Level Equivalencies for Servants

[Raineh Daze]

Basically, for some time I've been trying to work out around what level Servants would fall in a D&D setting. Now, given that 5th level is normal human maximum and every last Servant is literally beyond that, it's certain that they're above level 5. The three highest-end abilities are 'destroy world by breaking reality, minimal power expenditure', 'complete invulnerability and perfect regeneration', and 'summon seemingly boundless army of Servants'. Two of those are tied to weapons, yes, but since they're literally unusable by anyone else they seem like they'd fall under the abilities section.


Now, the problem is that, aside from knowing the upper level cap they could be is 'very high', I'm... kind of lost on actually filling things in. 


Now, starting with the 'base' 9, from Fate/Stay Night, I think I've got a rough idea of raw ability (assuming no-one's holding back or hampered in any way):

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-Gilgamesh (aforementioned world-destroying sword, stated to be worth three of the others if he'd stop lazing about)
-Heracles (Unfortunately, he actually falls a few steps further down during the course of the story due to insanity)
-Arturia/Altria/Saber/King Arthur (The invulnerability thing. She doesn't have it most of the time, due to circumstances)
-Cu Chulainn/Lancer (Instakill spear, spellcasting, doesn't die easily... and the worst luck ever. XD)
-Medusa (If she uncovers her eyes, simply being NEAR her will, at best, slow you down. If you don't have enough power, petrification)
-Archer/EMIYA (Notably, the only modern Servant, he's pretty weak--but he has a huge amount of skill and the ability to copy weaponry and the knowledge of how to use it fully to make up for it)
-Medea (Fragile. VERY fragile. Can cast spells with a word. So, if she was a D&D spellcaster, that's casting as a Free Action. No Wish or the like for her. Doesn't help that most Servants have some degree of magic immunity)
-True Assassin (Not a fighter. Can crush your heart from a distance, though)
-Fake Assassin (He... can swing a normal, non-mythological sword so that it breaks reality. Poor guy, he's not even a proper Servant. With assistance from Medea, he can fight everyone else off, though True Assassin isn't around if he is)

So... does anyone have any ideas?


Notably, this entire thing has been banging around in my head because I was trying to work out what would happen if someone with Gilgamesh's abilities decided to conquer the Forgotten Realms pre 4e. XD

[Bozwevial]

Prime's done some work statting out F/SN characters. That might be useful as a baseline to tweak.

[Raineh Daze]

... seeing that he's statted Rin out as level 16, that's going to need a lot of tweaking. She knows some martial arts, managed to store up enough power by the war to blow a building up, and (in conjunction with Shirou and Ilya) managed to wield and imperfect copy of a magical artefact. Gilgamesh's class choice is also... really, really weird.

Zero Berserker. Hmm... kind of... messy, really. XD

The problem there is that's statting out the Servants as if they are D&D characters, whilst this is an attempt to work out where their power falls against D&D characters. D&D characters have a lot more options (except over Gilgamesh), but on raw capabilities (which did come up in the thread--human physical capability? Less than E-rank. Only Servant that weak is Medea, Zero Caster can still crush skulls with on hand) probably drop behind them a lot.

I think it's also understating the difference in power between Saber, Zero Berserker, and Gilgamesh (respectively: one of the most powerful, greatest sword-wielder as admitted by the first, 3x stronger) whilst making Rin and Dark Sakura waaay too strong (being connected to the thing behind the wars and Angra Mainyu is a massive advantage against Servants) from sheer capability.

[oslecamo]

Well the problem here is that the servants are as unbalanced as it gets.

Saber is tecnically a blade specialist. She's beaten by a completely inexperienced knife user two times out of three. An unarmed human with some magic buffs will get her in her knees gasping for breath. She can't scratch berseker for the sake of anyone's life while even Shirou managed to chop off an arm from that one. Saber's only redeeming quality is that she can shoot uber nukes from Excalibur and uber Avalon Shield. Both which Shirou can replicate.

Berseker struggles to beat Archer, but Shirou with Archer's Arm wipes the floor with Zero berseker.

Then Shirou with Archer's arm (ARCHER) also goes out there and wipes the floor with Dark Saber in a blade match.

So yes, for a suposed sword user, Saber has a terrible record on blade fights. She beats who whitout her nuke again? Fake assassin? Depressed caster?

Meanwhile "Archer" doesn't only show excellent melee qualities, fighting close and personal against Lancer, but Archer can also replicate Excalibur and Avalon and whatnot.

Lancer's "insta kill" lance only works on himself. Oh, wait, Gilgamesh used it to finish off Berseker. So Gilgamesh and Archer can do Lancer's work better than he does.

Assassin is weak, but has the redeeming quality of super unbetable stealth aura. At least Gilgamesh and Archer can't replicate that one.


Tosaka is an artificer that happens to craft scrolls on the form of gemstones

[Raineh Daze]

The only time Saber's ever at her real strength is during UBW, when Rin's her Master. When it's Shirou, she just doesn't have the power to fight properly. She also fails to damage Berserker from either not using Excalibur (Invisible Air is too low ranked) directly, or being drained from preceding events. Also worth noting is that Saber is the one Servant that, strictly speaking, isn't dead--she's literally grabbed from the aftermath of Camlann and healed. Finally, Saber Alter? That wrecks her speed (and Shirou's at Servant abilities by then) and lessons her actual abilities.

Berserker should never have been Berserker. The Einzbern REALLY messed up on that one. The power gains are minimal when you consider that it's Heracles; he could've been summoned as literally anything but Caster but they went and chose Berserker. Also, Shirou never fought Zero Berserker (since that happened when he was five-ish), he fought Heracles. Heracles without God Hand (so no invincibility), blind, and drastically weakened.

Umm... yes, Shirou channelling all of Archer's skill was able to beat a Saber that had her speed stripped and her combat ability lessened. Your point?

Archer is good with a sword? May I repeat the first line of Unlimited Blade Works? I am the bone of my sword. He is a good Archer as well, but he does a lot of swordfighting. He also can't replicate Excalibur (trying would kill him) and Avalon only works if Saber's around. Guess what happened to Shirou in the Normal End of Heaven's Feel and Fate.

Gae Bolg rewrites causality. There're two ways to defeat it: have luck that defies that (which still left Saber wrecked) or back out of range before he uses it (Interesting point: Archer has seen all this before).

Assassin is an assassin. That is the entire point of Assassin. Do not engage in direct confrontation with Servants (Fake Assassin, meanwhile, was a gatekeeper), take out the Masters. Assassin is, of course, going to lose in a fight to absolutely anyone but Caster.

Rin is actually irrelevant to the discussion since, unsurprisingly, she's not a Servant. Shirou is relevant insofar as he becomes Archer.


