Sorcerer Prestige/Optimization

[Biohazardia]

Hi everyone!

This is my first time making a mage class, and while I've looked around at different sorcerer builds/prestige classes/spells/you name it for hours, I'm still a bit unsure as what to do. So, I'm hoping I can get some advice specific to my situation.

In a couple weeks I'm going to be playing in a campaign at ECL 10, with a free +1 LA, and I'm planning to be the mage of the party. The theme of the campaign is "Occult Killers" so we're expecting to fight a lot of outsider demons, undead, incorporeal beings, constructs, stuff like that, most likely with increased CR. (Actually, almost definitely with increased CR). (This also means I'm going to have to worry about enemy spell resistance).

Everyone is going to be very optimized - we've got a fully spec'd dragonfire bard (adding at least at least 4d6 per melee hit per person), a goliath duskblade, a warblade/hellreaver, a ranger skirmisher, and a doppelganger warshaper. As the mage, and thus the party's "hole in one", I'm going to be expected to do at least 15-20d6 damage at least three times per day (preferably more than that), so I need to figure out a build that is up to speed with that. :I So...in other words, pretty cheesy, barring nanite armies, Pun-Puns, etc.

I've looked into the Incantatrix, but they seem to be better for Wizards than Sorcerers because of the whole spellcraft check based on Int bit. Also, one of the threads I've read seems to have erratated/nerfed one of the better parts about Incantatrix: http://www.myth-weavers.com/showthread.php?t=101089 (But maybe I am underestimating/misreading it and the Incantatrix? Since I have literally never dove into a mage class before, I don't know much of the mage lingo unfortunately or how the Incantatrix is put together, aside from persisted buffs and somehow) using metamagic to drive caster levels up to like 25 at level 8 for spells (which, after that errata, is that even allowed?)

 I wouldn't mind playing a Wizard, if I can find a race that will give me at least 22 Int and at least 26 Dex. Right now I'm playing as a Nixie (MM1, +3 LA, Small size, 10+Caster Level SR, -5/Cold Iron DR, -4 Str, +6 Dex, +2 Int, +2 Wis, +8 Cha) with base stats 12, 17, 14, 12, 12, 8, 17 before leveling. (Dex is really important IMO, since I need to be on-par with the AC of the rest of my party, which hovers around 26-32 without spell buffs). I would be playing Pixie, but someone already is one and we aren't allowed to have two of the same race in the party. I've asked my DM about the Petal fey race (MM3, -8 Str, +10 Dex, +4 Con, +4 Int, +8 Cha with 60ft good fly speed, DR -5 Cold Iron) but he is not using the +2 LA for the cohort option listed in MM3, so I suspect the LA will be around +4...not sure if that is better than Nixie or not.

Restrictions are: All WotC published rulebooks and official errata (newest published overrules older), 3.5 and non-updated 3.0 Dragon Magazines. No custom items allowed. Everything will be very rules based, so anything for fluff will be almost useless.

So...how can I do this? XD Should I just Wizard -> Incantatrix? Is there any other sorcerer prestige or build out there that can do enough damage/buff/debuff/control? (I'm sure there is, because I've seen my DM (when he was a player) do like 10d6+ at ECL 6 as a Wu Jen, which is inferior to a sorcerer/wizard >_<)

[SorO_Lost]

Sorcerer based Incantatrix is absolutely fine and don't listen to anyone who says otherwise. Yes a Wizard may naturally obtain a +12 bonus from his Int, but you won't exactly be dumping it will you? In fact, in your quest to optimized your Charisma you'll have plenty of chances to crank your Int score up as well.

I had a Sorcerer build I posted on here, it's the last one I built and it actually avoided PAO/Shapechange abuse on purpose. But it's spell DCs were over 50 and it could Extend Persist a dozen spells, you can tweak it as needed once I find it.

Edit - Found it.

