Titanic Creature

[ariasderros]

You are also only looking at choosing Growth at every chance. There are a lot of other options. If you wait until the last minute for it, that means you aren't able to take as much else. Some of those options are pretty good.

Also, since you can take BiB options as Size Matters, you can even wait until later than 16. But, again, you are missing out on other features and choices that are quite comparable to whatever else you'd be getting.

Lastly, you are also saying that you got up to that power level without that size and other features. If you are wanting the size, it means that it would benefit you, and you haven't had it. Why wait for that power, when having it now can make it more likely to survive the battles that gain you your levels?

Also, you'd need to be playing at levels that this would be relevant.

[Raineh Daze]

Well, if you're only going to fit into 20 levels, the best option to milk this is probably 7 something 13 this.

... that's an annoying number, really.

[oslecamo]

Hm, question: if Growth from this (or other monster classes) is applied to a creature with the swarm template, does the creature or the swarm increase in size? I think it's the swarm in the case of the actual class, but otherwise...

That creature type is specifically limited to creatures of a certain size by definition (diminutive-tiny). There's no such thing as a swarm of colossal anything, just as there aren't spellcasters whitout caster level.

More in particular, this prc only applies to a single creature, and a swarm is a group of creatures.

I think that makes sense as well. If you go straight Titanic Creature you grow fairly slowly. If you go into titanic creature from something that already grows, you grow faster. So a Titanic Giant will be larger than a Titanic Human.

But if you go into Titanic Creature from a 15th level fighter, you grow much faster than if from a level 1 fighter, too. So it's not really a size thing.

15th level characters can fall from orbit to take a swim in a lake of lava. They clearly have much better body structure than 5th level ones.

[Concerned Ninja Citizen]

I think that makes sense as well. If you go straight Titanic Creature you grow fairly slowly. If you go into titanic creature from something that already grows, you grow faster. So a Titanic Giant will be larger than a Titanic Human.

But if you go into Titanic Creature from a 15th level fighter, you grow much faster than if from a level 1 fighter, too. So it's not really a size thing.

15th level characters can fall from orbit to take a swim in a lake of lava. They clearly have much better body structure than 5th level ones.

Also, a 15th lv human who takes 5 levels of Titanic Creature may grow faster than a 1st lv human who takes 15 levels, but they'll still cap out at gargantuan by lv 20, so a Titanic Giant is still bigger than a Titanic Human.

[Raineh Daze]

I think that makes sense as well. If you go straight Titanic Creature you grow fairly slowly. If you go into titanic creature from something that already grows, you grow faster. So a Titanic Giant will be larger than a Titanic Human.

But if you go into Titanic Creature from a 15th level fighter, you grow much faster than if from a level 1 fighter, too. So it's not really a size thing.

15th level characters can fall from orbit to take a swim in a lake of lava. They clearly have much better body structure than 5th level ones.

Also, a 15th lv human who takes 5 levels of Titanic Creature may grow faster than a 1st lv human who takes 15 levels, but they'll still cap out at gargantuan by lv 20, so a Titanic Giant is still bigger than a Titanic Human.

Large, Huge, Gargantuan, Colossal, Colossal+.  Why would they cap at Gargantuan?

[Concerned Ninja Citizen]

I misread this post:

Hm, looking at this again has drawn it to my attention that taking, say, five levels of this at level 16-20 is better than taking it at all from level 2-14. In the first case, you get to grow up to Colossal+, whilst you'd only get to Gargantuan in the second case. Or an extra few levels in the first one to pick up some of the other abilities.

I'm not sure if it's good, bad, or neither that the class is vastly more useful the later you take it, but there we are. @_@

I thought you'd done the math and worked out that a medium creature could only get to gargantuan by 20 HD.

However, it seems you were actually comparing a 14 HD creature to a 20 HD creature.

EDIT: I now see what your issue was. It is a bit odd but not worth nerfing the class over. Instead, maybe Titanic Creature could be put on the list for the Extra Option feat (or given a similar feat of its own)? That way, filling out the class early won't lock you out of further growth.

[Anomander]

Or... you could just take Titanic levels when your HD allows you to pick Growth again. You don't have to take them in succession.
This template can easily be used to reach Colossal+ early if the base creature has some growth of its own. Especially if it applies more than one growth just by reaching higher HD once you get that class ability.

[Raineh Daze]

It's a class with so many options, though! @_@

... honestly think adding it to the extra option list would be fitting.

We just need to come up with even more options.

Also, Titanic Monstrous Spider. I think that's Colossal+++++ by level 20. That's one big spider.

[Threadnaught]

Also, Titanic Monstrous Spider. I think that's Colossal+++++ by level 20. That's one big spider.

Won't work.

In order to get the full 13 Growths made possible by this PrC, you'd have to have 52HD. Since 13x4=52.
So you'd also need another 39HD from other sources.