Anyway, going on about how Saber has a bad track record when 'just' slashing things doesn't help answer the question at all. Yes, she does a lot better when she uses it like a nuke/has Avalon because, well, that's kind of the point of Noble Phantasms. They're trump cards. Archer is constantly taking advantage of Unlimited Blade Works and having seen all the Servants fight before, Lancer is screwed over because Kirei doesn't want him to fight.

Overall, I'd rather look at their actual capabilities than how they perform in a story that would get rapidly boring if events conspired so that Saber was always at full strength or Lancer kept spamming Gae Bolg.


EDIT: Having checked with someone that remembers Heaven's Feel better than I do, it was also Shirou and Rider vs Saber Alter, rather than a straight fight. The odds are always stacked against her in this thing. XD


It's also a good idea to remember, if you include fighting Fake Assassin, that if she got within range to engage him properly, he got to use Tsubame Gaeshi, which she did manage to avoid... after damaging his sword so it wasn't working perfectly. It is undodgeable, after all.

[Quillwraith]

... The invulnerability thing. She doesn't have it most of the time, due to circumstances.
... So, if she was a D&D spellcaster, that's casting as a Free Action.
... Can crush your heart from a distance, though)
... He... can swing a normal, non-mythological sword so that it breaks reality.

These are all epic level abilities. If Gilgamesh is worth any 3 others, that makes him level 28 minimum.

[Raineh Daze]

I'm not so sure about Tsubame Gaeshi--whilst it does break reality, the mechanical effect is to be sliced in three ways. So long as his sword isn't broken, it's impossible to dodge because the slashes are literally simultaneous.

Gilgamesh's key ability list:
1) Sword that blows up the world
2) Treasury containing the overwhelming majority of mythological items (I know that it contains Gungnir off the top of my head and the aforementioned sword, as well as an ancient Hindu spaceship. It explicitly doesn't contain Excalibur or, following on from that, Avalon or Arondight) that can be either used properly, or launched at people as hypersonic mythological projectiles. Multiple at once.
3) Attract wealth to him. All wealth. It is literally impossible for him to be poor.
4) Chains that get stronger the more godly you are, can be shot out of said treasury to bind you.
5) Ludicrously strong armour (it outright nullifies a lot of attacks from these things, and even when Excalibur--the aforementioned nuke sword--is used, he's still in one piece to talk before dying).
6) Apparently, so charismatic it's more a curse than actual popularity.

[oslecamo]

Under Shirou's command, Saber still had enough power to nuke the hell out of Rider, Berseker and Gilgamesh. She's a pretty good nuker overall, she should definetely be summoned as Caster one of these days (since Caster herself doesn't seem to ever manage to nuke anything, damn magic resistance that Excalibur ignores, altough she's a damn impressive dagger fighter).

Grafted Shirou is also still alive. What Saber Alter lost in speed(which wasn't much by her stat changes) she more than gained in raw power. And Shirou had most of his brain fried by then.

Dunno if using Excalibur actually kills Shirou (with the Holy Grail exploding and he being at the verge of death already). However we know Shirou can replicate Avalon whitout geting himself killed.

Archer replicates that greek shield to stop Gae Bolg. That's quite a bit of exclusions for something that's suposed to be a one-hit kill.

Also Archer is simply much better with a sword than shooting stuff. Or did he ever manage to finish anyone with a ranged attack and I missed it? Again, Archer wins by stabbing close and personal and Saber wins by shooting from some distance away. There's something very wrong with that.

Dark Berseker was blind, but still had God Hand, and was being pumped full of power directly from the Dark Grail. Shirou simply replicated nine-lives to kill him nine times in a row.

Assassin isn't just weaker than other servants-he's weaker than trained humans like the knife monk. And knife monk got the tar beaten out of him by non-grafted Shirou.

EDIT: And you can have Shirou solo Dark Saber on Heaven's Feel. It just makes his brain fully fried and a bad end (but awesome custom music).

[Raineh Daze]

Saber has a minor issue with never getting a fair fight. The few times that does happen, the enemy has a trick on their side. Or it's the end of the story.

Caster knew that nuking most people was pointless. There was a reason her plan was 'get Saber onto my team, use Saber, Kouzuki, and Assassin to win the war'. She actually gets part of the way there in UBW.

Shirou and Rider beat Saber Alter. The last thing he could do was fight, though, since he was doing that up until he was dead. Then a bit longer, before stopping entirely.

Replicating Avalon is fine. The downside is that it doesn't function without Saber around. Literally. Hence, whilst Archer could project Avalon, it would be absolutely useless unless he was fighting Saber and bleeding to death.

Rho Aias stops projectile weapons. Gae Bolg has two functions. The first is a short-ranged technique that bends reality to stab you in the heart. The other is basically carpet bombing. It's the second thing that Rho Aias stops, not the first (that's unblockable, again: the cause is 'stabbed in the heart', the effect is 'doing the stabbing'--it turns causality backwards).

I think he uses Caladbolg II at one point? He fires it so that it doesn't actually kill Caster, though. He blows up a cemetery instead, for some reason, when using it on Berserker. Remember, though, that Unlimited Blade Works copies the history of everything it replicates, so as well as his own skill, he gets the skill of the original wielders of the weapon. Basically, instant proficiency.

Nope, Black Berserker was crippled.

In Heaven's Feel, after Berserker was devoured by Zōken's shadow, the shadow regurgitated him as Dark Berserker, a decrepit and blind version of his former self.
Dark Berserker, while distracted by Ilya, was finally killed by Shirou with a projected variation of his own weapon, Nine Lives.

It was more a coup de grace than any great fight.

If by Assassin you mean True Assassin, and by knife Monk you mean Kirei: he's trained to kill spirits. Servants are spirits with a magical body. That wasn't much of an advantage, but there was also the downside that by that point he had no heart for the insta-kill ability to affect. Seriously, he lost that in Fate/Zero.

Oh, and dying Kirei and Shirou with Archer's arm had a fight at the end of Heaven's Feel. It was a pretty close thing. The fight at the end of Fate? Umm... Shirou was by Saber and had Avalon. Kirei had no clue what was going on after Angra Mainyu failed to kill Shirou and didn't react in time.


EDIT: Saying it's Shirou vs Saber is probably where this is going wrong. It's not Shirou's abilities being used, it's Archer's. And Archer is capable of fighting a weakened Saber. Servant vs Servant tends to be either close or a curbstomp. No fun otherwise. XD


EDIT #2: I've checked and Archer did rain down swords to kill Caster in UBW, so he does do ranged stuff. The Servant classes aren't perfect descriptors, either (Zero Berserker is very berserk and very skilled, /Stay Night Rider doesn't do much riding, Zero Caster can't cast...)

[oslecamo]

I get it, I get it, the old "none of the fights was actually fair and almost nobody remembers to use the right power in the right situation" argument >< (altough I'll point out that Caster does win the Holy Grail war in one of the bad ends when she gets Saber under her command). I give up, back on the main topic.

