Battle: Angel Summoner vs BMX Bandit

[Necrosnoop110]

Edit: Oh yeah, another strategy he'll almost certainly be hopeless against:

0) Go first (contingency, etc)
1) Time Stop (maximized via a rod)
2) Shapechange (share spells) on your familiar, to turn it into a beholder.
3) Gate in some horrible beasts which he has no hope of being able to defeat, especially while stuck inside an antimagic area.
4) Hole up inside a Wall of Stone inside of a Prismatic Sphere or whatever, and wait.
5) Time Stop ends, your gated creatures grapple him and turn him into paste, while your familiar is hovering above him and aiming its antimagic eye at him.

Love the battle plan. I believe I comprehend the basic idea. Only second time user a caster at 20th level. Obviously, initiative is important. One question though, how do you use the contingency to go first?

[Gribel]

Edit: Oh yeah, another strategy he'll almost certainly be hopeless against:

0) Go first (contingency, etc)
1) Time Stop (maximized via a rod)
2) Shapechange (share spells) on your familiar, to turn it into a beholder.
3) Gate in some horrible beasts which he has no hope of being able to defeat, especially while stuck inside an antimagic area.
4) Hole up inside a Wall of Stone inside of a Prismatic Sphere or whatever, and wait.
5) Time Stop ends, your gated creatures grapple him and turn him into paste, while your familiar is hovering above him and aiming its antimagic eye at him.

Love the battle plan. I believe I comprehend the basic idea. Only second time user a caster at 20th level. Obviously, initiative is important. One question though, how do you use the contingency to go first?

There might be other ways, but one of them:
Contingency: Celerity
Trigger: Nerveskitter (castable flat footed)

This thread has some insight.

[Endarire]

Nothing in the rules prevents you from setting a contingency trigger as, "Activate when I want to (even if it isn't my turn or I otherwise can't act right now)."  That shouldn't even require an action to activate!

[phaedrusxy]

Edit: Oh yeah, another strategy he'll almost certainly be hopeless against:

0) Go first (contingency, etc)
1) Time Stop (maximized via a rod)
2) Shapechange (share spells) on your familiar, to turn it into a beholder.
3) Gate in some horrible beasts which he has no hope of being able to defeat, especially while stuck inside an antimagic area.
4) Hole up inside a Wall of Stone inside of a Prismatic Sphere or whatever, and wait.
5) Time Stop ends, your gated creatures grapple him and turn him into paste, while your familiar is hovering above him and aiming its antimagic eye at him.

Love the battle plan. I believe I comprehend the basic idea. Only second time user a caster at 20th level. Obviously, initiative is important. One question though, how do you use the contingency to go first?

You know exactly who you're going to fight. Right? (If not, use more Contact Other Plane spells. ). So you can come up with something like "whenever X takes any action within 1 mile of me" or something like that. As long as he doesn't know the exact trigger, you should be able to come up with something more or less foolproof. Or you could go with the Nerveskitter+Celerity combo suggested.

[Endarire]

Remember, celerity and co are from Player's Handbook II and nerveskitter is from Spell Compendium.  They are OUT OF BOUNDS for this challenge, which is core + Completes only!

[phaedrusxy]

Remember, celerity and co are from Player's Handbook II and nerveskitter is from Spell Compendium.  They are OUT OF BOUNDS for this challenge, which is core + Completes only!

Ah, forgot that. Well, whenever "fighter X" is within 500 yards of me is probably good enough. Or "whenever I am in danger in any way", etc.

[linklord231]

Craft Contingent Spell is in one of the Completes.  A Contingent Time Stop would do the trick.  While Nerveskitter is out of bounds, Feather Fall is not. 

Also, why has the Planar Binding line not been mentioned?  With an infinite amount of buff time, you should be walking around with your own personal army of Bound critters.  The last a heck of a lot longer than Gated ones. 

