Free Practiced Spellcaster (sort of)

[RobbyPants]

What do you think would be the lasting effects if your caster level (for purposes of level-dependent variables) were automatically assumed to be equal to your Hit Dice? Figure, any CL boosts would go on top of this*.

The basic idea would be to make it easier to play gishes. So, Fighter 1/Wizard 1 would still have the spells per day of Wizard 1, but the spells would be as potent as those cast by a 2nd level wizard. You still lose out by multiclassing in that you're slowed down in how quickly you get your top level spells, but this does take some of the sting out. The idea was to provide something like Practiced Spellcaster without the feat tax.

This also opens up interesting ideas like Noncaster X/Caster 1, just to get some small bonus that scales with level.




* Perhaps, to keep things from going too crazy, there could be a limit to just how high your CL could get. It might be something like this:

Character    Max
Level        CL
_________________________
1 - 5        HD + 1
6 - 10       HD + 2
11 - 15      HD + 3
16+          HD + 4

[Havok4]

It would make the one level cloistered cleric dip even better for melee types. It would not be a bad thing overall as it will make it easier to multiclass around as a caster, which would still make them less powerful but opens up a wider variety of character options. That sounds like a good thing to me. It might be problematic with classes like urpriest and other fast progression classes, also classes like the suel arcanamach and trapsmith become much better with this change.

[RobbyPants]

It might be problematic with classes like urpriest and other fast progression classes,

I think I would do away with those. That whole design concept is rife with problems.

[Phoenix00]

How would this work with psionics?

[SneeR]

How would this work with psionics?

Judging from spell-psionic transparency most games have... same thing?

[RobbyPants]

I'd be fine with it working like that with psionics, except that psions have to spend PP to augment their powers, so a free manifester level boost is a mixed blessing.

The only way I see something like that working is to get rid of PP, put them on a slotted system like a sorcerer, and assume that they can augment up to their manifester level for free. But that's a pain in the butt.

[X-Codes]

I'd be fine with it working like that with psionics, except that psions have to spend PP to augment their powers, so a free manifester level boost is a mixed blessing.

The only way I see something like that working is to get rid of PP, put them on a slotted system like a sorcerer, and assume that they can augment up to their manifester level for free. But that's a pain in the butt.

It's not a mixed blessing, the duration, range, and many other things their powers do are based purely off Manifester Level and not PP expenditure.  What's more, they don't *have* to augment the power if they don't want to.  A way to semi-fix this is to also allow Psionic classes to get more bonus PP from having high ability scores, even if they don't gain more powers or PP from advancing in their class.

EDIT: A Psion 1/Fighter 4 (w/ 16 Int), with this change, for example, has 9 power points per day, not 3.

[StreamOfTheSky]

Also with psionics, your ML factors into how many bonus PP you get, so this would help with that, too.  Not sure if that's what X-Codes was talking about or not.

EDIT: Would this change also effect Initiator Level at all?  It currently actually has an "out of class" advancement rate of 1/2 HD.  To have CL go from absolutely nothing to double that ratio seems...wrong w/o also making IL go up by 1 for every HD regardless of where it came from.

[RobbyPants]

Also with psionics, your ML factors into how many bonus PP you get, so this would help with that, too.  Not sure if that's what X-Codes was talking about or not.

Well, and that's where magic and psionics diverge. With this variant, a multiclassed caster wouldn't get any more spells than normal but his spells would say potent (other than DCs*). A multiclassed psion has the issue of needing PP to augment. Giving those PPs out is a boost that the caster wouldn't be getting.

I don't see any easy way to get this to work with a point-based system. Giving out free augments makes 1st level powers much better than higher level ones in an effectiveness to cost ratio. Giving out free points gives them more uses per day.

Perhaps a half-way point would be to give out extra points in a separate pool that can only be used for augments. Maybe that would let us have our cake and eat it too.

EDIT: Would this change also effect Initiator Level at all?  It currently actually has an "out of class" advancement rate of 1/2 HD.  To have CL go from absolutely nothing to double that ratio seems...wrong w/o also making IL go up by 1 for every HD regardless of where it came from.

Initiator Level is a weird beast in that it also affects the maximum level of a maneuver you can learn. Martial Adepts don't have a hard-coded progression built into their class. If that were added in, I could see giving IL = HD in for them. Although, a lot of things don't scale really, so it's also not as much of a boost for them as it is for casters.

I'm working on redoing maneuvers so more of them scale (particularly Desert Wind), so I'll have to see how I feel about that later.


* On a side note: how do you feel about mixing this idea with setting all DCs to be 10 + 1/2 HD + ability mod? It lets your DCs stay competitive on your lower level spells. It makes it easier to multiclass. The downside is this is a wholesale power-up to a straight classed caster (mostly, they're technically one DC behind on their highest level spells at odd levels).

[veekie]

Setting all DCs to be consistent is a fine concept if spells weren't so hax. You'd need to combine that with an overall major nerfbat first.

[RobbyPants]

Setting all DCs to be consistent is a fine concept if spells weren't so hax. You'd need to combine that with an overall major nerfbat first.

Yeah. It's hard to look at this in a vacuum. This is part of a larger fix I'm working on.

The problem is, I'm afraid to post too much at once, because some of my larger threads already get few responses. Catch 22, I suppose.

[veekie]

Maybe if you posted them item by item, then compact them into one later. More than 4-5 items at once is really hard to discuss properly.

[RobbyPants]

Maybe if you posted them item by item, then compact them into one later. More than 4-5 items at once is really hard to discuss properly.

That's the plan, long run. The idea is to vet out other concepts, with at most, minor mentions of other houserules.

That being said, if spells weren't so crazy, you think the DC fix might work? On a semi-related note, I'd consider running a variant on saves where you use fractional saves, and you only get the "good" +2 bonus to each save once. Overall, this should increase saves for everyone with the exception of people with lots of different classes.

[veekie]

Easily, I think, the DC issue was to enforced planned obsolescence on lower level spells(which is pointless because lower level spells still work just fine by avoiding the DC issue entirely), which, along with dice caps, in turn induces a large number of spells to be made available, so as to have enough new spells each level to function even while the old spells expire.

So in fixing DC(and possibly dice limits), you'd also have to remap spell learning, the means of determining spells per day etc.

[RobbyPants]

So in fixing DC(and possibly dice limits), you'd also have to remap spell learning, the means of determining spells per day etc.

That's not so bad. I've already made two new tables for spells known/spells per day for 9th level casters*. I could just tweak the spells per day to reflect useful low level spells, if that's an issue.


* The basic idea is that 9th level casters are either niche-casters like the beguiler or they have a sharp limit on spells known. For example: clerics and druids use their normal spell list but only know so many spells (somewhat more permissive than a 3.5 sorcerer, but still limited) and wizards are niche casters (most Evocation and non-calling/summoning Conjuration. A smidge of Abjuration, Divination, Enchantment, Illusion, and Transmutation. No Necromancy).