Tanking it all in.

[snakeman830]

A while back, I started thinking about some of the Crusader builds and how tanky they could be.  Then I thought about ways to improve upon that.  I came up with the following, but I would really like assistance in improving it.

There are, however, some restrictions:

• No Dragon magazine material.  This is due to lack of easy access and how often such material is banned
• No spellcasting.  Most people here on the CharOp boards know you can become practically invincible through spells.

Should be easy enough.

Here is the build so far:
Half Ogre Quasilycanthrope.  Major Silver Dragon bloodline
Incarnate 4/Crusader2/Warshaper 3/Crusader11

Base stats (after racial and bloodline adjustments, using 32 point buy)
Str: 21
Dex: 12
Con: 19
Int: 12
Wis: 8
Cha: 11

Natural armor bonus of +7 before equipment

Feats:
Endurance (1)
Bonus Essentia (3)
Extra Granted Maneuver (6)
Stone Power (9)
Improved Bull Rush (bonus from goring horn graft)
Knock Back (12)
Steadfast Determination (15)
Feat slot at 18 is open, as are flaw slots.


Soulmelds: Impulse Boots (bound to feet), Therapeutic Mantle, Bluesteel Bracers, Planar Ward.

Equipment: Soulfire armor, Animated Proof against Transmutation shield, Vicious Wrathful Healing Vampiric Guirsame (as weapon), Ring of Freedom of Movement.

Also got Mantle of the Firey Soul cast for Fire subtype

Just from this, we can see the following for defense:
Evasion + Mettle + Uncanny Dodge
Immunity to critical hits, stunning, death effects, negative energy effects, energy drain, paralysis, slow, entangle, polymorph, and petrification.  Also immune to any attempt at posession or control.
Immunity to Fire and Cold.
Lots of healing from manuvers, all of which is amplified by the Mantle.
Healing on each attack, again amplified by Mantle.
Lots of HP
Delayed damage pool
DR10/silver

Still a quickie with what I could get updated on my lunch break, but more organized now.

[Zionpopsickle]

You should have some eager, warning, smoking armour/shield/netcutter spikes to provide initiative (which does have defensive as well as offensive purposes) and concealment.

Rebuking is good for your shield so you can trade enhancement bonus to pump a save.  In fact, you need more stuff to pump saves (the enhancment from BoED that give sacred bonus to saves), reroll saves, etc.  since saves are a primary defense against a ton of nasty stuff (both magical and mundane) which ignores many of the defenses you have.

You probably want even more swift/immediate action teleports since repositioning is a great way to defend yourself from situations that can't just tank.

Also, to make this theoretical exercise more practical I think you should attempt to stick with a more common base race and as few templates as possible.  Templating is another of those things that can be abused to kingdom come for large gain with little loss.

[Rebel7284]

Does manifesting count as spellcasting for this character?  I hear Expansion on a psychic warrior is good for melee.

[snakeman830]

A good number of those things will be included.

Half Ogre was chosen due to being Large size (to qualify for knock-back) and being a compatible type for Quasilycanthrope.  Quasilycanthrope was picked for easy access to Warshaper and good DR.  Lolth-touched doesn't add much, really, but it filled out the total of +3 LA that can be bought off pre-epic and the bonuses were at least relevant to the concept.

I am considering putting on Gleaming Dastana (constant concealment) to help there.  There is actually a large amount of cash that is currently unused (though I haven't calculated it).

And yeah, manifesting counts as spellcasting for this purpose.

[Garryl]

How are you getting Mettle? I only count 12 levels of Crusader, and it grants it at 13th.

[snakeman830]

How are you getting Mettle? I only count 12 levels of Crusader, and it grants it at 13th.

Thank you for pointing that out.  I thought I had a miscalculation somewhere.  Trading the Swordsage level (which really was unnecessary) fixes that nicely

[brujon]

How are you getting Mettle? I only count 12 levels of Crusader, and it grants it at 13th.

