Now, Let's try it even further... +3 Longsword

9.5 (1d8+5 base) * .5 (hit on 9-18) = 4.75 avg damage
9.5 (1d8+5 base) * .1 (Crit on 19-20) * .6 (confirm on a 9-20) *2 (Crit Mult)= 1.14 avg damage

Total: 5.415 avg damage


Now, let us assume our enemy doesn't spend 18,000 gp for shock resistance which TOTALLY negates the energy damage. And lets assume he doesn't have a friend who can buff him with energy resistance, because if you are wielding a weapon of your God, there is NO CHANCE that nobody else will have heard about that sword and how it does shocking burst. Nope. NOT A CHANCE. But lets ignore that...

The burst weapon sucks. It sucks my left nut.
The shocking weapon appears to be a good investment. Or does it? Le's up that Paladin's Str by 4 and give him an 18, shall we?

+3 longsword w/18 str
11.5 (1d8+6 base) * .6 (hit on 7-18) = 6.9 avg damage
11.5 (1d8+6 base) * .1 (Crit on 19-20) * .7 (confirm on a 9-20) *2 (Crit Mult)= 1.61 avg damage

Total: 8.51 avg

+2 Shocking longsword w/18 str
10.5 (1d8+5 base) * .55 (hit on 8-18) = 5.775 avg damage
3.5 (1d6 Shocking) * .65 (hit on a 8-20) = 2.275 avg damage
10.5 (1d8+5 base) * .1 (Crit on 19-20) * .65 (confirm on a 10-20) *2 (Crit Mult)= 1.365 avg damage

Total: 9.415

Original Difference: 1.27
W/18 str difference: .905

As your base damage goes up, the return of the humble +1 enhancement catches up with the +1d6 electrical damage, that does not scale with increased base damage. (But does get you some return with increased to hit.)

I'll save you the math, but basically, at around a Str of 28, a +1 to your sword is better then +1d6 elemental damage. This doesn't factor in a whole bunch of crap, like power attack, buffs by the rest of the party, yada yada yada.

And remember:

A critical hit means that you roll your damage more than once, with all your usual bonuses, and add the rolls together. Unless otherwise specified, the threat range for a critical hit on an attack roll is 20, and the multiplier is ×2.

Exception: Extra damage dice over and above a weapon’s normal damage is not multiplied when you score a critical hit.

My Point is, the energy damage is worth it for weak characters. Strong melee types are better with damage that adds to your base weapon, then the damage is multiplied by your critical.

Burst Just sucks. It Just Sucks. It always sucks. It will always suck.

[SorO_Lost]

Collision is worthwhile. Extra 5 damage isn't done by a die and thus can be multiplied.

This is basically trading away +2 to attack for a +3 to damage really when you compare a +1 Collision to a simple +3. The great element to this is course is that it stacks in. Means it doesn't matter if the creature has Resistance to Fire 5 or w/e, all damage is of the same type (say Slashing) rather than across the entire board allowing multiple Resists/Damage Reduction to apply. Then of course, as noted you add it into your Critical Damage, x2 means +10 damage and so on. And also the infamous Charging multipliers love it, so yes a Valorous Collision deals and extra +10 damage while charging.

It is superior to any Elemental Burst.

Edit

(click to show/hide)

*Requires a level in Exotic Weapon Master*
Small +2 Gloryborn Berserker Valorous Wrathful Healing Collision Katori Resin Halberd of Vaulting
Cost 174,910 gold excluding katori's costs.
Small: -2 to attack, becomes One-Handed for Uncanny Blow's x2 Str & THF upgrade.
Gloryborn(DMGII, +600): Template, gives +1 damage while charging.
Berserker(UE/FR:RoF, +1): While Raging the numeric enhancement bonus improves by +2 (making it a +4 weapon).
Valorous(UE, +1): Double damage while charging.
Wrathful Healing(E&A, +3): Heal half the damage you deal.
Collision(Psi, +2): +5 damage.
Katori Resin(FF, ?): Makes the Halberd an Exotic weapon, improves the critical multiplier to x4.
Halberd of Vaulting(A&E, 20,310): +30 to Jump checks, double damage on a charge.

Aka, +2 to Attack, 1d8+8+(StrMod*2) Damage with +1 and then tripled while charging. OH, and you heal half of what you deal.

Need to make it unbreakable?
Matter Manipulation (+5/+15) + Hardening (+10/+0 @CL20) + Augment Object (x2/x2) can help.

[ksbsnowowl]

Burst Just sucks. It Just Sucks. It always sucks. It will always suck.

I have a new player who is a complete and total newb.  Hasn't played since OD&D as a preteen.  I've been giving every hint possible without outright banning the burst enhancements to steer him away from them.

As it is, he's still going with a +1 Keen Frost Rapier (with a Lesser Crystal of Energy Assault [Fire]) and a +1 Shocking Short Sword (with a Lesser Crystal of Energy Assault [Cold]).

[Unbeliever]

If he went at least all frost with it, I can respect the thematic appeal.  Likewise, I can sort of understand it as part of a "I love to crit" either build or just personal preference. 

[SorO_Lost]

Sounds like he just wants to be elemental.

I'd suggest Bracers of Lightning (MiC 206) which adds Shock to any weapon you use for I think 20k, cheaper in the long run.

And if you can talk him into Unarmed Damage all kinds of augments can be found.
Lightning Tunic is 3/day +2d6 Electricity for 3 rounds (also MiC).
Flaming Fists (A&E) is an alchemical potion that adds +1d6 fire, maybe allow it to be used with an alchemical tooth?
Also, besides elemental, if s/he just like the dice the Stone Spikes Graft (FF) adds +1d4 piercing and Ring of the Viper (FR:SK) adds poison (think 1d6 con).

Class Boosters has a better list, I think it'd be cool to combine them all to throw a fist full of dice, but its little complicated and by the time you can afford it all most of it doesn't work

[awaken_D_M_golem]

3rd-ing the Limited Wish.
Or possibly an Arty + obvious houserule.
Maybe "improving" the weapon to a +3 no extras.

It's not like the maths are hard.
4e has exactly this.
If 4e can do it ... umm ... big brother 3e ought to be able 

[Karlton]

You know what? Im going to try the Limited Wish. Its not like the sword is an artifact or anything, so even if it breaks I will only have destroyed an item of personal value to my paladin. I did try to reshape an artifact crystal short sword into a longsword with Stone Shape (prestige pally) about 6 levels ago, and ended up breaking the thing and having to atone for 'deliberately' destroying a relic of my faith 

Now if only I could get the party wizard to cast such a spell on my behalf...