"Person" class tier consideration

[FlaminCows]

Consider this class:

(click to show/hide)

PERSON


   
"He's just this guy, y'know?"

 Persons often go on adventures. They do stuff pretty well!

MAKING A PERSON
Starting Gold: 6d4x10(150 gp)
Starting Age: As rogue.

Class Skills
All skills are class skills for persons.
Skill Points at 1st Level: (10 + int)x4
Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 10 + int

Hit Dice: d12

Level	Base Attack Bonus	Fort Save	Ref Save	Will Save
1st	+1	+2	+2	+2
2nd	+2	+3	+3	+3
3rd	+3	+3	+3	+3
4th	+4	+4	+4	+4
5th	+5	+4	+4	+4
6th	+6/+1	+5	+5	+5
7th	+7/+2	+5	+5	+5
8th	+8/+3	+6	+6	+6
9th	+9/+4	+6	+6	+6
10th	+10/+5	+7	+7	+7
11th	+11/+6/+1	+7	+7	+7
12th	+12/+7/+2	+8	+8	+8
13th	+13/+8/+3	+8	+8	+8
14th	+14/+9/+4	+9	+9	+9
15th	+15/+10/+5	+9	+9	+9
16th	+16/+11/+6/+1	+10	+10	+10
17th	+17/+12/+7/+2	+10	+10	+10
18th	+18/+13/+8/+3	+11	+11	+11
19th	+19/+14/+9/+4	+11	+11	+11
20th	+20/+15/+10/+5	+12	+12	+12

Weapon and Armor Proficiencies: A person is proficient with all simple and martial weapons and with all armor (heavy, medium, and light) and shields (including tower shields).


NPC Reaction
 When meeting persons, NPCs don't know what to expect. They generally react according to the person's appearance and disposition rather than their class.

PERSONS IN THE GAME
 Adaptation: One interesting way to adapt this class for your campaign is to give it some actual class features.
 Encounters: Persons can be found anywhere. They do the things persons do.

Yes, it is just full BAB, all good saves, d12 hit die, all skills as class skills and 10+int skill points with no special features. Its purpose is to be a baseline comparison, and so comes the vital question: what tier would this class be?

[Sinfire Titan]

Tier 6, Tier 5 at best. Literally everything it does, another class does better (albeit not all at once). Base stats like BAB, HD size, skill points, base saves, and class skills only go so far for anyone; Past level 10 or so the lack of class features would really take hold. It could pull off the typical Charger build, but it would be doing so the same way the NPC Warrior class does.

While it has the best chasis, there's no engine. Or seats. Or steering wheel. Or headlights. Or a paint job.

[Jackinthegreen]

I'm not sure the car analogy is accurate here because the chassis and frame actually plays a much more significant role for cars than it does for D&D classes.

Let's go straight to Wizard: A select few simple weapons, no armor, d4 health, only good will saves, poor BAB, and 2 skill points per level.  It's T1 because of spells.  This "person" class would be T5 due to skills more than anything else (like Expert), and that's assuming expanded skills like Iaijutsu Focus.  Without worthwhile class features it's not going anywhere.

[veekie]

Makes a handy NPC though.

[RobbyPants]

Good dip class for one level. Maaaybe two levels.

It basically gives you everything you want from a fighter dip minus the feat, but in it's place, you get more HP, a boost to two more saves, a lot of skill points, and whatever skills you want as class skills. So now your gishes and uberchargers can all get UMD.

Other than that, there's no reason to write the last 18 to 19 levels of the class.

[ImperatorK]

Monk sux even with no dead levels. Just saying.

[InnaBinder]

It also lets you cheese Lucid Dreaming or Iajitsu Focus, in theory.

[brujon]

I agree with everyone here... T5/T6, T5 if using expanded skills and/or charging stuff, T6 otherwise.

Character would be a powerhouse at the early levels of the game, steamrolling encounters and being able to be alive, if smart with item use. After level 5, when everyone is starting to get their bread & butter class features and many are starting a path to PrC's and stuff? They'd fade out like they weren't even there.

And i'd suggest renaming it... This class is no hero material, but it's not any ordinary person, either. At level 1 it's arguably better than any other melee class, possibly any class period.

[FlaminCows]

Thanks guys, that's basically all I needed to know. I knew it was at least tier 5 because Expert is in tier 5 and this is strictly better, but I wanted to see if that pattern could be stretched to Tier 4, comparable to a Rogue. Apparently not. The class isn't meant to be played, I wrote it to get a judgement on the maximum value of a chassis.

[lans]

Its clearly at least tier 5, as its like an expert, but better, with +1-5 to hit, ~1 damage, d6 more HD, 2/3 more skills, and no restriction on skills known. As well as better armor and shield access.

It's probably a very high tier 5

Why no exotic weapons?

[FlaminCows]

Why no exotic weapons?

No particular reason, since its mostly to figure out how many tiers the chassis alone can take you. Adding exotic weapons to the starting proficiencies just makes it a better dip class, it wouldn't affect the tier. I guess you could add "Proficient with all exotic weapons and armour" as a fifth-level feature. Wouldn't make a lick of a difference.

[lans]

Why no exotic weapons?

No particular reason, since its mostly to figure out how many tiers the chassis alone can take you. Adding exotic weapons to the starting proficiencies just makes it a better dip class, it wouldn't affect the tier. I guess you could add "Proficient with all exotic weapons and armour" as a fifth-level feature. Wouldn't make a lick of a difference.

All the exotics would be a bit stronger, once various things get added in like suglin, boomerangs, nets, lassos, and a bunch of things that are surprisingly nice if you get them for free. It might be the difference between bottom of the barrel  tier 4 and high tier 5

[Demelain]

It's probably one of the best first levels, though. 12+CON hit points, +1 BAB, +2 al lsaves, and (10+INT *4) Skill points? Yes please.

[awaken_D_M_golem]

"Person" > Expert ... but yeah, not by much. 
Especially after say level 6.
Without Trapfinding early, there's a party slot
it doesn't fill at all.

[LOKY1109]

Something wrong in 17th+ lvls. I mean BAB.

[RobbyPants]

Something wrong in 17th+ lvls. I mean BAB.

Yeah, I missed that. He somehow gets a 5th iterative attack.

[InnaBinder]

Something wrong in 17th+ lvls. I mean BAB.

Yeah, I missed that. He somehow gets a 5th iterative attack.

The error is in the 3rd iterative from level 17.

[RobbyPants]

Something wrong in 17th+ lvls. I mean BAB.

Yeah, I missed that. He somehow gets a 5th iterative attack.

The error is in the 3rd iterative from level 17.

Yeah, I see where it started. Still, the biggest effect is a 5th iterative attack, which you would normally never get.

[Halinn]

Even if it granted a 5th iterative, it'd be mostly pointless, because only having base attack +1 on it means that the math isn't in favor of power attacking low enough that it will have a high chance of hitting.

[FlaminCows]

Fixed the error. Just a typo that I hadn't noticed and continued on with. Happens all the time