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Race: Necropoliton Dragonborn(heart) Primordial Half-Giant
Class: Sorcerer 6 / Prestige Bard 1 / Incantatrix 10 / Mindbender 1 / Anything 2
Feats: Aggressive^Trait, Snowcast^F, Frozen Magic^F, Cold Spell Specialization^1st, Draconic Aura(energy-cold)^3rd, Reserves of Strength^6th, Extend Spell^{Incan 1}, Mindsight^9th, Twin Spell^{Incan 4}, Practical Metamagic(twin spell)^12th, Persist Spell^{Incan 7}, Brand Of The Nine Hells(asmodeus)^15th, Mark of Nessus^18th, Invisible Spell^{Incan 10}, Any Metamagic^{ML: Metamagic Storm}, Iron Will^{ML: Otyugh Hole}, Lucky Start^{ML: Court of Thieves}, Diehard^{ML: Shriver}, Blind-Fight^{Sp: Bite of the Wearbear}, Power Attack^{Sp: Bite of the Wearbear}, Improved Bull Rush^{Item: Battleaxe Of The Bull}, Shock Trooper^{Sp: Heroics}, Extraordinary Spell Aim^{Pact Insidious}, Evil’s Blessing^{EE 1}, Harvester of Souls^{EE 5}, Insane Defiance^{EE 10}, Evil Brand^{EE 15}, Master’s Will^{EE 20}.
I had a Q/A thread confirming the fact that you can be a Lesser Half-Giant and skip taking levels in it's racial class, thus no ECL on base traits only. Primordial is the main region for it as that's +4 racial to Charisma. Dragonborn for Dragonblooded (helps feats/spells) and Necro for Corpsecrafter abuse which may or may not actually be allowed. Anyway, it requires worshipping an elder evil and taking an oath with a demon lord that can only be obtained via SS's Ritual of Association. Obtains the standards in Cold Casting, Uber charger, Incantatrix Persistence, Mailman, and has a nice metamagic list.

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Spell List: http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=4683.msg65891#msg65891
Spell Buffs (max 10 persisted via incantatrix): Bite of the Werebear*, Devil's Ego*, Elemental Body, Expeditious Retreat*, Friendly Fire*, Greater Visage of the Deity*, Nixie's Grace*, Rightous Aura, Sirine's Grace*, Snowsong, Unearthly Beauty*. *Persisted
Snowsong is presumed to be cast as needed, it has a duration of 10min/cl so it doesn't really eat up all your spell slots. Not that it matters, you get six bonus 6th level spells from Charisma...

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Equipment
Weapon - +1 "Charging" Lance (43,110)
Valorous (+1 bonus)
Normal +2 Battleaxe Of The bull (32,310) - +2 (8,000) = 24,000
Normal +2 Halberd of Vaulting (20,310) - +2 (8,000) = 12,000
Sudden Stunning (2,000)
Gloryborn (800)
Off Hand - +1 Eager Warning Initiative Parry Gauntlet (46,000)
Carried - +1 Rapid Wrath (7,702)
Carried - +2 Githyanki Silver Sword (8,000+90+315=8.405)
Carried - Rod of Absorption (50,000)
Armor - Icemail Armor (65,400)
Command (+2 bonus)
Vengeful (+1 bonus)
Normal +3 Icemail(52,000) - +3 (9,000) = 43,000
Base Icemail (43,000) + +4 (16,000) = 59,000
Durable (500)
Restful (500)
SoulForged (400)
Fearsome (5,000)
Head - Crown of White Raven Tactics & Douse the Flames (7,500)
Neck - Phylactery of Change (11,200)
Shoulders - Cloak of IHS & Disarming Strike (7,500)
Bracers of Empyreal Armor +6 (64,000)
Gloves - Horseshoes of Flame (30,240)
Ring 1 - Ring of Mind over Body (3,000)
Generic - Resistance +5 (25,000)
Boots - Horseshoes of Flame (---)
Graft - Strong Leg (8,000)
Graft - Fast Leg (4,000)
Wand - Favored of the Martyr (420 per charge)
Wand - Rightous Aura (420 per charge)
Used - Wish x5[inherent to Cha] (132,650)
Location - Metamagic Storm (5,000)
Location - Court of Thieves (6,000)
Location - Otyugh Hole (3,000)
Location - Rainbow Falls (5,000)
Location - Worm of Minauros (8,000)
Location - Shriver (30,000)
Location - Heart of Ice (3,000)
Ritual - Ritual of Association[devil] (56,000)
Ritual - Ritual of Dark Flame (100)
Ritual - Ritual of Shadow Walking (500)
Slotless - Iuon Stone[pale green] (30,000)
Slotless - Stone of Good Luck (20,000)
Dragonpact - Hypothermia of the Freezing Cold [White?] (6,075)
Misc - Runestaff (36,800)
Legacy - 'Uber Item Of Awesomeness' (38,000, -20 hp, -3 skills) // Used something like this with a Rogue once.
5: -
6: Obscuring Mist
7: Telekinetic
8: Crux of Balance
9: -
10: Restoration, Lesser 3/day
11: Slippery Barrier
12: Cunning
13: Glitterdust
14: Obscurity
15: Continual Wind
16: -Lesser- // TODO: Fill
17: Scales of Balance // Immune to negative energy & death effects
18: Paths of the Tides // Freedom of movement
19: Contingency 1/day
20: Pounce

