Author Topic: Across the Table (OOC Discussion)  (Read 192275 times)

Offline bhu

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Re: Across the Table (OOC Discussion)
« Reply #840 on: June 17, 2014, 05:08:53 PM »
Are there any warlock hybrids worth it?

Offline VennDygrem

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Re: Across the Table (OOC Discussion)
« Reply #841 on: June 17, 2014, 05:59:40 PM »
Hybrid usually isn't particularly worthwhile for Warlock if you want Warlock as your main component due to all of its class features. Hybrid talent will only get you one back, and Warlocks tend to suffer when they don't have all their features working in tandem with each other. If you really want a ranged blaster that can do other things, then maybe you could combine Warlock with another Charisma or Constitution based class, but you'd probably be better off using Sorcerer to hybrid with.

Warlocks would be better off multiclassing by way of feat, but there are already so many good feats to take. For a Star Pact warlock, Improved Fate of the void is pretty great (especially if you can curse a bunch of enemies and manage to drop them all together, like if the sorcerer manages to blast them all with an area spell). Ulban's flare will boost your pact at-will quite well. Sacrifice to Caiphon is dawned amazing as it let's you regain your encounter powers if you miss all targets, which is great even if you take a little but of damage for it. Finally, Implement expertise is useful to prevent missing in the first place. With scaling defenses, each +1 to hit really can make a difference.

As a Star Pact Warlock, you'll want to decide whether you want to focus on Con as your main stat or Charisma. Don't make the mistake of pumping both at the expense of Intelligence. WotC went back and errata a bunch of star pact powers to allow them to use either of the two stats, so you really can choose. Charisma could be nice for skills, while Con will make you a lot more durable which can be great for a striker. Genasi makes a good Con-lock race from an optimization standpoint with +2 Con and Int and plenty of nifty options, while Half elf will add some versatility. It's just not as ideal stat wise unless you really want to generalize rather than specialize. If you'd rather go for Charisma,  Tieflings have some amazing support and are pretty cool overall. El Adrian are also nice with a bonus class skill and some good feat support, plus an encounter teleport power. Gnomes are pretty much the same, stat wise, though the imagery of a small gnome staring up at the stars and waiting for them to stare back is pretty amusing.

Offline bhu

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Re: Across the Table (OOC Discussion)
« Reply #842 on: June 17, 2014, 06:03:58 PM »
I was prolly gonna go human con-lock.  Was thinking of lock/barbarian hybrid but after your post I'll pass.

Offline VennDygrem

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Re: Across the Table (OOC Discussion)
« Reply #843 on: June 17, 2014, 06:38:57 PM »
Yeah, I really don't see much synergy between Warlock and Barbarian. Str/Cha Barbarian/Sorcerer, on the other, at least matches up stats and gets something without giving up too much.

Offline Melblen_Cairn

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Re: Across the Table (OOC Discussion)
« Reply #844 on: June 17, 2014, 07:08:22 PM »
My Eladrin teleporting warlock was really cool. Popping around the battlefield cursing the closest enemy each time and since I moved more than 2 squares I'd gain the concealment bonus. Concept worked very well.
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Offline VennDygrem

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Re: Across the Table (OOC Discussion)
« Reply #845 on: June 17, 2014, 07:22:40 PM »
I'm a big fan of the teleporting warlock concept. If things had turned out differently, there's a strong chance I would have played an Eladrin Fey-pact warlock doing just that. :)

Offline Inspectre

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Re: Across the Table (OOC Discussion)
« Reply #846 on: June 17, 2014, 09:35:31 PM »
Okay.  Here's Galadren as a pure Ranger (MC Rogue) - the intent is to do a lot of damage up-close, running into melee for flanking and hoping my effective AC of 20 versus OAs due to Archery Ranger's Mobility bonus feat thing.  Basically a sub-machine gun versus a sniper rifle.  He does a lot of damage, and it'll only go up as he gets more feat support online to boost the Twin Strike damage and the like.  Big tricks are shooting one enemy for a lot of damage, and shooting multiple enemies for a lot of damage.

