Author Topic: Them's Fightin' Words: Bad slogans in RPG communities  (Read 4860 times)

Offline Libertad

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Them's Fightin' Words: Bad slogans in RPG communities
« on: March 11, 2013, 02:58:13 PM »
After several years of immersion in RPG message boards and interactions with different fanbases, I've noticed that catchphrases, slogans, and opinions which are tolerated among one group are grievous insults to another.  Some of them are universal (accusations of munchkinism), others specific to certain communities.  A lot of times the phrases might not even be deliberately used as an insult: a phrase which is repeatedly used on one message board can give the poster an idea that it's OK (or at the very least well-accepted), only to find that it doesn't fly elsewhere.

Here's a few I've noticed:

Comparisons of 4th Edition to World of Warcraft: Bad enough that it nets you a temporary ban for "Edition Warring" on rpg.net.  While WotC admitted to borrowing some ideas from MMOs, the most vehement critics used the WoW label as a short-handed insult instead of applying any genuine criticism.

Grognard: Grognard is interesting in that the term can be one of endearment or derision.  Fans of pre-3rd Editions use it affectionately among themselves, but oftentimes it's used disparagingly to imply that such fans are stubbornly clinging to a dying past.  It also evolved into its own neologism among Something Awful's Traditional Games subforum, where it's used to describe all manner of negative behavior among tabletop fandoms (mostly for statements of bigotry and sexism, advocates of 'caster supremacy,' and nerdrage).

Rollplayer: It's never a good idea to claim that a fanbase cannot role-play, or that a certain playstyle is inimical to it.  It's common sense, really.

Claims of entitlement, instant gratification: I've seen this used by fans of older Editions used against newer Editions, most specifically against 4th.  From my understanding, the criticism is that access to at-will powers, "flashy" special attacks, and healing surges at 1st level is rewarding the players for doing no work.  They view such abilities as in the domain of higher-level characters.

Any others you've spotted?
« Last Edit: March 20, 2013, 09:29:24 PM by Libertad »

Offline kitep

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Re: Them's Fightin' Words: Bad slogans in RPG communities
« Reply #1 on: March 12, 2013, 04:07:10 AM »
"The FAQ says ...."

"I go by RAW" or "I go by RAI"

Offline Solo

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Re: Them's Fightin' Words: Bad slogans in RPG communities
« Reply #2 on: March 12, 2013, 04:07:33 AM »
Women are...
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Offline InnaBinder

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Re: Them's Fightin' Words: Bad slogans in RPG communities
« Reply #3 on: March 12, 2013, 08:14:33 AM »
Women are...
Bah.  It's about RPG catchphrases.  That said, you did lead nicely into: "There are no real women involved in RPGs."
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Offline RobbyPants

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Re: Them's Fightin' Words: Bad slogans in RPG communities
« Reply #4 on: March 12, 2013, 09:01:07 AM »
Gygaxian: It might be my own bias, but I've only seen this used as a negative, referring to old-school, antagonistic DMing. People who defend this style of gaming won't like the insult, and may take even greater offense in that Gygax's name is being used as a pejorative.


Tiers: I've seen plenty of tier arguments over the past five or so years over at least four different communities. While CO/BG/Min-Max generally embraces (or at least uses the same terminology) JaronK's tier categories, I've seen the D&D wiki use their own tier system (wizard, rogue, fighter, monk), and several have been kicked around at The Den (mostly as analogs to 4E's Heroic/Paragon/Epic split). Referencing the wrong type of tiers in a community will rustle some serious jimmies.


Neckbeard: While this is meant to insult a type of player, which could be from any edition, it seems (at least in my experience) to get aimed at grognards.
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Offline Libertad

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Re: Them's Fightin' Words: Bad slogans in RPG communities
« Reply #5 on: March 12, 2013, 02:02:57 PM »
Story-Gamers: This is mostly specific to The RPG Site and RPGPundit's fanbase; the idea is that White Wolf games, Ron Edwards' Forge Games, and other table-top RPGs which use "narrative mechanics" aren't really RPGs at all.  Pundit takes it one step further and claims that such designers are plotting to bring down the industry; they call them "story-games" instead.  Referring to any of these games as an RPG over there is never a good idea, as I learned the hard way.

Story Games is a real tabletop RPG community, and as such the label is not inherently pejorative.  The negative meaning was adopted by its detractors.

