How can you make Spellthief work?

[Tonymitsu]

Possibility of a game starting up.

The DM wants to setting to be pretty much exactly feudal Japan... just with dwarves, elves, and gnomes and magic much...  yeah, I don't know.  I don't ask questions anymore.

Anyway we are starting off at level 1, and for character creation the only sources allowed are PHB, Complete Adventurer (to allow Ninja), and Complete Warrior (to allow Samurai).  I already asked him about using Oriental Adventures Samurai but he doesn't have that book and thus does not want to use anything from it.  Other sources he does have access to will be made available for use as we level.  He hasn't set any hard restrictions, just that things not be "insane".

for stats I rolled 12, 12, 14, 15, 15, 16.
EDIT: And we have 500 gold as starting wealth, but we can't own any one item that costs more than 100g.

Currently the optimization level/ability of the group is low.  Very, very low.

Since anything from the permitted books is in, I thought this might be an opportunity to try a spellthief, since they always looked like fun.  But the more I tinker with it the more it just feels underwhelming.

Ideally I'd like to fulfill the skill monkey role, using spells to augment combat abilities.  I want to try hit at least Spellthief 7 to pick up Absorb Spell because it looks to be the most fun ability of the class.
I told the DM I had a rough idea of Spellthief 7/Diviner 1/Unseen Seer X/Arcane Trickster X, and that I wanted to pick up the Master Spellthief feat from Complete Scoundrel.  He said all of this was perfectly okay with him.

right now I'm planning on Str, 12, Dex 15, Con 14, Int 15, Wis 12, Cha 16.
Human
1.  Spellthief 1- Improved Initiative, ????
2.  Spellthief 2
3.  Spellthief 3- Weapon Finesse
4.  Spellthief 4-
5.  Diviner 1-
6.  Unseen Seer 1- Master Spellthief
7.  Spellthief 5
8.  Spellthief 6
9.  Spelltheif 7- Arcane Strike
10. Unseen Seer 2- either Gravestrike, Golemstrike, or Critical Strike as targets for Advanced Learning
11. Unseen Seer 3-
12. Unseen Seer 4- Two Weapon Fighting
13. Unseen Seer 5-
14. Arcane Trickster 1-
15. Arcane Trickster 2- ???
16. Arcane Trickster 3-
17. Arcane Trickster 4-
18. Arcane Trickster 5- ???
19. Arcane Trickster 6-
20. Arcane Trickster 7-


Is there anything to a Spellthief I'm missing?  Is the class just really that underwhelming?

[Garryl]

Here's a Spellthief handbook for your perusal.

Yeah, Spellthieves are a bit underwhelming. There's an ACF in Dragon Magazine (anyone have the source?) that trades most of the sneak damage and 2 skills/level away for Bard spell progression, which is kinda nice, but unfortunately irrelevant for you (not an allowed source).

On the upside, seeing as you're starting at level 1, you'll be fine for a while. Spellthief compares favorably to Rogue at levels 1 and 2, and continues to look reasonably good for another few levels at least.

[Demelain]

Here's a Spellthief handbook for your perusal.

Yeah, Spellthieves are a bit underwhelming. There's an ACF in Dragon Magazine (anyone have the source?) that trades most of the sneak damage and 2 skills/level away for Bard spell progression, which is kinda nice, but unfortunately irrelevant for you (not an allowed source).

On the upside, seeing as you're starting at level 1, you'll be fine for a while. Spellthief compares favorably to Rogue at levels 1 and 2, and continues to look reasonably good for another few levels at least.

Dragon 353, Spellthief ACFs starting on page 84. Even if DrMag is blanket banned, see if you DM is receptive to allowing specific things. There are some pretty good options there.

Yeah, the class is a bit underwhelming without Dragon Magazine - sadly a lot of non-core classes don't receive much splat support.
I will forever lament that Duskblades don't pull spells from Sor/Wiz schools, and were instead printed with a "Duskblade spell list", for instance.

[Tonymitsu]

The party currently lacks a someone to deal with traps.  Giving up that ability could be trouble.

But I like that Trickster also adds bard spells to the spellthief spell list.  And we also lack a party face.  Can't hurt to ask.
Assuming he says yes, would it be a better idea to forget Arcane Trickster and instead do Unseen Seer into Ultimate Magus?

Assuming he says no, what about the currently planned progression?  what are other good feats for the build, especially level 1?

[gadeschaos]

It's a shame you're not allowed complete arcane for sublime chord, it's the only reason spellthief could be good ^^"

But still bard 1/ sorceror X/ spellthief1 could be a good caster if you need one. As a skillmonkey i'm not sure how spellthief could go really

[Tonymitsu]

Bump

Any other thoughts or suggestions at all?

[Arz]

Paragnostic Initiate - Steal buffs with physical augmentation and get more than the original caster did. Also it enhances st's that prefer flanking tactics.

[Tonymitsu]

Paragnostic Initiate - Steal buffs with physical augmentation and get more than the original caster did. Also it enhances st's that prefer flanking tactics.

I suppose.  A shame that trick works only if they have a prepared buff they haven't cast yet.  Can't get the benefit by stealing an active buff.

The other than Spell Disruptor none of the abilities from that class are terribly impressive.  Certainly not worth the loss of three caster levels if I go Trickster variant into Ultimate Magus.

What about first level feats for a Trickster Spellthief?

[Arz]

No. You want them to have cast it. Then by stealing the active spell, they have effectively cast it upon you. Tricky part is stealing non-personal buffs so that it is effective on you.

True it is mainly a good class for a straight spellthief. Its an idea I've been tinkering with that needs more work.

Craven or Two-Wpn are the best combat feats you have to start.

[Tonymitsu]

Craven was previously denied.
...And for some insane reason I was utterly convinced TWF had a BAB requirement.
 

What about non-combat feats, something like Able Learner?  Or is that not worth it when going Trickster?

[Arz]

Yeah. The more you think you know ...the more you must re-read.

SpT1-4/ParagnosticInitiate1-2/SpT5-6/Crusader1-2/SpT+
Darkstalker, Craven, Leadership, Staggering Strike, Obtain Familiar,
Cohort(Eldritch Disciple): Steal those invocations and Domain feats(sp).
Maneuvers: Defensive Rebuke, Foehammer, Mountain Hammer, Tactical Strike, White Raven Tactics + Leading the Charge, Thicket of Blades
Daelkyr Halfblood - Abberation type and symbiont share spells

oh and mindsight, though if they didn't like craven, good luck with that.