Protections

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Immunity to Confusion, Critical Hits, Death Effects, Fatigue/Exhaustion, Fear, Fire, Flat-Footed, Negative Energy, Paralysis, Poison, Ranged Attacks, Sickened/Nauseated, Sleep, Stunning, Target based spells that check SR & anything Freedom of Movement prevents.
Resistance to Cold 15, Acid/Electricity 10, +6 vs bull rush/overrun/trip, Turning +6.
Damage Reduction 5/Cold Iron & 10/Magic.
Spell Resistance 25.
Healing: Regeneration 5/Good & Chaotic, Fast Healing 1, & Redirect any cure spell in 100ft to you.
Senses: Low-Light Vision, Darkvision 60ft. & Mindsight 100ft.
+6 to Save DCs (on top of the +31 from ChaMod).
Opponents must make a Will Save (DC 10+1/2HD+ChaMod=51) to do harmful, one try per attempt, works till succeeded.
Free Action: Anyone looking at you must make a Will Save (DC10+SP:lvl+ChaMod+6=55) or Die.
Free Action: Anyone looking at you must make a Fort Save (DC10+SP:lvl+ChaMod+6=55) or be Blinded.

If Empyreal Ecstasy: 1/2 damage from melee, immune to pain and new mind-affacting abilities (old are kept, yeahee moral to saves)
If Favor of the Martyr: gain Endurance, immune to non(Good & Chaotic) HP damage, daze, pain effects, and charm/compulsion.
If Arcane Spellsurge: double cast via Invisible Spell.
If Cold Snap: +3 per die with damaging spells, like a free stacking empower so to speak.
If Antimagic Field: via Extraordinary Spell Aim the build becomes immune to it's own AMF allowing it to play buffed spellcaster ubercharger vs spellcasters turned mundanes.

~Note: Needs immunity to divinations, Third Eye(conceal) costs too much to afford as is.

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HD: 20d12+240 (375.5 HP) = 20d12 (undead) + 40 (undead:desecrate) + 40 (undead:corpsecrafter) + 160 (undead:reobtained 14[+2] con and increased to 30[+10] change in HP)

Initiative: +21 (+36 with spells) = + 5 (insight) + 2/+12 (luck/improvisation) + 2 (unnamed) + 5 (dex) + 1 (competence) + 2 (aggressive) + 4 (undead:nimblebones) + 0/+5 (unnamed:neverskitter)

Speed:
Land: 160ft. = 30 (base) + 10 (unnamed:fastleg) + 30 (enhance) + 10 (undead:nimble bones) + *2 (rapid)
Fly: 640ft. (good) = (land x 2) + *2 (rapid)
Swim: 60ft. (nixie's grace) + *2 (rapid)
Swim: 120ft. (sirine's grace) + *2 (rapid)

AC: 67 = 10 (base) + 8 (armor) + 0 (shield) + 5 (dex) + 31 (deflection:chamod) + 4 (insight:snowsong) + -1 (aggressive) + 1 (natural:base:gvotd) + 2 (natrual:base:undead:hardenedflesh) + 7 (natural:enchantment)
Melee Touch: 48
Ranged: Reflects ranged.
Flat-Footed: Cannot be flat-footed.