Swine: On a related note, RPGPundit uses this term for pseudo-intellectuals in the RPG Industry; in theory.  In practice, I've seen him use it as a generic insult for any of his detractors, regardless of their relationship to White Wolf or 'narrativist' games.
« Last Edit: March 12, 2013, 02:12:18 PM by Libertad »

Offline bhu

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Re: Them's Fightin' Words: Bad slogans in RPG communities
« Reply #6 on: March 13, 2013, 12:50:42 AM »
Am I the only ones who finds the constant labeling in our fandom snooty and poseurish?  I've never really called someone a neckbeard or grognard or any of that.  If they're really offensive I just backhand them and call them an asshole.  I find asshole is sufficient insult for most people when backed up with contact.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2013, 02:58:41 AM by bhu »

Offline dman11235

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Re: Them's Fightin' Words: Bad slogans in RPG communities
« Reply #7 on: March 13, 2013, 01:38:51 AM »
I feel the same way bhu.
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Offline wotmaniac

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Re: Them's Fightin' Words: Bad slogans in RPG communities
« Reply #8 on: March 13, 2013, 01:51:16 AM »
eh -- sometimes it's useful to differentiate between the various flavors of assholes; as each different kind should to be handled in slightly different ways (it's an efficiency thing).
Though, your method is a quite useful in a wide variety of situations, bhu.

Offline Libertad

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Re: Them's Fightin' Words: Bad slogans in RPG communities
« Reply #9 on: March 13, 2013, 03:50:28 AM »
Am I the only ones who finds the constant labeling in our fandom snooty and poseurish?  I've never really called someone a neckbeard or grognard or any of that.

Anybody can call someone an asshole, bhu.  If you call someone a Grognard or Swine, it indicates that you're part of a Super-Special Club of Real Role-Players!

More slogans/fightin' words:

4rries: A combination of 4th Edition fans and furries.  Insulting to 2 separate fandoms at once!

3tard: Term for 3rd Edition fans.

4venger: A term used to refer to people who defend shortcomings of 4th Edition (in theory).  Combination of 4th Edition and Avenger.  Fails as an insult because Avengers (the character class and the movie) are both awesome.
« Last Edit: March 20, 2013, 09:32:38 PM by Libertad »

Offline Libertad

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Re: Them's Fightin' Words: Bad slogans in RPG communities
« Reply #10 on: June 20, 2013, 01:14:13 PM »
"You play it for nostalgia": A phrase used by newer edition (3rd and 4th) fans to refer to 'old school' players.  It' meant to say that the latter do not enjoy playing the Edition on its own merits, but rather for the feeling of reliving childhood memories.
« Last Edit: June 21, 2013, 02:01:46 PM by Libertad »

Offline RobbyPants

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Re: Them's Fightin' Words: Bad slogans in RPG communities
« Reply #11 on: June 21, 2013, 09:37:13 AM »
Magic Tea Party: MTP refers to portions of a game that aren't governed by rules, but more by playing Mother May I with the GM. Note that MTP isn't in and of itself bad, but it is used as a benchmark for two things:

1) If too much of a game is MTP, one wonders why you are paying for the "rules" in the first place.

2) If the outputs of the game are worse than MTP, then the rules are objectively bad.

MTP falls into "fighting words" territory when used in one of the above two ways to attack a game or edition in part or in whole.
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Offline Libertad

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Re: Them's Fightin' Words: Bad slogans in RPG communities
« Reply #12 on: June 21, 2013, 12:55:28 PM »
I've also frequently seen MTP used as a pejorative when a game doesn't have rules for something highly situational, won't come up often in actual play, or doesn't really need rules at all.  And is portrayed as a bad thing.

In many ways the phrase warped into something else entirely.

On a related note...

Edition Warrior: Hyper-partisan D&D player who prefers one Edition and frequently denigrates the fans of other Editions.

Munchkin:  We all know this one.  Can mean cheater, selfish player, powergamer, min-maxer, or any combination of the four.

Too Anime: Usually used by older Edition gamers in reference to the feel of newer Editions.  Or by Caster Supremacy advocates.  Martial powers, Tome of Battle, high-powered campaigns, and Pathfinder/4th Edition artwork are the most frequent targets.

Caster Supremacy:  Also known as Wizard Supremacy and Fighters Can't Have Nice Things. Meant to be a criticism of the game imbalances between casters and noncasters, but can be used as a pejorative against gamers who aren't bothered by the issue or who are explicitly against powering up noncasters.

Dissociated Mechanics: 4 years ago, The Alexandrian wrote an essay about 4th Edition game mechanics to explain why he felt that the design decisions were antithetical to a role-playing game.  Dissociated mechanics specifically deal with rules dissociated from the game world.

(click to show/hide)

Ended up being re-interpreted and misused by Edition Warriors, usually by portraying this as an objective flaw in the game or an indictment against martial characters having powers.  There's also the fact that the author describes 4th Edition in a passive-aggressive way.

Less of a slogan and more of an essay people use to denigrate 4E.

