3.5 Druid - 2 Lvl Monk dip....Worth it?

[Lazwolf]

Thoughts on taking a 2 level dip into Monk for a 3.5 Druid? Specifically combining 2 levels of Monk, with the Monk's Tattoo (Magic of Faerûn p. 163). It's a bit spendy but gold is easy right? *grins*

So looking at Monk 2/Druid X -

The dip and magic item (which takes up no space and therefore should work in Wild Shape) gives you -

- 2 Bonus Feats - Improved Grapple and Combat Reflexes would seem VERY handy for a Wild-shaped Druid.
- AC Bonus (Ex) - +5 or higher for 18+ Wis.
- Evasion (Ex)
- Fast Movement (Ex) - +20 ft.

I would read that those all work while Wild-shaped since while they are Extraordinary abilities, they are not derived from your form, but are class abilities as per the Rules Compendium.

So any thoughts, opinions, such?

[Cyclone Joker]

And the Lord said "Thou shall not lose caster levels."
-Optimization 1:2

[wotmaniac]

If you don't mind being a whole spell level behind, and 2 levels behind on your Wild Shape, then go for it.
(that is, if you're not the party's primary caster)

[awaken_D_M_golem]

alt explanation ...

Depends on the powerlevel of the homegame.
Monk 1 / Druid 19 ... is stronger than Monk 20.
Monk 2 / Druid 18 ... is stronger than Monk 20 but weaker than Monk 1 / Druid 19.

Martial Monk 2 with it's basic trick / Druid 18 ... can be rather tasty for quite a while.

[Garryl]

You can get the AC bonus with a Monk's Belt, and Evasion with a Ring of Evasion. You already get an enhancement bonus to your movement speed all day long with the 1st level Longstrider spell, and there are better options available at higher levels (and probably for cash, too). Flurry doesn't work with natural weapons. So all you're doing is spending 2 class levels for 2 feats.

If you're wondering how to get items in Wildshape, just take them off, Wildshape out of combat, and put them back on. Between Natural Spell and the 1 hour/level duration, staying in Wildshape shouldn't be a problem. You can also purchase Wilding Clasps if you anticipating Wildshaping in combat while still wearing your items (since then they would meld into your new form).

[wotmaniac]

Goddammit, Garryl -- why to you have to muddle things up with shit like facts?   
Maybe some of us like to put things on hard mode.

[Garryl]

Bah! You're not really playing hardmode until you make setting it to hardmode into hardmode! Sure, you could just do it through the options menu, but that's no fun compared to editing the memory manually with fridge magnets!

[SorO_Lost]

I once set a game into hard mode like that.

I couldn't even beat the title screen. Just a bunch of random letters kicking my ass...

[wotmaniac]

 
(ow, that hurts)

[Halinn]

If, for some reason, you're adverse to wilding clasps for equipment that gives the AC bonus you'd be taking monk levels for, unarmed swordsage 2 isn't an awful dip after the first 18 druid levels. Actual monk you'd never want to take more than one level, and probably not even that.

[Tonymitsu]

If, for some reason, you're adverse to wilding clasps for equipment that gives the AC bonus you'd be taking monk levels for, unarmed swordsage 2 isn't an awful dip after the first 18 druid levels. Actual monk you'd never want to take more than one level, and probably not even that.

Monk technically has three levels.... they are levels 1, 2, and 6.  Monk 2 has pretty good UA features (like Cobra Strike variant) and Monk 6 can be handy to certain specific builds by getting you Improved Trip and swapping Still Mind and/or Ki Strike for something that's actually useful (like Holy Strike or Darkvision)

But yeah... Unless you are really, really, feat starved you can simply take Combat Reflexes as a level feat.  Improved Grapple isn't necessary since you can turn into things that have Improved Grab and while, yes, they stack it's pretty much overkill.  Certainly not worth losing two levels of druid casting for it.

[phaedrusxy]

You can get the AC bonus with a Monk's Belt, and Evasion with a Ring of Evasion. You already get an enhancement bonus to your movement speed all day long with the 1st level Longstrider spell, and there are better options available at higher levels (and probably for cash, too). Flurry doesn't work with natural weapons. So all you're doing is spending 2 class levels for 2 feats.

If you're wondering how to get items in Wildshape, just take them off, Wildshape out of combat, and put them back on. Between Natural Spell and the 1 hour/level duration, staying in Wildshape shouldn't be a problem. You can also purchase Wilding Clasps if you anticipating Wildshaping in combat while still wearing your items (since then they would meld into your new form).

You can, however, make your full attack unarmed strike/flurry routine, and then use all of your natural weapons as secondary attacks. So adding a monk level can boost your damage output, but you're going to be taking a -2 penalty on all of your attacks for it.

[Garryl]

Natural attacks aren't Monk weapons. You can't use them as part of a flurry of blows. It would be great if they were, though, as you'd get full Str to damage instead of 1/2 on your secondary natural attacks.

[Jackinthegreen]

Natural attacks aren't Monk weapons. You can't use them as part of a flurry of blows. It would be great if they were, though, as you'd get full Str to damage instead of 1/2 on your secondary natural attacks.

That might depend on whether the players/DM view Unarmed Strike as technically something that's available to every character with limbs.  Ever seen an animal swat at something, but not try to claw it?  Unarmed strike.

[awaken_D_M_golem]

(speculating)

DMM Heighten Cleric 1 (just short of the miracle cheese)
Divine Minion LA+1
Druid 1
Martial Monk 1
buy-off Divine Minion
Martial Monk 2nd level feat is Primary Contact (let's assume it can be)
Planar Shepherd , pulling it's punch at 10th level
Spends the dough for a Limited Wish = PsyRef item
Retrains out Primary Contact for something juicier
then MoMF 3 because it looks an awful lot like a middle pun-pun build.
3 levels left to fiddle.

So that's access to Cleric 8s and Druid 8s
Druid 11 casting, 12 for limited Wildshape but with PS goodies
Natural Spell, small pile of the items in the above posts.
Oh and Martial Monk 2 / MoMF 3 to go with it for flavor.
What's this, about high Tier 3 maybe Tier 2 at various levels.

[JohnnyMayHymn]

For best results, take the monk levels last.  Druid18, Monk2.

Or better yet, wait until epic levels.

[Cyclone Joker]

For best results, take the monk levels last.  Druid18, Monk2.

Or better yet, wait until epic levels.

Or even better yet, not at all.

[JohnnyMayHymn]

For best results, take the monk levels last.  Druid18, Monk2.

Or better yet, wait until epic levels.

Or even better yet, not at all.

yea, that's the less subtle way to say it. <friendly elbow jab>

[Cyclone Joker]

yea, that's the less subtle way to say it. <friendly elbow jab>

Ah, say no more. Say no more.