[Endarire]

Rising Above: A Summoner's Guide to the Upper Planes

Practical Demonkeeping: A Summoner's Guide to the Lower Planes

[Necrosnoop110]

Remember, celerity and co are from Player's Handbook II and nerveskitter is from Spell Compendium.  They are OUT OF BOUNDS for this challenge, which is core + Completes only!

Yep, out of bounds for this contest. 


Still confused about the contingency bit in regards to initiative.
(1) Contingency can only have a 6th level or lower spell (Time Stop is 9th level so that won't work, right?)
(2) Contingency could supersede the normal initiative order on careful wording but only to cast a 6th level or lower spell that effects me, how does that allow me to go first once the real initiative comes up? (especially since nerveskitters and celerity are a no go)   

[OutlawPhilosopher]

I suppose you could try to lower the level of Time Stop via stupid tricks (Sanctum Spell, metamagic reduction below 0). Alternatively, Craft Contingent Spell (hideously borked, but whatever) doesn't seem to have a level limit on the contingent effect. Also, you could have 20 of them.

Moment of prescience (possibly made contingent via tricks or CCS, but you can also just cast it in advance) could probably give you +25 to your initiative roll (I think initiative is technically an opposed ability check). Foresight can prevent you from being flatfooted. Eager Warning // Spellstrike Defending Quarterstaff w/ greater magic weapon is +7 (and various other bonuses.) Shapechange into a Gloom is +18 more. Shouldn't be too hard to get more than +50 on your init check.

Another suggestion is psionic contingency + anticipatory strike (or indeed synchronicity). You can easily hit the UPD check to use the dorjes (even with 1 rank, limited wish for divine insight is +15, plus a rank, plus 3 CHA (Eagle's Splendour, if you need it) is +19.) I actually think this might be the best method of all.

[Tohron]

Unfortunately, I can't find any rules for getting hit by a falling, pointed object - guess a baseline could be the damage of a medium battleaxe (6 dmg, 6 lbs.) vs a small battleaxe(4 max dmg, 3 lbs.) - so using the formula that double weight increases damage by 50%, you could get an approximate damage value (for a 1.5 ton object, that's 202 damage max, so about 34d6).  Of course, the amount of houseruling needed might make this more trouble than it's worth.

Or, you could just read the rules

I was referring to a falling pointed object - obviously the damage for a falling blunt object would be a baseline, but you might expect a pointed object to do more *shrugs*.

Regarding Moment of Prescience - Sanctum Spell could only drop it to level 7 - so you'd need something else to put it in a Contingency.

[Endarire]

Initiative isn't an opposed check.  It isn't, say, Hide vs. Spot.  It's a bunch of numbers that usually get organized into a list.

[EjoThims]

Initiative isn't an opposed check.  It isn't, say, Hide vs. Spot.  It's a bunch of numbers that usually get organized into a list.

It's an ability check, keying off Dex. And there are opposing rolls. I would say that certainly falls under the blanket of opposed check.

[Cyclone Joker]

I didn't read the rules!

Yes, I know.

Initiative isn't an opposed check.  It isn't, say, Hide vs. Spot.  It's a bunch of numbers that usually get organized into a list.

It's an ability check, keying off Dex. And there are opposing rolls. I would say that certainly falls under the blanket of opposed check.

Uh, no.

Initiative Checks
At the start of a battle, each combatant makes an initiative check. An initiative check is a Dexterity check. Each character applies his or her Dexterity modifier to the roll. Characters act in order, counting down from highest result to lowest. In every round that follows, the characters act in the same order (unless a character takes an action that results in his or her initiative changing; see Special Initiative Actions).

If two or more combatants have the same initiative check result, the combatants who are tied act in order of total initiative modifier (highest first). If there is still a tie, the tied characters should roll again to determine which one of them goes before the other.

See anything about opposed rolls there? No? Yeah, see, reading is kinda pro. Now, you may not have heard, but there's this new-fangled device known as the "Internet." Through this, you can find unimaginable wonders such as basic rules, and this magical, totally unthinkably advanced thing known as the "SRD."

