Magic Item Creation Stupid Question

[OblivionSmurf83]

A magic item creator can clearly source a spell prerequisite for a magic item from another character. However, can they source the XP requirements for the item? I'm envisaging a situation where an Archivist sources the spell and XP requirements for a scroll from an Artificer, while creating the scroll themselves.

Also, this is obviously a bit of a stupid question; I could've sworn there was a thread for these?

[Gribel]

Instead of the thread, there's now a subforum. As for your question, there's a spell for that: Transference, from PHB2.

Edit: can be found here.

[OblivionSmurf83]

Perfect, thanks for that!

[kitep]

From the magic item compendium, p232, last paragraph

All items have prerequisites in their descriptions. These prereq­
uisites must be met for the item to be created. Most of the time,
they take the form of feats and spells that the item's creator must
know, although access through another magic item or spellcaster
is allowed. It's perfectly acceptable for two or more characters to
work together to create a magic item, with each character sup­
plying some of the prerequisites. (In all places where this text
refers to the "creator" of a magic item, it includes all characters
supplying at least one prerequisite for the item's creation.) The
XP cost must always be paid by the character who supplies the
item creation feat required by the item, no matter how many
other characters cooperate in its creation.

If the artificier can find someone else to supply the feat, then that someone else gets to pay the XP.
Someone already pointed out the Transferance spell.
I think there's a special material you can use that counts as XP, though I can't remember what it's called.
Don't forget the craft reserve, and the ability to drain magic from other items to replenish it.

Good luck!

[OblivionSmurf83]

Thanks, Kitep. At the moment, I'm just wondering if my Archivist will be able to copy a scroll over to his prayerbook without using it. That should circumvent the DMG's rules on using a scroll, which means the Archivist will just be able to scribe everything themselves.

If that doesn't work, my character'll have to think about whether they want to supply the XP for a scroll themselves, or whether they want to use an Artificer who's also in the party. The artificer would have to be compensated, but I'm loathe to spend my precious, precious XP.

[Kasz]

Someone who wants to supply the Artificer with xp could buy and give him Ambrosia. Ambrosia counts as 2xp for the purposes of crafting items and you can chug as many as you can find.

Your Archivist cannot copy scrolls the Artificer created, an Artificer's scrolls are neither Divine nor Arcane. It's a rules caveat they placed on the Artificer to stop him giving Wizards/Archivists and their ilk every spell known ever. He can copy any Divine scrolls he finds though.

Copying a spell into a spell or prayerbook shouldn't use the scroll, you're not completing the spell, merely copying the text / instructions. That's why it's a spellcraft check not a use magic device check.

[OblivionSmurf83]

Someone who wants to supply the Artificer with xp could buy and give him Ambrosia. Ambrosia counts as 2xp for the purposes of crafting items and you can chug as many as you can find.

Your Archivist cannot copy scrolls the Artificer created, an Artificer's scrolls are neither Divine nor Arcane. It's a rules caveat they placed on the Artificer to stop him giving Wizards/Archivists and their ilk every spell known ever. He can copy any Divine scrolls he finds though.

Copying a spell into a spell or prayerbook shouldn't use the scroll, you're not completing the spell, merely copying the text / instructions. That's why it's a spellcraft check not a use magic device check.

Copying a spell from a scroll removes it from the scroll. From p 179 of the PHB:

The process leaves a spellbook that was copied from unharmed, but a spell successfully copied from a magic scroll disappears from the parchment.

I understand the Arcane/Divine rule, but I was under the impression that only applied to activating scrolls. The rule is on p 238 of the DMG, and it only refers to activating scrolls.

[Kasz]

Page 32: Artificer—Item Creation
Magic items created by an artificer are considered neither arcane nor divine.

A wizard can't copy a divine version of Magic Missile into his spellbook because it's not an arcane spell and as such cannot be cast with arcane spellcasting, if for example an Archivist were to scribe a scroll of Magic Missile.

(click to show/hide)

Magic Missile as a Divine Spell is available from the Force Domain

In that same vein a Wizard can't copy an Artificer's scroll because it's also not arcane.

EDIT: Page 178 of the players handbook, talks about adding scrolls to a wizards spellbook, and you'll note it mentions the spellcraft check to decipher "Arcane Magical Writings" this implies the scrolls the wizard adds to his spellbook are Arcane Magic, a Divine scrolls would not have Arcane Magical Writings, they would have Divine Magical Writings. This is an assumption but the prayerbook rules basically state: Use the Wizard's spellbook rules except Divine.

Because an Artificer's items are neither Arcane or Divine they would lack either Arcane Magical Writings and Divine Magical Writings, meaning these writings cannot be copied over... they are Artificer's Magical (Or Infusion?) Writings

Even if you allowed the Wizard or Archivist to copy an artificer scroll into their book they could not prepare and cast the spell because it would not go into an arcane or divine spell slot and they lack infusion slots.

[nijineko]

From the magic item compendium, p232, last paragraph

All items have prerequisites in their descriptions. These prereq­
uisites must be met for the item to be created. Most of the time,
they take the form of feats and spells that the item's creator must
know, although access through another magic item or spellcaster
is allowed. It's perfectly acceptable for two or more characters to
work together to create a magic item, with each character sup­
plying some of the prerequisites. (In all places where this text
refers to the "creator" of a magic item, it includes all characters
supplying at least one prerequisite for the item's creation.) The
XP cost must always be paid by the character who supplies the
item creation feat required by the item, no matter how many
other characters cooperate in its creation.

If the artificier can find someone else to supply the feat, then that someone else gets to pay the XP.
Someone already pointed out the Transferance spell.
I think there's a special material you can use that counts as XP, though I can't remember what it's called.
Don't forget the craft reserve, and the ability to drain magic from other items to replenish it.

Good luck!

it may be valuable to point out that the quoted limitation is overridden by the supplemental rules previously mentioned from the PHB2 web enhancement, which provide a spell (already mentioned), but also a feat, an item, and a ritual, all of which allow transfer of xp from other characters (n/pc). my artificer uses this extensively so that he can craft things for people, and they can pay for it themselves... in all respects.

i think the material you speak of is called ambrosia from the boed, iirc?