Saves:
Fort +32 = 2 (sor) + 0 (pbard) + 3 (incan) + 2 (mind) + 0 (?) + 10 (con) + 15 (*)
Refl +27 = 2 (sor) + 2 (pbard) + 3 (incan) + 0 (mind) + 0 (?) + 5 (dex) + 15 (*)
Will +40 = 5 (sor) + 2 (pbard) + 7 (incan) + 2 (mind) + 0 (?) + 5 (wis) + 2 (iron will) + 2 (shriver) + 15 (*)
All +15 = 5 (resist: vest of resistance) + 6 (unnamed: bracers of empyreal armor +6) + 1 (insight: parry weapon) + 1 (luck: luckstone) + 1 (competence: iuon stone) + 1 (moral: vengeful armor)

Normal-Abilities:
Str -2 (- 5) =  8 (base) + -4 (racial:prime) + -6 (age)
Dex  2 (- 4) = 12 (base) + -2 (racial:hgiant) + -2 (racial:born) + -6 (age)
Con 20 (+ 5) = 16 (base) + 2 (racial:hgiant) + -2 (racialprime) + 2 (racial:born) + -6 (age) + 2 (inherent) + 6 (enhancement)
Int 16 (+ 3) =  9 (base) + 4 (racial:prime) + 3 (age)
Wis 12 (+ 1) =  9 (base) + 3 (age)
Cha 40 (+15) = 18 (base) + 4 (racial:prime) + 3 (age) + 5 (level) + 5 (inherent) + 1 (pact insidious) + 4 (competence)

Enhanced-Abilities
Str 33 (+11) = Polymorph [i]Self[/i] (15) + 12 (enhancement) + 4 (visage of the deity) + 2 (alchemical)
Dex 21 (+ 5) = Polymorph [i]Self[/i] (9) + 2 (horseshoes) + 6 (enhancement) + 2 (visage of the deity) + 2 (alchemical)
Con 30 (+10) = Polymorph [i]Self[/i] (14) + 2 (inherent) + 8 (enhancement) + 4 (visage of the deity) + 2 (alchemical)
Int 30 (+10) = 16 (normal) + 10 (horseshoes) + 2 (visage of the deity) + 2 (alchemical)
Wis 20 (+ 5) = 12 (normal) + 2 (enhancement) + 4 (visage of the deity) + 2 (alchemical)
Cha 72 (+31) = 40 (normal) + 6 (horseshoes) + 8 (enhancement) + 4 (moral) + 4 (sacred) + 4 (profane) + 4 (visage of the deity) + 2 (alchemical)
Polymorph Self? Lol bit from Redmage's pun (8bit comic). Phylactery of Change grants unlimited Polymorph Self, a 3.0 spell dropped in favor for 'normal' Polymorph. In this case it's being used to Poly into a standard Half-Giant to drop physical penalties from Primordial, Dragonborn's -2 Dex, and Aging penalties.

Note, this does require use of the +2 enhancement version of Command printed in Defenders of Faith (opposed to the several +1 versions that can be found). And the +4 Moral comes from Snowsong, an unpersistable spell, so don't factor it into spells per day. Luhix is a plant based drug created using minor creation, with a Ring of Mind Over Body you never fail your Save vs Death. And finally, if Dragon Mag is allowed you can obtain another +2 Charisma using the *brain fart* template.

[Solo]

http://www.thetangledweb.net/forums/profiler/view_char.php?cid=22841

[Waazraath]

If you're looking for direct damage, this one is pretty iconic:

http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19868534/The_Mailman:_A_Direct_Damage_Sorcerer

[Biohazardia]

These are pretty helpful, thanks! Thing is, I'm not going to be at level 20, I'm only probably going to be at level 7, 8 or 9 (depending on the LA of my race - right now I'm looking at level 8). So...I won't have access to all the cheese that level 20 characters can get. That's the thing - I have to be up to speed by a lower level.

