Author Topic: How to DM for a party without trapfinding?  (Read 6460 times)

Offline Solo

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How to DM for a party without trapfinding?
« on: February 06, 2013, 01:03:35 AM »
I am going to run into a problem very shortly that involves a dungeoncrawl and a party without trapfinding. Any suggestions? I suppose removing the traps and alarms is a thing, but that just feels... cheap.
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Offline Keldar

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Re: How to DM for a party without trapfinding?
« Reply #1 on: February 06, 2013, 01:47:13 AM »
Remove the artificial restriction on Search?  Then at least they have a chance of finding traps.

Still want role protection for any future Rogues?  Make Trapfinding instead allow an automatic Search roll to find traps.  (-5 or -10 if you think that's too much to start with.)  No bogging the game down with Searching every 10 feet.

Alternately introduce them to Log, the Wilderness Rogue.  He rolls down stairs, alone or in pairs!

Offline SneeR

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Re: How to DM for a party without trapfinding?
« Reply #2 on: February 06, 2013, 05:21:02 AM »
+1 for Log the Wilderness Rogue.

Also, consider making them more about tests of intellect and teamwork rather than surprise. More like the traps in Prince of Persia: whirling blades and spikes that pop up through clearly visible grates, intermittent blasts of steam. Let them know what they are up against and have challenges tailored to each character, like the barbarian needs to hold the roof up while the monk runs to the other side and pulls the lever to stop the room from slowly flooding while the fighter blocks the doorway where the weak enemies are trying to flood in from.

"Traps" don't need to mundane daggers from the wall or things you need to constantly worry about checking for!
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Offline linklord231

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Re: How to DM for a party without trapfinding?
« Reply #3 on: February 06, 2013, 05:37:24 AM »
Put only magical traps.  That way they show up with Detect Magic. 
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Offline Kasz

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Re: How to DM for a party without trapfinding?
« Reply #4 on: February 06, 2013, 06:04:42 AM »
Have traps such as arrows in the wall, swinging scythes, crushing walls and the like... the "classics". Give the party a chance to notice them... Anyone can see arrow slits or a gap for a scythe to swing.

If triggered then have it be a Skill Challenge to get through... via Balance checks or climb or tumble or just have them roll reflex. On a fail just be like "you make it through the scythes but are caught by one, slicing your thigh on your way out * appropriate damage*
On a bad roll have it do double damage.. so the DC might be 20, 10-19 = damage, less than 9 = double damage.

Have some traps detectable via detect magic, as mentioned before, then either make them easy to avoid "Walk around the trapped tile" or a jump check or similar "Jump over the trapped tiles" or by using Log the Wildnerness Rogue to trigger so you can pass through after the badness has been wasted (useless on autoresetting traps). For things like a pressure plate the party could leave a heavy rock on the plate, preventing the trap resetting, if you have pressure plates, describe the room as having some damage done to the walls and there's chunks of stone lying around... giving perceptive or attentive players a bonus option.

Also... have sneaky traps... have a door handle of bestow curse... -2 to all stats until you find someone to remove it etc. Have your traps be an actual hindrance... Every party carries around wands of vigor or cure light wounds or have a "healer" which make traps not a big deal when they just deal a bit of damage... just a HP tax... the ones that deal ability point damage or curse will make the following traps / fights harder and your players will feel the toll.

Have traps open combat. "Stepping on the floor triggers poisoned darts to shoot the party... but it also drops ooze from the ceiling. Roll Initiative". If the Darts hit or make them autohit but that raises CR of the trap, save vs poison for something... 1 Con? the party takes a bit of damage from the dart and has a lower con score now... which they will feel, even if it feels minor... have the oozes target the ones who failed save vs poison, when they hit say "The ooze does X damage, you also feel the poison in your veins strengthen 2 Con dmg." If the oozes continue to hit keep adding +1... or if you feel like an evil b*****d then double every time, 1,2,4,8... on each successful hit on the poisoned party member. The poison in this example would be "Initial 1 con, Secondary 1+X con", X being the number of times struck by an ooze in the last 10 rounds. Special - Apply this poison each time a player is struck by an ooze after being poisoned but before the secondary effect 60 seconds later, stacking con damage appropriately."

Consider the above vs "You take 15 damage from the saw blades."
"I use my wand and heal back up to full"
"We wander into the next room"

After a clever use of traps the party will feel challenged by them or smug that they bypassed them without a rogue. Either is a good outcome. Also... next time they go into a dungeon they might hire a rogue in town knowing that you're not going to dilute challenges just because they failed to bring a trapfinder ;)

Offline ImperatorK

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Re: How to DM for a party without trapfinding?
« Reply #5 on: February 06, 2013, 07:09:28 AM »
Add a Rogue to the party.
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Offline zioth

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Re: How to DM for a party without trapfinding?
« Reply #6 on: February 06, 2013, 10:34:59 AM »
A lot of this advice is good for any campaign, with or without a rogue. Having to figure out a trap as a party is much more interesting than, "Roll your search check... Now roll disable device... You win the encounter."

If you don't have time to figure out clever traps, there are other options. The party can figure out ways to avoid traps -- walk around with a long stick, poking anything that seems suspicious. Traps can also be triggered by thrown rocks, summonned monsters, or PCs with a lot of hit points. Another option is not to have traps. Yes, traps are standard in D&D dungeon crawls, but they're not required. Not every dungeon, cave and tomb is trapped. It's only trapped if someone is in there doing the trapping. Kobolds love traps, but what if the dungeon is full of ogres, who depend on brute strength rather than tricks? What if the dungeon's inhabitants aren't smart enough to make effective traps? Animals, vermin, many magical beasts, mindless undead and constructs all fall into this category. What if the inhabitants raise animals as pets, and don't want traps lying around that could kill those pets? There are lots of non-"cheap" reasons not to have traps.

