Author Topic: Courtroom Reviews: Way of the Wicked Book One: Knot of Thorns  (Read 37519 times)

Offline Libertad

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Re: Courtroom Reviews: Way of the Wicked Book One: Knot of Thorns
« Reply #20 on: March 30, 2013, 01:39:05 PM »
@betrayor:

Given Alenatorion's anti-religious views, do you think he'd be down on swearing allegiance?

@PsyBomb:

Chaotic Evil alignment is not allowed.  Lawful Evil and Neutral Evil are the preferred alignments, although Lawful Neutral and Neutral are acceptable as long as they're not the majority.

I can't really blame the author for this, as "Chaotic Evil" is Stupid Evil as per RAW in 3.P, and thus especially common to the pitfalls listed above.

Quote
A chaotic evil character does what his greed, hatred, and lust for destruction drive him to do. He is vicious, arbitrarily violent, and unpredictable. If he is simply out for whatever he can get, he is ruthless and brutal. If he is committed to the spread of evil and chaos, he is even worse. Thankfully, his plans are haphazard, and any groups he joins or forms are likely to be poorly organized. Typically, chaotic evil people can be made to work together only by force, and their leader lasts only as long as he can thwart attempts to topple or assassinate him.

Chaotic evil represents the destruction not only of beauty and life, but also of the order on which beauty and life depend.

So he's always wanted to join the guard, but one bad incident landed him in prison?  Is that enough to make him want to join Cardinal Thorn's cause and destroy his home nation?

I know that sometimes all it takes is "one bad day," but it seems like quite a leap.  The feeling I'm getting from character creation is that the PCs are condemned in more ways than one.  They have no other allies who'll be dedicated enough to try and free them, they can't go back to their normal lives, they committed crimes which would make them permanently forsaken by the nation and church.
« Last Edit: March 30, 2013, 02:33:05 PM by Libertad »

Offline Prime32

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Re: Courtroom Reviews: Way of the Wicked Book One: Knot of Thorns
« Reply #21 on: March 30, 2013, 01:40:53 PM »
@Prime32: I looked up the Dervish of Dawn.  The must worship a god of the sun.  Aside from Asmodeus and Mitra, information on other deities is left blank in the campaign setting (for maximum ability to insert it into existing settings).  And Mitra's already the sun god.

What exactly did you have in mind for this archetype?  I don't mind making an exception for the Dervish's case.
Either the sun god part is ignored, or he practices an older version of the faith where Mitra was regarded as a more wrathful figure (in which case he qualifies for the Blasphemy crime as well).

Quote
Chain Fighter: Some half-orcs have escaped from slavery and reforged the chains of their imprisonment into deadly weapons. Half-orcs with this racial trait are proficient with flails and heavy flails,

Seriously? They make you spend a trait on "chains"and it doesn't even give proficiency with spiked chains? Wow, pathfinder sucks.
Spiked chains don't have reach in PF. The closest you'll get are Dorn-dergars (martial for dwarves, exotic for everyone else) with the Darting Viper feat.

Offline Libertad

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Re: Courtroom Reviews: Way of the Wicked Book One: Knot of Thorns
« Reply #22 on: March 30, 2013, 01:45:53 PM »
I don't think Thorn and his Knots will ever trust a Mitraite, even one who practices a more "wrathful" interpretation of his religion.  That religious requirement's ignored, then.

We're up to 6 sample PCs.  Should I put things to a vote, now?  Or wait a little longer?

Although our primary purpose is to judge the adventure's sustainability in an evil party (and DMs can't always choose exactly the PCs they want), I'll choose the 4 I want myself and get on with the review after a 2 day deadline.

Edit: I'll wait one more day for people to submit additional characters, then the day after I'll create a poll which closes in 24 hours.
« Last Edit: March 30, 2013, 02:47:34 PM by Libertad »

Offline Raineh Daze

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Re: Courtroom Reviews: Way of the Wicked Book One: Knot of Thorns
« Reply #23 on: March 30, 2013, 03:16:30 PM »
Blasphemy leads to rejection of authority leads to murder. Ah, the beauty of hubris. XD

Offline betrayor

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Re: Courtroom Reviews: Way of the Wicked Book One: Knot of Thorns
« Reply #24 on: March 30, 2013, 03:30:39 PM »
Alenatorion is a practical man,he understands that his best bet is to join forces with Cardinal's Thorn cause,
so yes he will swear allegiance and stay faithful at least untill the goal of bringing down the pantheon is met,
what will happen afterwards is totally another tale.....