[muktidata]

Ejo, initiative is not an opposed check. Cyclone, that response was unnecessarily harsh. Necro, why don't you post a build and tactics now that you've succeeded on a gather information check. From there we could help you refine them. You have literally no chance of losing if you use some of the advice given.

[phaedrusxy]

Remember, celerity and co are from Player's Handbook II and nerveskitter is from Spell Compendium.  They are OUT OF BOUNDS for this challenge, which is core + Completes only!

Yep, out of bounds for this contest. 


Still confused about the contingency bit in regards to initiative.
(1) Contingency can only have a 6th level or lower spell (Time Stop is 9th level so that won't work, right?)
(2) Contingency could supersede the normal initiative order on careful wording but only to cast a 6th level or lower spell that effects me, how does that allow me to go first once the real initiative comes up? (especially since nerveskitters and celerity are a no go)

Teleport is a 5th level spell, for example. So you could have a Contingency Teleport you away, then cast Time Stop and Teleport back, and commence with the ass-kicking.

[OutlawPhilosopher]

Derp. Yeah, you're all quite right. Initiative is a dex check, but not an opposed one. (There's no way for initiative to "succeed" so it's quite impossible for its success to be dependent on another character's roll.) My bad. I also made casual reference to some weapon properties from MIC, which is not, in fact, in core. I'm stupid at certain times of day.

I do think the psionics workaround for the lack of Celerity is pretty legitimate, though.

[Tohron]

Remember, celerity and co are from Player's Handbook II and nerveskitter is from Spell Compendium.  They are OUT OF BOUNDS for this challenge, which is core + Completes only!

Yep, out of bounds for this contest. 


Still confused about the contingency bit in regards to initiative.
(1) Contingency can only have a 6th level or lower spell (Time Stop is 9th level so that won't work, right?)
(2) Contingency could supersede the normal initiative order on careful wording but only to cast a 6th level or lower spell that effects me, how does that allow me to go first once the real initiative comes up? (especially since nerveskitters and celerity are a no go)

Teleport is a 5th level spell, for example. So you could have a Contingency Teleport you away, then cast Time Stop and Teleport back, and commence with the ass-kicking.

Teleport couldn't move you outside the arena though, since the arena is the plane.

New idea:  Santum Teleport Object could be a 6th level spell, so you could contingent-teleport a vat and some Quintessence(use WBL to have previously paid psions to create it) around the fighter at the start of the fight.  Instead of ensuring you go first, you ensure he goes last.

[EjoThims]

Ejo, initiative is not an opposed check.

"Opposed Checks
An opposed check is a check whose success or failure is determined by comparing the check result to another character’s check result. In an opposed check, the higher result succeeds, while the lower result fails. In case of a tie, the higher skill modifier wins. If these scores are the same, roll again to break the tie."

Compare results. The higher result succeeds in acting first, the lower result fails to do so. If there is a tie, the higher modifier wins. The only variance is that there is sometimes more than two rolls to compare, which would be completely covered by specific over general.

How does initiative not fall under this category???

[Cyclone Joker]

Ejo, initiative is not an opposed check.

"Opposed Checks
An opposed check is a check whose success or failure is determined by comparing the check result to another character’s check result. In an opposed check, the higher result succeeds, while the lower result fails. In case of a tie, the higher skill modifier wins. If these scores are the same, roll again to break the tie."

Compare results. The higher result succeeds in acting first, the lower result fails to do so. If there is a tie, the higher modifier wins. The only variance is that there is sometimes more than two rolls to compare, which would be completely covered by specific over general.

How does initiative not fall under this category???

Because it isn't. In order: Success or failure? Not part of initiative. The higher modifier wins? Yeah, no.

Really, are you even capable of reading? Or did you magically stumble on a bunch of invisible text that only you can see?