Incidentally, for a creature to grow from Medium to Mega Gargantuan (that's Planet size) on Osle's guidelines. 92HD.
Atuin anyone? 


Actually I forgot about the other 12 Growths made possible by Size Matters. 100HD total with an end size of Mega Titanic.

[Raineh Daze]

Also, Titanic Monstrous Spider. I think that's Colossal+++++ by level 20. That's one big spider.

Won't work.

In order to get the full 13 Growths made possible by this PrC, you'd have to have 52HD. Since 13x4=52.
So you'd also need another 39HD from other sources.

Um... that's not 13 Growths, that's the basic spider Growths + the Growths this class enables by 20HD. @_@

[Anomander]

She's right.

M Spider grows to colossal over 11 levels. Give it 5 titanic levels over HD 20 and it does reaches colossal +x5

If you want to spice it up, (there may be a better option, but this one is hilarious) give it Monster Blooded + Hybrid and give it the 3 Flail Snail levels before you get your first M Spider growth.
Maybe by starting as a flail snail and then getting monstrous spider levels.

Anyway. Doom spider. Colossal + x8
Flail Snail 3 / Monstrous Spider 11 / Titanic 5
Last level could be anything. Say, Pseudonatural Creature for more WTF.

[Raineh Daze]

Last level could be anything. Say, Pseudonatural Creature for more WTF.

Nah, make it a level of Worg. Then you're a wolf spider.

[Anomander]

Or, if it becomes an Extra Option feat choice, one or two Titanic level(s) could be traded for...
One level of Death Knight, Skeleton, Vampire or Zombie followed by one level (or two) of Swarm-Shifter.

Ridiculously huge undead spider made of gillions of mini undead spiders.

[oslecamo]

It's a class with so many options, though! @_@

... honestly think adding it to the extra option list would be fitting.

It'll be a hot day in the fifth layer of Hell before I make a feat that grants permanent growth.

[Raineh Daze]

It's a class with so many options, though! @_@

... honestly think adding it to the extra option list would be fitting.

It'll be a hot day in the fifth layer of Hell before I make a feat that grants permanent growth.

Not even with a clause like saint, requiring you to have X levels of Titanic Creature first?

[Draconas]

For the elementals that can change sizes, if they pick growth can they be any size category down to small if they pick growth?
And a cool Prc that could be based off of this and require construct/undead/elemental would be the ability to turn into a living city.
I'd do it myself, but I can never stay on one project for long enough, although I do have some ideas for class features typed up if you want to look at it, like having workshops and markets inside you, or the ability to build housing and charge rent.

[oslecamo]

It's a class with so many options, though! @_@

... honestly think adding it to the extra option list would be fitting.

It'll be a hot day in the fifth layer of Hell before I make a feat that grants permanent growth.

Not even with a clause like saint, requiring you to have X levels of Titanic Creature first?

Hmm... Ok, put it in with the condition you need to have taken 13 levels of Titanic creature.

For the elementals that can change sizes, if they pick growth can they be any size category down to small if they pick growth?

Yes.

And a cool Prc that could be based off of this and require construct/undead/elemental would be the ability to turn into a living city.
I'd do it myself, but I can never stay on one project for long enough, although I do have some ideas for class features typed up if you want to look at it, like having workshops and markets inside you, or the ability to build housing and charge rent.

I would be definetely in hearing more about that, even if it's just drafts.

[DavidWL]

And a cool Prc that could be based off of this and require construct/undead/elemental would be the ability to turn into a living city.

Yes.  Very cool!

You might even be able to spawn your own adventurers ...

[Draconas]

I've got a picture for each type that can select it, the castle is Rook from Demigods and the other two are city mechs from Dragonmech, which is a 3rd party D&D supplement involving mechs and evil moon stuff.
I also got the idea from Dragonmech. And don't worry about changing it a lot, I don't mind.





"living" city- requires you to be  Colossal+ and undead, construct, or elemental
Can let people live inside, has x amount of space for sufficient housing for medium creatures, with it increasing by x each size increment above Colossal+(was going to use city mechs in dragonmech, but you can do whatever). Housing for a larger size class costs twice the previous in space(for instance, housing for a large creature costs 2 space instead of 1). Does not start out with comfortable housing.  Can change internal structure with meditation over the course of 24 hours, but cannot heal damage. Can communicate with people inside and vice versa but not very quickly. After has lost 1/3 health, people inside will start to take damage. Starts with one of below options and can gain more over course of class.