Thank you for pointing that out.  I thought I had a miscalculation somewhere.  Trading the Swordsage level (which really was unnecessary) fixes that nicely

At what level would say this build really matures?

[Jackinthegreen]

Guessing you're waiving some of the alignment stuff if you're including Lolth-touched?  Incarnates can't be chaotic evil, which is what Lolth-touched turns the character.

If Lolth-touched causes problems, perhaps Mineral Warrior instead?  Though that does lose the fear immunity, and even fear immunity won't be all that helpful against a Dread Witch, but it's still something against everything else.

Now I'm curious if there's a Fear Immunity handbook.

[snakeman830]

Lolth-touched has actually been removed.  Since the most recent printing of Half-Ogre gave it a +2 LA (instead of +1), something had to drop.  Since Lolth-touched didn't contribute anything but numbers, it got dumped.

As for what level the build matures, it is capable all the way through.  Up through level 4 is probably the roughest portion, but you would still be a solid Incarnate (which isn't bad).  Once the Crusader levels start, the self-healing takes off, but before then, you just don't shape the Mantle.  Warshaper brings in significant power in the natural weapons and reach and more survivability with the stat boosts.

[Jackinthegreen]

Now that I look at it, I really think there should be an Incarnate/Crusader Prestige Class.  Adding it to my list of "things I might get around to making eventually."

[sirpercival]

Now that I look at it, I really think there should be an Incarnate/Crusader Prestige Class.  Adding it to my list of "things I might get around to making eventually."

Definitely.

[Mithril Leaf]

Honestly, consider getting some bracers of armor with Empyreal from BoED (I think that's what it's called, the save thing). You can enchant them to +8 according to A&EG, which means a +8 sacred bonus to saves, although it's a costly investment at 100 grand.
EDIT: If you're investing resources into getting cold immunity, it's cheap from a spell in Frostburn.

[Jackinthegreen]

Now that I look at it, I really think there should be an Incarnate/Crusader Prestige Class.  Adding it to my list of "things I might get around to making eventually."

Definitely.

I guess I'll take it off my list since you've already done it.  lol

New idea though: PrC that uses a Warlock's Eldritch Claw feat and Tiger Claw maneuvers might work.  Or warlock/totemist perhaps.

[snakeman830]

EDIT: If you're investing resources into getting cold immunity, it's cheap from a spell in Frostburn.

Spell Compendium nerfed it to an hour/level duration (from Instantaneous).  It's Firey counterpart from Sandstorm (gives the fire subtype) did not get reprinted.

Regardless, Immunity to Cold comes from the Major Silver Dragon bloodline, which nicely covers up the vulnerability he has from the Fire subtype.

As for Empyral, I'll have to look into that.  It sounds like a great save booster.

[Jackinthegreen]

Empyreal:

Empyreal: This exquisitely crafted armor or shield, favored
by celestial champions of good, is often set with precious gems
and adorned with images of powerful archons, eladrins, or
guardinals. The wearer can transfer all or part of its enhancement
bonus to a sacred bonus on saving throws. The wearer
decides to make the transfer on his turn, and the choice remains
in effect until his next turn. Any evil creature wearing empyreal
armor or holding an empyreal shield is sickened (–2 penalty on
attack rolls, saving throws, ability checks, and skill checks) for as
long as the armor is worn or the shield is held (no saving throw).
Moderate abjuration and necromancy [good]; CL 9th; Craft
Magic Arms and Armor, resistance, shield of faith, sicken evil; Price
+2 bonus.

The A&EG rules for adding enhancements to Bracers of Armor can be found on page 130.