@SorO - How can I optimize both Cha & Int? (Wouldn't it just be more efficient to optimize Int only in the first place and Wizard it up then?)

Also, what about the errata for the Incantatrix? I understand that I won't even be able to use Instant Metamagic before level 12, but still.
Is there any prestige OTHER than Int-based Incantatrix for Sorcerers that will give 20d6+ 3x/day? I have been told by my DM that Sorcerers can be very powerful, I'm just not 100% sure on how to execute it.

[SorO_Lost]

@SorO - How can I optimize both Cha & Int? (Wouldn't it just be more efficient to optimize Int only in the first place and Wizard it up then?)

Yes it would be more efficient to be a Wizard, but meh.
1. If you going to use PAO to reset the base values of your mental scores, pick something with a decent Int score to go with that high Charisma.
2. Horse Shoes of Flame, a source of an unnamed +6 Charisma bonus, gives +10 unnamed to Intelligence as well.
3. Looking at buying a +6 Enhance to Dex? Why not Persist Necromantic Empowerment? It's +8 with a side of 100 temp HP. Oh, and +8 Enhance to Int...
And so on.

And 20d6 3/day is paltry. See the build I posted? At caster level 20 it deals 20d6+60 using a 4th level Spell Slot, guess how many of those it has with 72 Charisma?

[awaken_D_M_golem]

Sorc is a better idea than Wizard, for the first go round.
It works just fine in the levels 7, 8 or 9 range and any other.

LA+3 Nixie is not a good idea, for the first go round.
Human or another "normal" Sorc race is better.

Free LA+1 , I'd say 1st level of the Ghost template.
But the 1st level of Half-Fey template is closer to
the Nixie, and still a reasonable choice.

[phaedrusxy]

Instant metamagic isn't the gamebreaking power of the incantatrix, anyway. That's only what the unimaginative players see. The real power comes at 3rd level with metamagic effect. Crank up your spellcraft and go crazy!

[tiluvias99]

Try the War Mage from Dragonlance Age of Mortals. Over 5 levels it adds +3 Damage per Die to all damage dealing spells. On anything that is based off the d6 (e.g., fireball), you're basically doubling the damage.

[Nunkuruji]

Try the War Mage from Dragonlance Age of Mortals. Over 5 levels it adds +3 Damage per Die to all damage dealing spells. On anything that is based off the d6 (e.g., fireball), you're basically doubling the damage.

Errata puts a per day limit on this I believe

[Jackinthegreen]

Said errata can be found in Towers of High Sorcery and is as follows:

War Mage Errata
(from Age of Mortals)
The war mage’s Battle Magic class feature can be
used a number of times per day equal to 3 + the
war mage’s Constitution modifier. This bonus
is not a variable spell effect, and is therefore
unaffected by metamagic feats that affect variable
spell damage (such as Empower Spell). Intimidate
is also a class skill for the war mage.

Bit of a bummer really.

[Empirate]

For your race, look into the Sylph from Monster Manual II. It gets Sorcerer casting equal to racial HD + 4. It also has an LA of +5, so after subtracting your free LA, you end up with Sorcerer casting equal to what a class without LA or racial HD would get.

Sylphs are Outsiders (Alter Self! Polymorph!), so their racial HD are actually superior: try to get up to 9 racial HD, the maximum, before taking actual Sorcerer levels. Sylphs also get a pretty nice fly speed, very good ability score adjustments (Cha +6, wis +6, int +4, dex +2, str -2 and con -2), Greater Invisibility at will, summon a large elemental 1/day...

The only thing that hurts a bit is the relative lack of feats and the low skill caps. Although you get more skillpoints (8+Int bonus each level, and your Int is high), and better class skills: Balance, Concentration, Escape Artist, Hide, Jump, Knowledge (nature), Listen, Move Silently, Spot, Survival and Tumble.

[awaken_D_M_golem]

Heh yeah ... and you get those slightly racy pics from previous editions too.