market- gets money based on amount of people not in party inside you from percentage payed by shopkeepers(probably smaller amount then housing), can sell items for higher amount as well as buy things for lower prices due to innate knowledge of market since it's inside you and you can observe it Housing- Housing that forms inside is now comfortable enough that people will buy if you charge rent. Selling is inadvisable due to legal implications of selling bits of your body, up to GM how high rent can go before people start leaving or don't rent. battlements- ranged attacks can be fired by inhabitants, and range of attack by inhabitants is doubled, and then increased by original range again each size above Colossal+ communications- allows inhabitants to use aid another action on living city for mental skills as well as just plain communicate with character and other inhabitants as if right next to each other. craft- can give up space worth one creature of a particular size to create a same-sized workshop with masterwork tools for one craft skill and any similar ones (example is woodworking and bowcrafting or weapon and armor making). Tools cannot be removed from workshop and workshop does not come with raw materials or fuel for forges/ovens/etc. Can reverse process to regain space. Servitors- ability to make 1 unseen servant per unit of space and control them or grant control of them to people. Troops- can make and maintain 1 human skeleton for every 3 space, but skeletons type and subtype is same as living city and immunities, resistances, and DR type(but not amount) are changed to living cities' as well.(probably some better way to do this) Siege weapons- Slaughterhouse- allows one to butcher and sell killed beings made of flesh or of the plant subtype at a rate of ? gp for medium creatures, with each size category above medium selling for double the next smallest and each size category below selling for half the next largest. Dragons sell for double the price, aberrations sell for 1/2 the price, and undead and constructs made of flesh sell for 1/4 the price. menagerie- allows one use space to store living(includes animate undead and constructs) non-sapient creatures, and sell them at any time for x gp per hd. Certain creatures may be higher or lower at DM's discretion. prison- prison for sapient creatures and interrogation. Uses space food each prisoner. cooperative casting chamber- check dragonmech for cooperative/combined casting feat, all casters in this chamber can use it.(didn't check before lost interest) Weapon of the people- allows you to have a ranged or melee weapon you wield gain a +1 enhancement bonus per x HD of people inside you(assume the average person has 1 HD unless stated otherwise). Enhancement bonus can be also be spent on these enchantments(constructs get ones involving animating, spells, and that only affect the weapon; undead get ones involving negative/positive energy, negative levels, fear, and life/death; and elementals get ones involving planes, elements, and acid/electricity/sonic/fire/cold) Upsize- you grow one size category. You may choose this option more then once Exradimensional Structure- Changing size has no effect on the amount of space you have. In addition, people inside you can no longer be damaged if you are. Bulwark- you are no longer damaged by environmental conditions, and the people inside you are not affected either. Environmental conditions includes temperature, weather, wind, and natural meteors.(The natural meteors because that's what the city mechs in Dragonmech are supposed to protect from)

Pathfinder

all +1 Conserving Distance Allying Bane Benevolent Courageous Cunning Defending Distance Furious Guardian Huntsman Jurist Keen Ki focus Limning Lucky Menacing Merciful Mighty cleaving Mimetic Neutralizing Reliable Valiant +2 Advancing Anarchic Axiomatic Designating, lesser Furyborn Holy Ki intensifying Stalking Unholy +3 Lucky, greater Reliable, greater Repositioning Speed +4 Brilliant energy Designating, greater Nimble shot undead +1 Conductive Cruel Deadly Ghost touch Grayflame Heartseeker Ominous Vicious +2 Defiant Disruption Glorious Invigorating Lifesurge Wounding +5 Vorpal construct +1 Adaptive Called Conserving Countering Dispelling Glamered Impervious Throwing Spell storing Returning Seeking +2 Anchoring Endless Ammunition Impact Negating +3 Nullifying Spellstealing Transformative +4 dancing Second Chance elemental +1 Corrosive Flaming Frost Grounding Quenching Shock Thawing Thundering Planar Phase locking Seaborne Shocking burst +2 Corrosive burst Dispelling burst Flaming burst Icy burst Igniting +3

D&D 3.5


Also gains spell-like ability usable 1/day per HD at start/end(don't know which to pick) of class depending on type. Has caster level equal to HD

Construct- can cast animate objects, but ability has a range of long instead of medium, and can animate 4 objects per caster level Elemental- can create 5 5-foot cubes per HD of elemental matter within a range of long. Blocks must be touching either the ground or another block, although they can be held up from any side(this means you can make ceilings, not just walls and floors). Elemental matter has the hardness of stone, and a different ability depending on your elemental subtype. Air- You may designate any number of creature who can pass through the matter freely, as well as attack and see through it. You can change who is allowed at will. Fire-?(not sure, only things I can think of is cause damage, but that would invalidate structures; or produce illumination, but that wouldn't be as good as the rest) Water- You can spend a standard action to move any number of blocks 5 feet. Earth- Has hardness and hit point per inch of adamantine. Undead- can cast animate undead, but ability has a range of long instead of touch

This thing is mainly supposed to be a support class, although that doesn't mean you can't carry an army with you to do battle. It just doesn't really help you attack directly.

[DavidWL]

Could a swarm shifter take Titantic Ceature?  How would that work?

Thanks,
David