Pathfailure/Paizil: By our very own Sunic Flames/Roy/Mr. GC.  Denigrating terms for Pathfinder RPG and its fans, respectively.

Realism/Verisimilitude: Whether or not something is believable in the context of the fictional setting.  Has nothing to do with "realism" per se (except in non-supernatural modern games), although people often use the former term when they actually mean the latter.

Used as an insult to imply that an RPG doesn't make sense.  Or as a way to prevent noncasters from having nice things.

Historical Accuracy: Not necessarily specific to tabletop and historical games, this slogan is applied:

a.) as an excuse to constantly heap shit upon PCs who are not part of the dominant social structure or otherwise include unfun and uncomfortable material in gaming sessions.

b.) to defend elements the gamer believes to be accurate to the era as opposed to the reality.  Usually but not always influenced by pop culture interpretations.  Examples include the idea that nobody bathed in the Middle Ages (they actually did before the Black Plague), or that all cowboys were white.

c.) as an argument against making an entirely fictional (not an alternate or historical Earth) world progressive in social mores, most notably gender equality.  Bonus points if the defender is totally okay with other anachronistic elements, such as steampunk technology in a medieval world.

Forgist, Forgism, Forgie, etc: Someone affiliated with the Forge community, an RPG website maintained by Ron Edwards.  Usually a snarl word for people who prefer narrative-driven mechanics.  RPG Site lingo.

TBP: The Big Purple, nickname for rpg.net.  Made as a reference rpg.net's omnipresent color schematic.  Also RPG Site lingo.
« Last Edit: June 21, 2013, 10:19:38 PM by Libertad »


Offline McBeardly

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Re: Them's Fightin' Words: Bad slogans in RPG communities
« Reply #14 on: June 25, 2013, 11:25:00 AM »
Gygaxian: It might be my own bias, but I've only seen this used as a negative, referring to old-school, antagonistic DMing. People who defend this style of gaming won't like the insult, and may take even greater offense in that Gygax's name is being used as a pejorative.

To be honest I know a lot of people use this as an insult but among my group it has never been anything but a descriptor. Specifically it's that old school wackiness and whimsy that made OD&D wonderful. We may not want to play a Gygaxian game every meeting but it's good for a break from more serious stuff either as a series of one shots or a full on old school silliness campaign.

Time for me to contribute with the most irritating on from the Paizo boards

Schrödinger's Wizard:  used as a dismissive term anytime actual caster imbalance is brought up. Used to claim that caster supremacy doesn't exist because as soon as a wizard is actually stated they are no longer supreme.

Offline zook1shoe

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Re: Them's Fightin' Words: Bad slogans in RPG communities
« Reply #15 on: June 25, 2013, 12:12:19 PM »
Troll or Trolling
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Offline Libertad

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Re: Them's Fightin' Words: Bad slogans in RPG communities
« Reply #16 on: June 25, 2013, 04:01:20 PM »
Troll or Trolling

What is this slogan or phrase from, and what does it apply to in a tabletop fandom sense?

Offline bhu

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Re: Them's Fightin' Words: Bad slogans in RPG communities
« Reply #17 on: June 25, 2013, 06:37:04 PM »
I feel the same way bhu.
That's because you're both _____.

Ironic of you to say given that you're the boards resident troll...

Offline Libertad

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Re: Them's Fightin' Words: Bad slogans in RPG communities
« Reply #18 on: June 25, 2013, 09:10:37 PM »
Gygaxian DMing: Term for common tropes and themes from Gary Gygax's gaming sessions.  Can mean one of two things:

1.) Dungeon desings with inconsistent rooms and structure, random tables for magical effects, and relative lack of ecologies for monsters ("what do they eat?").

2.) An adversarial relationship between players and Dungeon Master.  The aim of the game is for the DM to send highly lethal an unfair situations to the PCs, and the players have to outsmart him through skill and luck.

Not necessarily an insult, but when used in such a way it infers towards a sadistic TPKer of a Dungeon Master.

Offline bhu

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Re: Them's Fightin' Words: Bad slogans in RPG communities
« Reply #19 on: June 25, 2013, 10:42:12 PM »
Gygaxian DMing: Term for common tropes and themes from Gary Gygax's gaming sessions.  Can mean one of two things:

1.) Dungeon desings with inconsistent rooms and structure, random tables for magical effects, and relative lack of ecologies for monsters ("what do they eat?").

2.) An adversarial relationship between players and Dungeon Master.  The aim of the game is for the DM to send highly lethal an unfair situations to the PCs, and the players have to outsmart him through skill and luck.

Not necessarily an insult, but when used in such a way it infers towards a sadistic TPKer of a Dungeon Master.

Aka virtually all local DM's when I was of high school age...