And here is Galadren as a Ranger/Seeker Hybrid (MC Rogue). He feels weaker than the pure Ranger build to me, but that's probably due to the lower AC/damage and lack of focus.  Unlike the previous build, this version of Galadren is meant to be more of a speedster, running around the battlefield with various "Shift before/after attack" powers to stay out of reach while slowly wearing enemies down, swapping between seeker and ranger shots where appropriate.  His big tricks are to create a zone that causes enemies to grant Combat Advantage while inside it (as his Daily), and make enemies take a -2 penalty to their attacks if he hits them with a Seeker arrow.  With occasionally managing a big damage spike by combining a Ranger shot with rogue's Sneak Attack.

Up to you guys which one will end up fitting in better with the party.  Seems like we've got strikers and controllers well handled at least.

Offline bhu

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Re: Across the Table (OOC Discussion)
« Reply #847 on: June 17, 2014, 10:23:38 PM »
Yeah, I really don't see much synergy between Warlock and Barbarian. Str/Cha Barbarian/Sorcerer, on the other, at least matches up stats and gets something without giving up too much.

I couldnt find a hexblade, and they both key off con to some extent so I was hoping it's make a nice mix of curses and stabbity guy.  Alas it is not to be...

Offline Melblen_Cairn

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Re: Across the Table (OOC Discussion)
« Reply #848 on: June 17, 2014, 11:34:06 PM »
Galadren looks fine either way. In the backstory you can swap out references to Brindol with Loudwater and Red Hand with Red Fist. Minor details really. Everyone who has selected a deity on their character sheet from the Players handbook, please choose a comparable one from the Forgotten Realms players guide. I can also suggest one easily based on your core rules selection if you don't want to look it up.

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Offline bhu

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Re: Across the Table (OOC Discussion)
« Reply #849 on: June 17, 2014, 11:39:15 PM »


As a Star Pact Warlock, you'll want to decide whether you want to focus on Con as your main stat or Charisma. Don't make the mistake of pumping both at the expense of Intelligence. WotC went back and errata a bunch of star pact powers to allow them to use either of the two stats, so you really can choose.

Where is the errata at?  A book or the site?

Offline Melblen_Cairn

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Re: Across the Table (OOC Discussion)
« Reply #850 on: June 17, 2014, 11:50:50 PM »
Sounds like we all are well on our way to finalizing what each person would like to play and entering a build phase. Would Friday be a good time frame to have these decided on and at least partially built with finishing it all up and ready to play by Monday? This will give me the weekend to look things over and tailor my treasure distribution and such. I don't want anyone to feel rushed in their creative process, but I don't want to go too long before getting back into it.
Wisdom has two parts; having a lot to say, and not saying it.

Offline VennDygrem

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Re: Across the Table (OOC Discussion)
« Reply #851 on: June 18, 2014, 12:19:31 AM »
Where is the errata at?  A book or the site?

You can find the document with the changes here.

Not all Star pact powers were changed, but several were. The majority of any changes made were simply to allow Con to be used for the attack/damage on certain powers.

As for the hexblade mentioned above, the Hexblade was published in Heroes of the Forgotten Kingdoms, which is one of the Essentials books. As such, it's not on Melblen's approved book list anyway, or else there are some feats I might take in place of some other ones.

Also, I think I'm going to give Dunor another chance, albeit as a Barbarian. Still deciding whether it's most worthwhile to use one of my feats to get a +1 to attack per tier, more hit points via Toughness, or multiclass Fighter to get a 1/encounter attack on someone who attacks one of my allies or shifts away.

If it turns out Nanshork really doesn't like how the Warlord comes out and decides not to play it, I can always go with something elese.

Offline bhu

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Re: Across the Table (OOC Discussion)
« Reply #852 on: June 18, 2014, 01:10:00 AM »
Why is int considered so big for warlocks?

Also if powers dont mention a specific pact can they be used by any warlock? (never mind found answer in arcane power)

Also, starlocks still seem to be split evenly between con and cha.   They just modified Dire Radiance and Doomsayer.  But after looking at available powers im taking con.