The problem there is that's statting out the Servants as if they are D&D characters, whilst this is an attempt to work out where their power falls against D&D characters. D&D characters have a lot more options (except over Gilgamesh), but on raw capabilities (which did come up in the thread--human physical capability? Less than E-rank. Only Servant that weak is Medea, Zero Caster can still crush skulls with on hand) probably drop behind them a lot.

I think it's also understating the difference in power between Saber, Zero Berserker, and Gilgamesh (respectively: one of the most powerful, greatest sword-wielder as admitted by the first, 3x stronger) whilst making Rin and Dark Sakura waaay too strong (being connected to the thing behind the wars and Angra Mainyu is a massive advantage against Servants) from sheer capability.

-No matter how strong each servant are, they are all weak enough to be binded and ordered around by mortal mages.
-Gilgamesh's "world breaker" is probably more an euphemism than anything since in no situation the destruction spreads beyond a single building. It can still wipe out a literal army of mooks tough so not too shabby.
-Caster isn't casting as a free action or Tokasahsa (or anyone) would've never been able to beat her as she would literally be able to instantly and completely saturate the field with danmaku and minions. You can't dodge if there's no room to dodge to after all. Even if you could she would then just teleport as a free action if you were still standing. So probably just free quicken spell (even a single word still takes time. Just ask the Power Word spells)

[Raineh Daze]

Ah, now you're misunderstanding fundamental concepts.

Rule #1 of True Magic: it breaks rules. For instance, it is impossible to normally summon a Heroic Spirit in any form at all, because they're so much more powerful than any magus.

What is behind the summoning of Servants? The Third Magic. That takes a Heroic Spirit from the Throne of Heroes, and puts them into a constructed body of mana. Why? Because a Heroic Spirit, at full strength is a literal force of nature that's too powerful to directly summon with their full ability; hence the class system. Command seals work because of this system--and even then, there's a finite amount.

Ea does indeed break worlds. He's holding back (for completely obvious reasons this time: he lives here).

Finally, Caster's casting:

High-Speed Divine Words (高速神言 , Kousoku Shingon?) is the power to activate thaumaturgy without the use of Magic Circuits. The language of the Age of Gods, back when words played a heavy role in spellcasting. To a user of Divine Words, actualization of mysteries is not done through a process, but more through a direct order. A power long lost by modern magi.
Due to her use of Divine Words, Caster’s spells do not work the same way that of those of modern Magecraft. For one, she can cast even High Thaumaturgy-level spells with the speed equivalent of Single-Action ones. Furthermore, while the majority of her spells fall under the One-Line category, their power-level is easily in par with Five-Line ones. Finally, due to the different dynamics, only a Servant with Magic Resistance ranked A or above is immune to her spells.

Single Action: you just activate it. One Line: one word, minimum. If you check her page on the wiki, it lists most of her spells (including an army of skeletal soldiers and a laser bombing run--so yes, she does use both minions and danmaku, Rin getting in close was hardly expected).

EDIT: Ah, here it is:

Her main offensive spell is Rain of Light (光弾雨, Koudanu?), which is a volley of rapidly fired beams of light each with an A rank power of attack. Each beam is a deadly spell on the level of High Thaumaturgy with three times Shirou's entire amount of prana, capable of destroying the body of a Servant with a direct hit. Just the use of one single beam would normally require a magic circle, ten count aria, and one minute of casting for a normal magus, and still thirty seconds with a High-Speed Aria. Caster's Divine Words allow her to shoot them in rapid succession without any preparation after simply targeting the enemy with her wand. She can fire them without pause when she has a supply of stored prana, and the result is something that resembles a bombing raid that leaves the ground scorching red.

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Servant Magic Resistance is the main reason she isn't as dangerous as all this suggests.

[oslecamo]

Ah, now you're misunderstanding fundamental concepts.

Rule #1 of True Magic: it breaks rules. For instance, it is impossible to normally summon a Heroic Spirit in any form at all, because they're so much more powerful than any magus.

What is behind the summoning of Servants? The Third Magic. That takes a Heroic Spirit from the Throne of Heroes, and puts them into a constructed body of mana. Why? Because a Heroic Spirit, at full strength is a literal force of nature that's too powerful to directly summon with their full ability; hence the class system. Command seals work because of this system--and even then, there's a finite amount.

Magic users break rules. It's their job description basically. A good example would be the gate spell that indeed allows a D&D mage to summon something a lot stronger than themselves and make them obey. It doesn't matter if you're using Third Magic or tortured souls of children or highschool students. At the end of the day it was mortal mages that decided to start the Grail War and found a way of making servants fight for them abusing Third Magic.

Ea does indeed break worlds. He's holding back (for completely obvious reasons this time: he lives here).

That was just the breaking of an artificial extradimensional space, which I had already mentioned.

Plus in the wiki description of that battle, it says what actually hapened was that Rider's reality is holded by his army of minor heroic spirits, and if enough of them get gibbed, it colapses.

Finally, Caster's casting:

High-Speed Divine Words (高速神言 , Kousoku Shingon?) is the power to activate thaumaturgy without the use of Magic Circuits. The language of the Age of Gods, back when words played a heavy role in spellcasting. To a user of Divine Words, actualization of mysteries is not done through a process, but more through a direct order. A power long lost by modern magi.
Due to her use of Divine Words, Caster’s spells do not work the same way that of those of modern Magecraft. For one, she can cast even High Thaumaturgy-level spells with the speed equivalent of Single-Action ones. Furthermore, while the majority of her spells fall under the One-Line category, their power-level is easily in par with Five-Line ones. Finally, due to the different dynamics, only a Servant with Magic Resistance ranked A or above is immune to her spells.

Single Action: you just activate it. One Line: one word, minimum. If you check her page on the wiki, it lists most of her spells (including an army of skeletal soldiers and a laser bombing run--so yes, she does use both minions and danmaku, Rin getting in close was hardly expected).

EDIT: Ah, here it is:

Her main offensive spell is Rain of Light (光弾雨, Koudanu?), which is a volley of rapidly fired beams of light each with an A rank power of attack. Each beam is a deadly spell on the level of High Thaumaturgy with three times Shirou's entire amount of prana, capable of destroying the body of a Servant with a direct hit. Just the use of one single beam would normally require a magic circle, ten count aria, and one minute of casting for a normal magus, and still thirty seconds with a High-Speed Aria. Caster's Divine Words allow her to shoot them in rapid succession without any preparation after simply targeting the enemy with her wand. She can fire them without pause when she has a supply of stored prana, and the result is something that resembles a bombing raid that leaves the ground scorching red.

(click to show/hide)

Servant Magic Resistance is the main reason she isn't as dangerous as all this suggests.