[SorO_Lost]

+5 Robe of the Vagabond of Resistance (CC/MiC, 26k): +5 resistance and +1 luck to saves.
+6 Empyreal Bracers of Armor (BoED, 64k): +6 sacred to saves, see A&E page 130 for rules on exchanging bonus types.
+5 Parry Spellstrike Gauntlet (SRD/MiC, 72k): +5 to saves vs spells and su/sp abilities & +1 insight to all saves.
Ioun Stone[Pale Green Prism](Core, 30k): +1 competence to saves.
Admiral's Bicorne (SW): +2 moral to saves, all nearby allies gain this benefit as well.
...
Shriver (FCII): gain immunity to fear, sickened/nauseated, confusion, fatigue/exhaustion, +2 to will saves, regeneration 5/good & chaotic, 1/day cl 5 barkskin as a free action, gain diehard, and you can try redirect any cure spell in 100ft to you. All for 30k and evil or lawful/30 can be done with any alignment.
...
The Peak of Continuation (PH, 184): super dr 1/- and 1/visit component free resurrection cast on you when you die.

Also, have you considered Hellbreaker? It gets up to +30hp/swift action by level 7 (8?).

[snakeman830]

Considered, but that would mean losing access to Strike of Righteous Vitality (Heal every few rounds is very nice, even if the Mantle is rather minimal in comparison).  Very nice list, though.  I had forgotten about how cheaply you could stack saves.  I'll have to look over the Shriver again, though the benefit is veeery tempting.

EDIT: up to 9 points of obesiance every 99 days?  For a Lawful character, that is stupidly easy.

[SorO_Lost]

Mantle? Oop lol wrong one.

Hellreaver. Each Encounter you gain prc_level+ChaMod points can you can spend them in various ways.
Strike: Swift & 1 point, +2/4/6/8 to attack & +(1/2/3/4)d6 damage for levels 1/4/7/10.
Succor: Swift & 1 point, +10/20/30HP for levels 2/5/8. Also can use on any Good-Aligned ally in 20ft.
Resolve: Immediate & 2 points, +4 to a single Save.
Shield: Immediate & 2 points, +4 to a AC against a single attack.
Call to Judgment: Swift & 3 points, Dimensional Anchor (cl=prc_level) on next attack.
Also grants; Mettle, Swift Action take 2 Con Damage to replenish points, 1/day Smite Evil Outsider (death or 10d6 damage).
Other: d10 HD, Excellent BAB, Good Will, poor skills (2/lvl).

8 levels in it means 8th level Maneuvers, you'd still get the dual Counter Stance to heal and Counter (either with maneuvers of the resolve/shield abilities) within the same round. And when talking level progression, it nets the +10HP/rnd benefit at the 7th level, +20/rnd by 10th, +30/rnd by 13th. You won't get Righteous Vitality till the 17th level. And even if you do if you can't use it more than once every two Rounds, it heals less and prevents Full-Attack options. Ouchie. Through the other Maneuvers for full-progression are of course more versatile than straightforward Healing.

It's really not a bad PC if damage immunity is off the table. Specially since that amazing healing rate is obtained so fast.

[snakeman830]

Oh the healing rate is fantastic, no doubt about that.  I just like Strike of Righteous Vitality's ability to remove almost anything that makes it past the saves/immunities (ability damage is tricky to get immunity to, and this is the best method of negating it) and the 150hp healing doesn't hurt.  It also means that I can use the Swift actions to relocate essentia, activate items, change stances, or whatever else I like and still be able to keep a strong flow of healing.

Yes, using it means you don't get a full attack, but so does moving.

Therapeutic Mantle is what I was referring to, btw.  Twice essentia invested in bonus healing from every source?  Two sources on the weapon, plus a likely stance, plus a likely maneuver, plus fast healing...it adds up very quickly.

[SorO_Lost]

Therapeutic Mantle is what I was referring to, btw.  Twice essentia invested in bonus healing from every source?  Two sources on the weapon, plus a likely stance, plus a likely maneuver, plus fast healing...it adds up very quickly.

Oh. Hellbreaker has Mantle of Darkness, an HiPS-like ability with no clause for hiding in your own shadow. I thought you looked at breaker and nay'ed on it because I can't tell those two apart.