THoughts on second feat after something something something infinite void?
« Last Edit: June 18, 2014, 03:27:17 AM by bhu »

Offline Bartholomew

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Re: Across the Table (OOC Discussion)
« Reply #853 on: June 18, 2014, 01:42:18 AM »
The Friday-Monday deadlines sound reasonable.

Offline Bartholomew

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Re: Across the Table (OOC Discussion)
« Reply #854 on: June 18, 2014, 03:30:04 AM »
Also, I will be a Shielding Swordmage so I can provide some pseudo-leader utility in the form of damage reduction.

Offline VennDygrem

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Re: Across the Table (OOC Discussion)
« Reply #855 on: June 18, 2014, 08:06:15 AM »
Int is big for Warlocks because a lot of powers use Int to determine secondary effects, and it helps keep your AC up. Also, any Warlock power can be taken by any Warlock, regardless of pact. You just don't get as big a benefit if your Pact doesn't match (A lot of Humans choose Eyes of the Vestige as their extra at-will if they're Con-based even if they don't have the Vestige pact, apparently, since it can help with spreading your curse to more enemies each round).

As for feats, I still stand by the ones I mentioned above:
Quote
For a Star Pact warlock, Improved Fate of the void is pretty great (especially if you can curse a bunch of enemies and manage to drop them all together, like if the sorcerer manages to blast them all with an area spell). Ulban's Flare will boost your pact at-will quite well. Sacrifice to Caiphon is damned amazing as it lets you regain your encounter powers if you miss all targets, which is great even if you take a little bit of damage for it. Finally, Implement Expertise is useful to prevent missing in the first place. With scaling defenses, each +1 to hit really can make a difference.

Out of those, Implement Expertise will give you a bonus to attack which is always helpful (not quite as good as the Expertise feats published in the Essentials books, but those aren't on the approved list). Ulban's Flare (Dragon 381) makes Dire Radiance deal two extra damage and inflict a -2 penalty to the target's attacks for a round if you attack while you have any level of concealment (which you almost always should from Shadow Walk). Sacrifice to Caiphon (Dragon 366) will make your encounter powers more reliable.

Finally, if you feel like your hit points are a little low, Toughness is never a waste of a feat.
« Last Edit: June 18, 2014, 08:32:06 AM by VennDygrem »

Offline Melblen_Cairn

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Re: Across the Table (OOC Discussion)
« Reply #856 on: June 18, 2014, 08:09:40 AM »
@ bhu
I have always liked the Killing Curse feat. Kicks up your Warlock's curse from d6 to d8s.

I know Int is a secondary score and most of the teleports use the Int mod to determine how far you can move.

@ bart
Nice. We had one in the game in the previous party. Soaked up some decent damage.
Wisdom has two parts; having a lot to say, and not saying it.

Offline Nanshork

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Re: Across the Table (OOC Discussion)
« Reply #857 on: June 18, 2014, 10:58:05 AM »
Looks like I'll be going Warlord.

Offline Melblen_Cairn

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Re: Across the Table (OOC Discussion)
« Reply #858 on: June 18, 2014, 12:50:05 PM »
I know its on your list of classes. I don't want you to feel forced into playing the class if you had your heart set on something else. The Warlord does get you more "in your face" than the other leader roles do. Are you good with playing the Warlord?
Wisdom has two parts; having a lot to say, and not saying it.

Offline Nanshork

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Re: Across the Table (OOC Discussion)
« Reply #859 on: June 18, 2014, 12:59:40 PM »
I know its on your list of classes. I don't want you to feel forced into playing the class if you had your heart set on something else. The Warlord does get you more "in your face" than the other leader roles do. Are you good with playing the Warlord?

Of course!  Don't worry about me, I've learned not to get pushed into playing things I don't want to play (which is mainly spellcasters, I just don't do spellcasters well). 

Everything on that list is something I'm willing to play.  I've never played a leader (I gravitate towards striker and defender), but I feel like we need one and I'm good with playing a warlord.

Don't worry, I put some thought into this.  :)