On the other hand the non-servant mages still around on Fate/Stay Night are all minor level. It's stated in the game that Caster being able to use teleport is OMGHAXXOR compared to most "modern" magic. Heck, a pegasus (CR 3) is considered a mighty magical beast that would've demanded multiple "modern" casters to summon!

So basically non servant mages are all cheesing the hell out of sanctuary spell and combined magic and whatnot to be able to churn out some medium-high level spells out. Servant Caster however is around mid-high levels and can actually cast high level spells whitout need of cheese, meaning she bring the cheese in the form of free quicken spells and celerity and whatnot.

[Prime32]

On the other hand the non-servant mages still around on Fate/Stay Night are all minor level. It's stated in the game that Caster being able to use teleport is OMGHAXXOR compared to most "modern" magic. Heck, a pegasus (CR 3) is considered a mighty magical beast that would've demanded multiple "modern" casters to summon!

Rider's Pegasus is not the same thing as a D&D Pegasus. Standard Pegasi might be around the same level, but Rider's is an incredibly ancient specimen (compared to dragons in power), and is considered an Outsider-equivalent rather than a Magical-Beast-equivalent.

[Raineh Daze]

No! Magecraft obeys some rules. True Magic is that which doesn't obey those rules at all. The Third Magic is manifesting a soul, the Second Magic is the ability to travel between worlds (and got used to kill the moon). Only one family ever had it, and they lost the full measure of it. The Holy Grail War is their attempt to get the damn thing back--by using what's left to take seven forces of nature into comparatively fragile containers, and when said containers are broken, hold the Heroic Spirits for a little bit to power the Great Grail, which can and will do pretty much anything (well, until they corrupted it).


So, whilst there are Command Seals, they only work because they're built into the class system--as in, they're part of the fragile containers. The only reason people have enough power to use them is that they draw on the Servants' own magic--no human magus is of sufficient power to command a Servant.


Umm... that's why the Reality Marble collapsed, yes. But look what it was doing to the ground. Or if you want the poetic description of Ea at full power:

Preforming the miracle of genesis, the attack opens an abyss capable of crushing all of creation, and the center of the storm is not calm, but rather a hole to hell itself that returns all that enters its realm to the nothingness from which it originated. The wind pressure creates a vacuum that takes all things with form, the land, the atmosphere, and the sky into the whirling void. The tumult of genesis takes everything that was nothing more than chaos which could not form any meaning, and creates a new truth that divides and distinguishes Heaven, Sea, and Earth. Within the darkness where everything is returned to nothingness, only Ea is left to shine with brilliance like a star of creation amidst the destruction, the first thing illuminating the new world. The ability takes the entire world within the Reality Marble Ionioi Hetairoi, and cracks, shatters, and collapses it into the abyss like the ending of an hourglass. The entire world would have been completely destroyed had it not collapsed on its own due to a lack of energy.

Rider's Pegasus is probably the same one that sprang from her neck. As in, it's probably thousands of years old. It's also nigh invulnerable (Excalibur can blow it up, but that's hardly surprising. Specifically, it's a Phantasmal Beast so old that its existence is basically True Magic--by nature, it's every bit as reality-breaking as summoning Servants.


So... what sort of level range do you think we're looking at when not interpreting Servants as D&D characters proper? Doesn't need to be precise, just a rough equivalent.


EDIT: Thinking about it, the whole Holy Grail War is like a giant trick on reality. To work, it needs 7 Heroic Spirits in their raw form. It can't gain the power to summon them directly, but it can prepare vessels that they can be summoned into, but weakened. It then catches them on the way out to get at the full power.


And the guy behind the actual class system and seals is also one of the most disgustingly evil men in all fiction by the time of the Fourth War. @_@

[oslecamo]

Second Magic's Traveling Around Worlds-Plane Shift.

Gilgamesh "Turns Out I don't have enough energy to destroy the world after all, just crack it"-earthquake.

Caster can summon minor undead, shoot some nukes and greater teleport.

Nobody seems to have reliable long-term flight.

It's pretty clear they're around levels 13-15, pretty higher than "mortal" lv 5.

[Raineh Daze]

Second Magic is also infinite magical power and time travel, by the way, and the aforementioned three simultaneous slashes is creeping into it. There's more, but this is about Servants and not Zelretch.

(click to show/hide)

Basically, the Second Magic is anything dealing with other dimensions. The thing is, it's much more than Plane Shift--it's literally operation of parallel universes and as such tends to lead to odd things. It can drain power from these worlds (which lead to a magical laser that pushed back the moon/killed it--Marisa would be proud), has some unknown degree of influence over time travel (see: weird treasure chest), and has resulted in a wand that gives you the abilities of an AU version of yourself.


That's only what we know about without anything having ever focused on him.


Calling it Plane Shift doesn't work.

Ea is defined as anti-world, so yes, it can destroy the world (anti-unit weapons only hurt one person, anti-army weapons have area of effect stuff, anti-fortress is Excalibur there). I'm not sure why you think the world crumbling away into nothing and the sky being torn apart is an earthquake, though, but if you want to see what else can happen when it fires, then here, have the absolutely full description of what it does:

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Unlike most other Noble Phantasms, the ability of the sword has its own unique name instead of simply chanting "Ea" to use its function as a Noble Phantasm. The attack, Enuma Elish: The Star of Creation that Split Heaven and Earth ( 天地乖離す開闢の星エヌマ・エリシュ , Tenchi Kairisu Kaibyaku no Hoshi?), signifies the state under which it releases maximum output. Upon activation, the triblade segments of Ea gradually begin to rotate faster with each revolution, acting in concert with the movement of the Heavens. As they begin rotating rapidly, each creaking with weight and power equivalent to tectonic movement, they create a shrilling howl once Gilgamesh commands it to "wake up." Whereas Excalibur releases air outward like a whirlwind, Ea begins to swallow, compress, and accelerate wind pressure into a storm of wind and light on the same magnitude as Excalibur. The generated wind pressure strata simulates spatial rends to create an artificial space-time dislocation that acts as a crushing torrent capable of pulverizing any opposition. The actual output of the attack equals or slightly surpasses than that of Excalibur, but the swirl of air behind it and the enormous amount of seething and overflowing prana within it are on an entirely different level beyond measurement.
While he doesn't exhibit the ability during Fate/stay night due to holding back, he displays the true nature of the weapon by truly going all out during hollow ataraxia and Fate/Zero. Showing its power as an "anti-world" weapon, it attacks everything in sight with a single strike. It cannot be said that what the blade cuts down is limited simply to "the enemy", as it is not matter of aiming it, and it is impossible to even discuss as to whether it will hit its target or the practicality of the force behind it. Grinding at the laws of space with its power, it creates a rip in space that extends from not only the earth, but also to the sky and atmosphere. It is a crack that distorts space to pierce the very nature of the World itself to show the "Truth." All that used the cut space as a foundation is swallowed and crushed by the void, and the dazzling light only continues to grow as it continues to complete the destruction. Its use in a fight is not something that can be called a battle, but rather the wrath of nature itself.