Offline Unbeliever

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Re: How to DM for a party without trapfinding?
« Reply #7 on: February 06, 2013, 10:45:35 AM »
+1 to most of the above.  In addition, I'd suggest using them as an excuse to introduce funky terrains into the combat. 

You can, for instance, have a pit trap with spikes that was already triggered years ago in the dungeon -- there are skeletons mouldering in the bottom of it and so on -- and then have an encounter in that room, introducing some funky terrain. 

Offline phaedrusxy

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Re: How to DM for a party without trapfinding?
« Reply #8 on: February 06, 2013, 11:17:39 AM »
Grey Bags of Tricks are cheap I hear... So are mules.  :smirk
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Offline Solo

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Re: How to DM for a party without trapfinding?
« Reply #9 on: February 06, 2013, 11:36:53 AM »
So what I'm hearing is that I should go Tomb Raider on them.
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Offline Amechra

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Re: How to DM for a party without trapfinding?
« Reply #10 on: February 06, 2013, 11:57:17 AM »
Do what I'm going to let our trapfinder do; let them boat-surf.

(One of my players is playing an Ardent who took Summon Item (or whatever the actual name of that power is); I've ruled that if he's running, he can imbue the summoned object with his momentum. He can summon boats. Crunch.)

If you want to be less nice, cover every 5ft square with traps.

There, now they don't need to find the traps, they just need to survive them.

That is awful advice and if you were even considering it non-jokingly, beat yourself with a rolled up newspaper.
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Offline Cyclone Joker

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Re: How to DM for a party without trapfinding?
« Reply #11 on: February 06, 2013, 04:30:02 PM »
Weights, shuffleboards, magnets, and marbles. Traps are lulz.

But, seriously, rogues are even more lulz. Just have someone with decent saves run on ahead, let him trigger all the traps, and heal him as needed.

Offline linklord231

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Re: How to DM for a party without trapfinding?
« Reply #12 on: February 06, 2013, 04:39:56 PM »
But, seriously, rogues are even more lulz. Just have someone with decent saves run on ahead, let him trigger all the traps, and heal him as needed.

A legitimate use for Monk 20. 
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Offline veekie

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Re: How to DM for a party without trapfinding?
« Reply #13 on: February 06, 2013, 09:27:32 PM »
So what I'm hearing is that I should go Tomb Raider on them.
Pretty much that, though try to make sure they have the ability to deal with SOME of the challenges. Jumping from swinging logs isn't exactly viable for many characters, it just adds a lot of frustration.
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Offline GenghisDon

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Re: How to DM for a party without trapfinding?
« Reply #14 on: February 06, 2013, 09:48:34 PM »
Let them suffer from the traps as they ought. Presumably the group will have greater HP resources & possibly spells/items to counter the losses. It's less efficient then having a trapfinder, but it's a minor thing, really.

Offline PlzBreakMyCampaign

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Re: How to DM for a party without trapfinding?
« Reply #15 on: February 16, 2013, 01:39:30 PM »
Let them suffer from the traps as they ought. Presumably the group will have greater HP resources & possibly spells/items to counter the losses. It's less efficient then having a trapfinder, but it's a minor thing, really.
+1

Then give them access to a fidgety NPC rogue as mentioned above. "You want to take me where??" Hillarity ensues

Offline Nunkuruji

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Re: How to DM for a party without trapfinding?
« Reply #16 on: February 18, 2013, 10:56:49 PM »
Search can find mundane traps
Detect Magic will turn up magic traps that haven't had Magic Aura added to it.

Not sure if there's a newer version of this
http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=4858

Any of course the ever popular trapmonkey/reserve summon feat/binder summon/zombie/etc

Offline JohnnyMayHymn

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Re: How to DM for a party without trapfinding?
« Reply #17 on: February 18, 2013, 11:28:08 PM »
make them pay for it, see if you can get them to retreat from a seemingly easy encounter with some kobolds or something, then suggest they try and hire a rogue, of course you don't let them find one easily  :plotting, when they finally find the fidgety NPC rogue as mentioned before, I would see if I could make them kidnap the poor guy as he has 'retired' and doesn't want to go with the party.  this becomes a balancing act of constantly making sure the rogue doesn't escape; but, if they get too evil with their treatment of the NPC, well that's cause for an alignment shift  :devil

but... if they somehow find ways around the 'normal' traps you had in place and don't need the NPC, then the problem works itself out.

also +1 at creative terrain and only putting traps where they make sense, I've used random tables excessively in the past and sometimes traps just kill the immersion if there was no good reason for it to be there.
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Offline GenghisDon

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Re: How to DM for a party without trapfinding?
« Reply #18 on: February 20, 2013, 12:04:45 AM »
Agreed. Traps that are just there to make a trapfinder feel useful are annoying as hell. Of course, I'm not afraid of making really nasty/lethal traps where they ARE warranted though.

Offline RogerWilco

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Re: How to DM for a party without trapfinding?
« Reply #19 on: March 02, 2013, 01:23:55 PM »
In general I don't really like how traps work.
- You have to have your trapfinder roll for it. Might make the player who made a Rogue feel useful, but it's just mechanical, no story or roleplaying.
- You have the party figure out the trap. There is no reason to bring a trapfinder in this scenario.
- You play a game of "guess what the DM wants to hear". Usually what's obvious to the DM isn't to the players, again slowing things down.
- Unless directly coupled with an encounter, it's just a drain on resources and slows the story down.

There are good traps, but just having one randomly in a tunnel, just to make the Rogue feel useful, isn't my kind of thing. They do make sense in something like a sealed tomb.

So my question would be, do you really need traps in your story? Do they make sense?