Author Topic: Method for bypassing 1 contingent spell limit  (Read 4527 times)

Offline OutlawPhilosopher

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Method for bypassing 1 contingent spell limit
« on: December 30, 2012, 03:18:28 AM »
So, there's something really weird in the text of contingency. Contingency says that
"You can use only one contingency spell at a time; if a second is cast, the first one (if still active) is dispelled."

Now, I'm not sure if what I'm about to propose works. The reason I'm not sure is that "useing" a spell is not a normal term in the game rules. However, in my view, the natural way to take this is that the second clause explains the first. The reason you can only use one contingency at a time is that whenever you cast a new one, the old one is dispelled.

Exhibit b) "Spell Rebirth." Lexicon of the Evolving Mind 4. This restores one effect that was "dispelled" in the previous round.

So, we cast a contingent fireball (for some reason.) Then we cast another contingent fireball. Once the second one finishes casting, the first is dispelled. We immediately use Spell Rebirth. The old contingency, which was, after all, "dispelled," is immediately "restored" and "resumed." It is not, however, "cast." This means that the dispelling clause does not kick in, and both the restored contingency and the second cast contingency are now in effect.

Getting more than two requires either a) multiple spell rebirths or b) taking literally the clause that says that if a second contingency is cast the first is dispelled. If this is all that is true, then casting a third contingency will not dispel anything. Even if it dispels only the previous one, one spell rebirth will allow us to continue the contingency chain.

(At epic levels, "Tenacious Magic (contingency)" would do this far more effectively)

What say (well, I mean, this is pretty clearly stupid and few DMs would allow it, but is it technically RAW? Or have I already stretched RAW in my attempt to figure out what the 1-contingency clause actually means in game terms?)

Offline Maat Mons

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Re: Method for bypassing 1 contingent spell limit
« Reply #1 on: December 30, 2012, 04:56:35 AM »
Well, the tenacious magic rout might have a problem.  You can dispel your own tenacious spells. 

Offline OutlawPhilosopher

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Re: Method for bypassing 1 contingent spell limit
« Reply #2 on: December 30, 2012, 01:33:49 PM »
I noticed that. I don't think it's at all clear though that the rules of the universe/game dispelling your spell is equivalent to you dispelling it.

Offline littha

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Re: Method for bypassing 1 contingent spell limit
« Reply #3 on: December 30, 2012, 05:28:21 PM »
Personally I would avoid the whole issue and use craft contingent spell or the chain contingency spell.

Offline nijineko

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Re: Method for bypassing 1 contingent spell limit
« Reply #4 on: January 30, 2013, 04:50:03 PM »
turn it into an item. then you can carry as many as you want / dm-sanity-inventory-limit will allow.

Offline ariasderros

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Re: Method for bypassing 1 contingent spell limit
« Reply #5 on: January 30, 2013, 04:57:41 PM »
Even if you have more than one Contingency up, you can only actually benefit from one.
Quote from: SRD
Same Effect with Differing Results
The same spell can sometimes produce varying effects if applied to the same recipient more than once. Usually the last spell in the series trumps the others. None of the previous spells are actually removed or dispelled, but their effects become irrelevant while the final spell in the series lasts.
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Offline Eldritch_Lord

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Re: Method for bypassing 1 contingent spell limit
« Reply #6 on: January 31, 2013, 04:11:55 PM »
Even if you have more than one Contingency up, you can only actually benefit from one.
Quote from: SRD
Same Effect with Differing Results
The same spell can sometimes produce varying effects if applied to the same recipient more than once. Usually the last spell in the series trumps the others. None of the previous spells are actually removed or dispelled, but their effects become irrelevant while the final spell in the series lasts.

The example given for that rule of multiple polymorph spells cast in sequence (which is in the PHB but not in the SRD) makes it fairly clear that that when it says "the last spell in the series trumps the others" it's talking about how you can't polymorph into a lion and then polymorph into a hydra and end up as some sort of lion-hydra hybrid, not a situation where you have something like multiple resist energy spells keyed to different elements or multiple contingencies with different trigger conditions.  The latter spells can interact with each other just fine without interfering with each other where in the former case they just overwrite each other.

Offline nijineko

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Re: Method for bypassing 1 contingent spell limit
« Reply #7 on: January 31, 2013, 11:45:40 PM »
i think my point is still valid. turn the crafted contingent spells into single use items. carry lots. problem solved.

Offline ariasderros

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Re: Method for bypassing 1 contingent spell limit
« Reply #8 on: February 01, 2013, 01:56:46 PM »
The example given for that rule of multiple polymorph spells cast in sequence (which is in the PHB but not in the SRD) makes it fairly clear that that when it says "the last spell in the series trumps the others" it's talking about how you can't polymorph into a lion and then polymorph into a hydra and end up as some sort of lion-hydra hybrid, not a situation where you have something like multiple resist energy spells keyed to different elements or multiple contingencies with different trigger conditions.  The latter spells can interact with each other just fine without interfering with each other where in the former case they just overwrite each other.

That is one interpretation of the RAI. I, personally would agree with it in most scenarios, like with a psion using Animal Affinity, amongst others. And to say the least, when I get back to my EG handbook, I'll probably just quote your analysis rather that re-write it myself (you said it more clearly than I would've).
But, the example doesn't change the wording of the RAW.

Now, I don't think the RAW was worded correctly, and your version of the RAI is likely closer to the intent, but that's in "we'll never know what the Developers were thinking, because we don't have that much crack" territory.
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Offline Quillwraith

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Re: Method for bypassing 1 contingent spell limit
« Reply #9 on: February 01, 2013, 05:22:00 PM »
If you only benefit from the more recent casting, the other still remains to be used after the first is discharged; really it just puts a restraint on which order they are triggered in.

Offline PlzBreakMyCampaign

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Re: Method for bypassing 1 contingent spell limit
« Reply #10 on: February 03, 2013, 09:52:41 PM »
This is TO because it assumes the "reactivation" of the 1st contingency spell doesn't proc the quoted text to dispel the 2nd contingency.

That said, it is a beautiful solution and somewhat helps explain the level of that truenaming ability.