Preforming the miracle of genesis, the attack opens an abyss capable of crushing all of creation, and the center of the storm is not calm, but rather a hole to hell itself that returns all that enters its realm to the nothingness from which it originated. The wind pressure creates a vacuum that takes all things with form, the land, the atmosphere, and the sky into the whirling void. The tumult of genesis takes everything that was nothing more than chaos which could not form any meaning, and creates a new truth that divides and distinguishes Heaven, Sea, and Earth. Within the darkness where everything is returned to nothingness, only Ea is left to shine with brilliance like a star of creation amidst the destruction, the first thing illuminating the new world. The ability takes the entire world within the Reality Marble Ionioi Hetairoi, and cracks, shatters, and collapses it into the abyss like the ending of an hourglass. The entire world would have been completely destroyed had it not collapsed on its own due to a lack of energy.

Caster can also fly, has magical protection, can pin people down with air pressure, drain an entire town for energy, create stuff that grants limited immortality (no, I don't know what that is--I do know she managed to make Assassin into one of the best drivers ever in Carnival Phantasm and make Kuzuki win absolutely every possible prize and reward with a luck charm in the same. Despite its ludicrousness, it tends to keep power levels about right... except for Boomelancer), set up a defensive area that weakens everyone else's magic, and buff a normal (well, he could only do martial arts) man to the point he can take on Servants. Oh, and pervert the Grail War to summon a wraith as a Servant.

Caster has long term flight. Gilgamesh has (had, depends on which thing you're looking at) a physics-defying spaceship and probably has other stuff, Rider has pegasus there...


I... think you're understating things.


And this isn't even getting into the exact relationship between Servant parameters and human capability (basically? E-rank is around ten times better than mortal ability. It only gets worse from there).

[Psyga315]

If you were to ask me personally... I guess somewhere in the Epic Tier, due to them being ascended to the Throne of Heroes, much like how certain Epic Destinies play out.

[oslecamo]

I... think you're understating things.


And this isn't even getting into the exact relationship between Servant parameters and human capability (basically? E-rank is around ten times better than mortal ability. It only gets worse from there).

I believe you're the one understating D&D. There's a saying in the CO boards that if you can't pull something with wizard 10, you're just not trying hard enough. You keep saying " X times than any mortal could ever be except nothing has enough power to fuel them", but we've already seen it- with the dark grail fueling them. Dark Saber status says she's more powerful than she's ever been in her entire existence. She's still beaten 1x1 by a brain-dead high-schooler that picked some magic tricks and a graft (yes, he beats her solo in a route option. It leaves him comatose but it's still his win. If shirou bring Rider to help, then Shirou also beats "I crushed Gilgamesh as an aftertought" Sakura and "I don't die when I'm killed" knife Monk and then still had energy for pulling out an Excalibur).

At the end of the day the servants are still twarthed around by simple high schoolers and mage aprentices. You call them "forces of nature", but  even Alexander, king of conquerors, admits he only managed to take over a minuscle portion of the world before biting it. Arturina was defeated by barbarians bands. Even Gilgamesh sees his entire treasury rendered useless when faced with faery trinkets, not to mention geting his ass pulverized by a mortal girl-Sakura. I don't care if she was channeling the dark grail. It was still simple mortal magic that empowered her like that, even if the power was being stolen from somewhere else. Possession is 9/10 of the law and stuff.

Meanwhile all you describe Caster as doing can be pulled by a wizard. Most of them at level 10 tops actually. She isn't stoping time. She isn't seting fully fledged teleportation circles. She isn't summoning elemental swarms. She can't pull an Astral projection, thus forcing her to risk her neck personally. She isn't calling down proper meteors. She has nothing that comes close to actual D&D 9th level magic.

I'm not saying they're weak. They're all pretty damn strong. But high level 3.X D&D is just crazy strong.

[ImperatorK]

Dark Saber status says she's more powerful than she's ever been in her entire existence. She's still beaten 1x1 by a brain-dead high-schooler that picked some magic tricks and a graft (yes, he beats her solo in a route option. It leaves him comatose but it's still his win. If shirou bring Rider to help, then Shirou also beats "I crushed Gilgamesh as an aftertought" Sakura and "I don't die when I'm killed" knife Monk and then still had energy for pulling out an Excalibur).

The seemingly weaker protagonist wins his fights with the power of Plot(TM).

Meanwhile all you describe Caster as doing can be pulled by a wizard. Most of them at level 10 tops actually. She isn't stoping time. She isn't seting fully fledged teleportation circles. She isn't summoning elemental swarms. She can't pull an Astral projection, thus forcing her to risk her neck personally. She isn't calling down proper meteors. She has nothing that comes close to actual D&D 9th level magic.

I'm not very D&D or Fate savvy, but from what I remember seeing/reading, Caster looks more like a Warlock than a Wizard. She can't pull off as powerful spells as Wizards (well, maybe as rituals), but she can spam them, IIRC.

[Raineh Daze]

Hmm, so... because I don't think I specified abilities (and goal well enough), let's try this again. The aim is just to see what around what level Servants' abilities are, not their performance. Their performance fluctuates wildly regardless of who they are. So, from the top, going from the wiki and complete material:

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Saber, Lancer, Rider, and Archer are all at least good in melee (it helps if Rider stops keeping herself blind). Fake Assassin is skilled enough to fight Servants despite a power gap. True Assassin couldn't fight the others, Caster shouldn't be in melee at all without buffing, and even then she's at a huge disadvantage. Berserker... well, if he wasn't mad the whole time, he'd be far more dangerous, but physically less powerful. Finally, Gilgamesh's melee skill is practically non-existent, at least with swords. He's better than Caster or True Assassin due to raw physical skill, and smart enough to not get in such fights with the others unless he's got a huge advantage... if he does this seriously.

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Supposedly, the lowest Servant ability is ten times the normal human maximum and progresses linearly. This doesn't seem strictly accurate (the gap between anyone and Lancer would be ridiculous with his speed) but it does seem to give a sort of vague ballpark. Normal jetfighters are apparently meaningless against a Noble Phantasm spaceship, bullets either can't hurt them or get dodged (under normal situations--/Zero Berserker is a strange exception), the scenery gets wrecked as mere backdrafts.

Fate/Stay Night doesn't really show Servants at their best next to maguses, because Shirou is really damn weird and Heaven's Feel is more about the humans. Going from Fate/Zero, it's safe to say that someone almost completely normal wouldn't be able to see the stuff fired from Gate of Babylon, let alone react.


Anyway, the supposed relationship to normal human abilities, with only those that come up:

		+	++
E	10
D	20
C	30
B	40
A	50	100	150

Strength: Strength. Is what it says. Lifting, hitting, crushing children's skulls without looking at them... yeah, that sort of thing.
Agility: Speed of movement as much as manual dexterity or anything. Also speed of attack.
Endurance: It's basically constitution, yup.
Mana: Maximum power they can have. Higher power = can use more draining abilities more, fight for longer, and take more damage (Endurance seems like it reduces it, because the actual measure of health for most of them, being magical constructs, is how much of this is left). Only blows to the head or heart actually stand any chance of doing massive damage.
Luck: How lucky they are. Lancer has E-Rank Luck and is constantly screwed over, Gilgamesh has A and everything falls into his lap. Also links to surviving Gae Bolg.
Noble Phantasm: Trump card strength. The direct rank is important for some things.

Now that's the generalities out of the way, specific Servants, starting with the 5th Grail War and then tacking Zero Berserker and Rider on at the end.

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Using her best (read: only ones that accurately reflect her living capabilities) stats:
Strength: A
Agility: B
Endurance: B
Mana: A
Luck: A+
NP: A++.

Skills:
Magic Resistance, A-ranked. Completely nullifies any and all attempts to use magecraft on Saber. Raw magical power works--that's Angra Mainyu's whole thing--but spells fail. Dragon-slaying abilities might work, but otherwise magic will just not work. Even command seals, which are powered by the Servant themselves, don't work on their own if she doesn't want them to (Kiritsugu had to use two to get her to do one action. A simple task is meant to be impossible to resist)
Riding, B-Ranked: enough to... ride any non-mythical creature, along with any vehicle. Which once lead to a race between a motorcycle and a lightning chariot.
Instinct at A-rank is enough to predict trajectories of things and therefore completely avoid them. It also somewhat negates visual and auditory interference, by basically predicting the future.
Charisma, B-Ranked, is sufficient for a king. Not too interesting.
Prana Burst is the sole reason why Saber, despite not having died and for all intents and purposes still being mortal, is capable of fighting Servants. She has such insane mana production when properly supplied that she can power herself to the levels seen above (specifically, she's really kinda fragile). Any non-mythical item can be broken in one blow with this ability.


Noble Phantasms:
-- Excalibur, A++, Anti-Fortress. Basically giant blast of magical light. Can destroy eldritch abominations. Do not stand in the way, because there seem to be two things it won't destroy. Ea's attack and anyone using Avalon.
-- Invisible Air, C, Anti-Unit. Covers Excalibur in wind that messes with light, which makes it hit slightly harder and completely invisible. Can be released for a speed boost by using it as a jet engine, or fired at people, or to speed up a motorbike beyond its own limits.
-- Avalon, EX. When activated, complete invulnerability, heal from anything, don't age. The only way to defeat her is to steal this.

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Using his Fourth Grail War stats, because the fifth removes some of his more fun toys.
Strength: B
Agility: B
Endurance: B
Mana: A
Luck: A
Noble Phantasm: EX.

Skills:
Independent Action: A. Basically, he's not particularly tied to his Master, just needing him for huge power expenditure (and in the sequel, this becomes A+--he needs no Master, just power to use stuff).
Magic Resistance: C. Seems to be that epic spells would work. However, it's stated that his armour completely nullifies most everything you try to do to him (it was mistaken for a Noble Phantasm at first. Might still be, given his treasury), and his response to spellcasting would be to bury you in swords. Oh, and he knows a lot about magecraft for some reason.
Charisma: A+. No more mere popularity, it's more a sort of bizarre curse. If he chose to lead an army, they'd gain a huge boost in abilities.
Golden Rule: A. Attracts money and wealth because he once owned everything. Despite being non-combat, it explains why he has so many Noble Phantasms. This would probably mean that leaving him in a D&D world for any length of time would lead to adventurers wondering where the hell all the best stuff had gone.
Divinity: B(A+). The most godly of all Heroic Spirits, the gods managed to piss him off so much by killing his friend that his divine rank went down. There seems to be a correlation between divine ranking and gamebreaker abilities (Saber up there is tied to dragons instead).


Noble Phantasms:
-- Ea, EX, Anti-World. Can be fired as a blast that overwhelms Excalibur, a horrible vortex of wind that shreds an entire army of shadowy things, or as something that destroys the planet by breaking physics. Oh, and it shows you the world before it was made in doing so ('destroying the planet' seems to consist of making it crumble into nothingness). Oddly, given the full descriptions, it seems to be indicated that it'd put the planet back together, sans everything that was on it, if it was kept up.
-- Enkidu, Chains of Heaven, Anti-Unit. Chains that get stronger the more divine you are. Has the nasty side effect of blocking anything that might allow you to escape other than breaking them. Using his other Noble Phantasm, he can shoot it from behind you and to the sides and generally make it kind of hard to escape.
-- Gate of Babylon, E-A++. Lets him shoot weapons at people. Also contains wine. More seriously, it lets him pull things out of his treasury--which is the originals of the overwhelming majority of Noble Phantasms. If he's fighting seriously, he has an item for pretty much every occasion, and in a contest of power with the Noble Phantasms wielded by the people who made them famous, his are stronger. Some other fun things it includes are a flying, reality-breaking ancient spaceship, a sword/scythe thing that messes with immortality in bizarre ways, a sword that can cut the tops off of hills, and the thing that predates Caliburn and Gram (basically, Excalibur, but without the ranged component).


Also canonically capable of winning the Fourth Grail War in one night if he wanted to.


His ego is beyond compare. Despite this, his likes and dislikes are... odd:
Likes: Himself, power
Dislikes: Himself, snakes

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Strength: B
Agility: C
Endurance: C
Mana: B
Luck: E
NP: ?


Skills:
Magic Resistance: D. Not intimidating at all. Can be overcome if you're sufficiently powerfu[size=78%]l.[/size]
Independent Action: B. Two day survival. Can hang around for a while after he's killed.
Clairvoyance: C. Lets him survey a whole town from one high vantage point, and accurately snipe a high-speed target up to four kilometres away.
Thaumaturgy: C-. Below-average magus. It's important for his other abilities, though.
Eye of the Mind (True): B. Basically? Through analysis of the opponent, it's possible to fight exceptionally well despite a disadvantage in raw skill and  power. This is how he was able to fight Lancer.


Unlimited Blade Works: Allows Archer to near-flawlessly reproduce any weapon he's seen once, complete with their history (which lets him use it as if he was the original wielder). Because he can just replicate them if broken, he can make the created weapons explode, to make up for their being flawed reproductions. It also contains a perfect defence against projectile weapons. It also contains a sword twisted so that it simply distorts space horribly as fired (rather than cutting off hilltops) and therefore rips Medea's defences apart from a considerable distance.


Alternatively, he can drag you into a world where he can create swords immediately and shoot them at you. As Shirou shows, it's the natural counter to Gilgamesh.


He states that copying Excalibur would kill him.

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Strength: B
Agility: A
Endurance: C
Mana: C
Luck: E
NP: B

Skills:
Magic Resistance: C.
Battle Continuation: A. Will never give up in a fight, ever. Even if he's bleeding to death and can't stand, he'll just tie himself to a rock and keep fighting. Until he's completely and utterly dead, Lancer just won't quit.
Divinity: B. He has a lot of skills.
Disengage: C. Can run away. Basically, the battle is reset to square one, with conditions back to their starting points. Not sure if this heals anyone involved (that seems unlikely) but it probably negates any advantages the enemy has.
Rune Magic: B. Can... use runes. The only time this seems to get mentioned is that he could power up Gae Bolg so it could hurt Berserker.
Protection from Arrows: B.If the shooter is within line-of-sight, he can track the arrows down and defend against them. Doesn't work against sniping or area-of-affect stuff.


Noble Phantasm:
-- Gae Bolg, B, Anti-Unit. Stabs you in the heart. Very efficient. Only way to defend against it is extreme luck or to not be in range, since it gets cause and effect backwards. You're stabbed in the heart, therefore the technique takes place so you're stabbed in the heart, even if the spear has to bend in impossible ways. Oh, and it fills your body with iron barbs as well. Takes ages to heal even if you do survive.
-- Gae Bolg, B+, Anti-Army. A sort of carpet-bombing thing when Lancer launches the spear. Moves at Mach 2, so dodging or blocking it under normal conditions simply doesn't work. His maximum range ever used is apparently 40km, though Shirou thinks it might be able to hit the other side of the world.


Not mentioned: if there's a way for Lancer to die horribly in something, he will.

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Using her better stats:
Strength: B
Agility: A
Endurance: D
Mana: B
Luck: E
NP: A+

Skills:
Magic Resistance: B. It seems that, basically, the only magic that could hurt her would be about the same sort of stuff as epic spells.
Riding: A+. Anything but a dragon.
Divinity: E-. She's strictly speaking a divine spirit, but becoming a huge monster kind of ruined that.
Independent Action: C. I have no idea why, it's an Archer skill.
Monstrous Strength: B. She can boost her strength at the risk of turning into a colossal monster if overused.
Mystic Eyes: A+. Cybele is... dangerous. She doesn't even have to be seen by you, just have you in her field of vision. C or lower Mana means instant petrification, B means you're frozen if you get too close. A ranked or above just leads you to be slowed and weakened in all areas. Repeated exposure delays the effects somewhat because you can respond. They're more on the level of NP's than mere skill.

Noble Phantasms
-- Bellerophon, A+, Anti-Army. A bridle and saddle for Pegasus. This is no ordinary pegasus, though--without boosting its capabilities in any way, it's as immune to magic as Saber herself is, if not more, and incredibly hard to kill. With this on, it gets stronger, faster, and tougher--and it can use a charge attack that boosts its defence dramatically and allows it to move about 400-500kph. Overwhelmed by Excalibur, but capable of overpowering it if paired with Rho Aias.
-- Blood Fort Andromeda, B, Anti-Army. If you have enough power, once this is set up, then it can't harm you. On the other hand, if you don't, you'll find yourself dissolving into goop to give Rider more magical power. If you're inside, you can't get out; if you're outside, you can't get in. Takes ten days to gather the necessary power for full activation, though. If deactivated before you're dead, physical scars remain.
-- Breaker Gorgon, C-. Anti-Unit. Normally used to stop Cybele from freezing everyone, though that blinds Rider, it has the ability to create an area where no abilities that would affect the external environment work, and puts you inside Rider's mind, which leads to illusions. All magical abilities used inside it would fail.


Oddly, despite being Medusa, her alignment is Chaotic Good.

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For reference, he's not even a proper Servant. He's playing the part of a person that doesn't exist.
Strength: C
Agility: A+
Endurance: E
Mana: E
Luck: A
NP: ?

Skills:
Presence Concealment: D. He'd be good for spying.
Eye of the Mind (False): A. A sort of premonition or sixth sense, he managed to work out Excalibur's length through Invisible Air after only a few blows. A natural talent to sense danger.
Knowledge of Respect and Harmony: B. No matter how many times you fight him, you can't learn his technique or how to predict it. Battle is always as if you've never fought him before.
Vitrification: B-. Perfectly calm at all times, even when about to die horribly. Mind-affecting stuff doesn't work.


Noble Phantasm:
-- Tsubame Gaeshi, Anti-Unit. Three simultaneous strikes made by breaking reality through muscle power and practice, taking no more mana than movement. Impossible to dodge or block due to how it's arranged; dealing with one or two will leave the other to hit. However, his sword isn't invincible, and if damaged there's a single flaw in it.

Note: in terms of pure swordsmanship, this man who broke reality through following an idle thought on how to cut a swallow in flight is the best in the Fifth Grail War. The downside is that he has no ranged capabilities or defences at all, just his sword and speed.

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AKA, He Who Nobody Cares About.
Strength: B
Agility: A
Endurance: C
Mana: C
Luck: E
NP: C

Skills:
Presence Concealment: A+. Impossible to detect until he gets ready to attack.
Projectile (Daggers): B. Thrown daggers are basically bullets.
Protection from Wind: A. Only any good against wind attacks. Helped him against Invisible Air.
Self-Modification: C. He fused a demonic arm with his, which leads to...


Noble Phantasm:
Zabaniya (Delusional Heartbeat), C, Anti-Unit. If his arm unwraps, he can make a fake heart and crush it, killing you. Or he can swap the two by touching your chest and eat the real heart to gain your intelligence. Only works on living people (maybe animals), can be resisted by having a high mana stat or extreme luck.

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AKA Heracles. He's really damn tall.
Strength: A+
Agility: A
Endurance: A
Mana: B
Luck: A

Skills:
Mad Enhancement: B. Boost to all stats, detracts from sanity. Majorly. The result of the above stats (though if you summoned him as a class not as inherently low-powered as Berserker, they'd probably be just as bad).
Battle Continuation: A. Can keep fighting for a while... when dead. Strictly speaking, mortal wounds don't kill him on the spot, and injury in general is greatly lessened. Pair this with God Hand and you might see the problem.
Bravery: A+. Nigh immune to mental interference, deals more damage in melee.
Divinity: A. Demigod.
Eye of the Mind (Fake): B. Despite being completely mad, this still functions, and feinting won't fool him. Given his sheer size and power, he's a troublesome opponent that can't be cornered.


Noble Phantasms:
-- God Hand, B, Anti-Unit. Nullifies all attacks of B-rank or lower completely, such that they don't work on him. At all. He must be killed 12 times to actually stay dead (and with a sufficiently powerful Master, like Ilya, these lives regenerate) and no ability works on him twice. In addition, entire classes of abilities become ineffective if used repeatedly--Caster's magecraft would only work a few times, then he'd be immune.
-- Nine Lives. A technique that could be used with any weapon he had on hand if not for his insanity. It consists of nine overlapping, simultaneous strikes. Arrows, swords, axes, spears...

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She can't get a break, really. Summoned into a war with all these immunities and resistances floating around regardless of class appropriateness...
Strength: E
Agility: C
Endurance: D
Mana: A+
Luck: B
NP: C

Skills:
Item Creation: A. Can cheerfully make potions granting limited immortality, along with, apparently, a luck charm that makes you win everything possible whilst going shopping and a safe driving charm that makes you the best driver ever. Oh, and she can turn people into magical items if she likes their abilities.
Territory Creation: A. She can set up an area (in this case, it was Ryudo Temple) that weakens anyone not coming in through the front door, quite dramatically. So she put Assassin there.
High-Speed Divine Words: A. Can cast pretty much any spell in one word, from flying laser bombardment that could OHKO a non-protected Servant to crushing your chest with wind pressure, pinning you down, teleporting, creating a protective shield as tough as Berserker's skin, buffing humans so they can hurt Servants... her abilities are close to True Magic, and considerably more varied.
The skeletal army is pretty much her scattering dragons' teeth on the ground. She can makes as many as she pleases.


Noble Phantasms:
Rule Breaker, C, Anti-Thaumaturgy. Can cancel any magic except Noble Phantasms with this thing. This includes the Servant contract--which is what she mostly uses it for, because she really wants Saber on her team.
Argon Coin, EX. If she knew how to use this, she could summon a dragon and would go from one of the weakest Servants to mid-tier. Nasuverse dragons, at their weakest, appear to be around the level of the oldest D&D ones. They're horrible things.


She's definitively the worst Servant to oppose if you're a mere human, though, due to the sheer number of things she can do to you without opposition.


Has some interesting likes and dislikes listed:


Likes: Men of few words and sincerity, girls in cute clothes
Dislikes: Muscles

Well, that's it for the F/SN Servants.

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Stated by Saber to be the greatest sword-wielding Servant.
Strength: A (A+)
Agility: A+ (A++)
Endurance: A (A+)
Mana: C (B)
Luck: B (A) (A+)
NP: A

Skills:
Mad Enhancement: C. Similar to B, but Luck and Mana aren't boosted.
Eternal Arms Mastership: A+. Skill with a weapon is so good that, no matter his mental state, he will always fight with the full measure of his ability. Given that the full measure of his ability is greater than pretty much everyone else's to have this in the first place...
Magic Resistance: E (D). Weakens magical damage.
Protection of the Fairies: A. Luck goes up a rank in battlefield situations where it's possible to perform feats of arms.


Noble Phantasms:
Knight of Honor, A++, Anti-Unit. Absolutely anything you put into his hands becomes equivalent to a D-rank Noble Phantasm. This includes telephone poles, submachine guns, sniper rifles, jet fighters, and probably cutlery. If it's someone else's Noble Phantasm, then he could use it as if it was his. Additionally, he fights with any of these items like a master that has trained their entire life in wielding them.
For Someone's Glory, B, Anti-Unit. Hides his identity in a black mist. If it wasn't for Mad Enhancement, he could masquerade as other Servants and people, without anyone's being able to tell.
Arondight, A++, Anti-Unit. The sister blade to Excalibur. Ranks up every parameter, doubles the effectiveness of saving throws, and is highly effective at killing dragons. It's also utterly indestructible. To make matters even worse, he's better at wielding this than he is at wielding anything else. Even though he could only use it for an incredibly brief period before running out of power, he was able to easily overwhelm Saber.


Without as weak a Master as Kariya, he would have been considerably more dangerous, as absolutely everything he does is considerably draining. Has the most ridiculous stats of any Servant ever.

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AKA Broskander the Great. XD
Strength: B
Agility: D
Endurance: A
Mana: C
Luck: A+
NP: A++

Skills:
Magic Resistance: D
Riding: A+
Charisma: A. The limit of human popularity.
Divinity: C. Claims to be descended from Zeus.
Military Tactics: B. Bonuses when using Anti-Army NP's or fighting them.


Noble Phantasms:
Via Expugnatio, A+, Anti-Army. A flying chariot with divine bulls pulling it, and if it tramples you you get struck by the lightning bolts beneath it. If activated, they're apparently as strong as Excalibur, though not as long-lasting.
Ionioi Hetairoi, EX, Anti-Army. A Reality Marble, which means getting dragged into another world of endless plains in this case, that allows him to summon his army. The thing about this army? Ever last soldier in it is a Servant, some stronger than he is. They may not be able to use their Noble Phantasms, but they can contribute to sustaining this. Normal Reality Marbles are gained as a result of magical ability. This one exists because of loyalty that transcends time and space.


Possibly the most hamtastic Servant in existence.

@ Os: Fate/Stay Night is not the best showing. The power of the Holy Grail takes, except for some circumstances surrounding how the Fourth Grail War was broken, around sixty years to charge up. Angra Mainyu is a Heroic Spirit, as well, so Sakura isn't using mortal powers. As for beating Gilgamesh like that: Angra Mainyu gave him that body. Said body was the only thing anchoring him to the world. What, exactly, is so surprising that it could take it away?

Shirou, with Archer's arm, isn't fighting as a human. Also, Archer is Shirou in the future, so of all the possible humans to defeat Servants, it's one that got summoned into the war itself.

And, um, finally... Heroic Spirits, in death, are much stronger than they were in life. Also, Saber got defeated by civil war and her own clone. :|


EDIT: Bottom line? Ignore whatever Rin, Shirou, and Sakura did (dark Sakura is, again, basically Heroic Spirit powered, so that's not even giving you the right idea), because the setting makes it clear that they're outmatched. Don't look at history and expect that to accurately reflect things, since at no point in history did we have late medieval armour in ancient Babylon.


If you want to know what Servants fighting properly is, watch or read Fate/Zero.


And please don't start scaling everything against the most highly optimised characters you can think of. Because that doesn't give any sort of accurate picture of the sum totality of all possible D&D characters ever. Plotting against the normal, here, not the extremes. :/


EDIT 2: And if you want to get pedantic about normal humans beating Servants: in Fate, Shirou killed nobody. In UBW, Shirou got a moral victory over Archer, and weakened Gilgamesh to the point Archer could finish him off (If Archer hadn't stepped in, Shirou would've been kind of dead). In Heaven's Feel, Shirou is using Archer's abilities, effectively being a slightly weaker Servant. As for Sakura, when you're powered by all the world's evil and any Servants defeated in any way (coincidentally, Lancer died before Dark Sakura showed up), you are not a mortal mage. At no point did a human not drawing on a Servant's power defeat a Servant. >.>