Offline Raineh Daze

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Re: Courtroom Reviews: Way of the Wicked Book One: Knot of Thorns
« Reply #25 on: March 30, 2013, 03:35:54 PM »
Are you trying to make the third problem with evil campaigns actually happen? Because someone only paying lip service to a cause and actively seeking to tear it down seems like a good way to make sure it happens. :huh

Offline betrayor

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Re: Courtroom Reviews: Way of the Wicked Book One: Knot of Thorns
« Reply #26 on: March 30, 2013, 03:47:54 PM »
Are you trying to make the third problem with evil campaigns actually happen? Because someone only paying lip service to a cause and actively seeking to tear it down seems like a good way to make sure it happens. :huh
No.no he will give his all until the nation and its pantheon is brought down,that is his cause,
what I am saying is that he does not have more plans for after that happens,
don't forget Asmodeus is not a member of the pantheon that he hates so while he is a god
he is not one of his enemies......

Offline PsyBomb

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Re: Courtroom Reviews: Way of the Wicked Book One: Knot of Thorns
« Reply #27 on: March 30, 2013, 03:56:20 PM »
Ah, didn't realize that about PF alignment. NE works well for him. I was thinking more on that anger issue for his motivation, he lashes out at those who he sees as wronging him and keeps doing so. Holds a grudge until it dies. I'll edit that in

Offline Prime32

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Re: Courtroom Reviews: Way of the Wicked Book One: Knot of Thorns
« Reply #28 on: March 30, 2013, 04:36:44 PM »
Ah, didn't realize that about PF alignment.
It's not a PF thing, it's in the Player Guide for this.

You can play a Chaotic Evil character as a Social Darwinist, or as a creepy guy who constantly complains about his boss not letting him do "the fun stuff" but isn't stupid enough to defy him, but yeah, it's the alignment most likely to cause problems.
« Last Edit: March 30, 2013, 04:48:14 PM by Prime32 »

Offline Libertad

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Re: Courtroom Reviews: Way of the Wicked Book One: Knot of Thorns
« Reply #29 on: March 30, 2013, 06:05:14 PM »
@betrayor: It's implied that Asmodeus and Mitra belong to the same pantheon of gods.  So instead of swearing vengeance upon "all gods," Alenatorion could be just angry at Mitra specifically.  Worship of other gods isn't really done anymore in Talingarde (I only have the first two books, but it's hinted at that the church burned the books of many dissenters during the Asmodean purges).

Offline betrayor

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Re: Courtroom Reviews: Way of the Wicked Book One: Knot of Thorns
« Reply #30 on: March 30, 2013, 07:24:51 PM »
@betrayor: It's implied that Asmodeus and Mitra belong to the same pantheon of gods.  So instead of swearing vengeance upon "all gods," Alenatorion could be just angry at Mitra specifically.  Worship of other gods isn't really done anymore in Talingarde (I only have the first two books, but it's hinted at that the church burned the books of many dissenters during the Asmodean purges).
Oh,well...
The concept of the character is that clerics of the city's gods refused to help his family,
if there  are only clerics of Mitra in Talingarde then his hatred  should be focused on her......

Offline Libertad

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Re: Courtroom Reviews: Way of the Wicked Book One: Knot of Thorns
« Reply #31 on: March 30, 2013, 08:17:49 PM »
Oh,well...
The concept of the character is that clerics of the city's gods refused to help his family,
if there  are only clerics of Mitra in Talingarde then his hatred  should be focused on her......

There are clerics of other deities, but they're at the fringes of society.  I left it relatively undetailed in case some guy wants to worship Loviator or something.

Alenatorian's backstory fits perfectly, then.  He'll get plenty of opportunity for vengeance!

BTW, I made a poll.  Vote for your top 4 party members to be in the Review!

Voting closes in 24 hours!
« Last Edit: March 30, 2013, 08:29:59 PM by Libertad »

Offline Chrononaut

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Re: Courtroom Reviews: Way of the Wicked Book One: Knot of Thorns
« Reply #32 on: March 31, 2013, 12:13:57 AM »
Technically Wayland is up there for Heresy (defying the commandments of Mithra's Clergy), Consorting with dark powers and attempted murder (to stop keep the ritual going), they just stuck him with the most provable crime. :P

Offline Raineh Daze

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Re: Courtroom Reviews: Way of the Wicked Book One: Knot of Thorns
« Reply #33 on: March 31, 2013, 08:23:00 AM »
How is heresy getting into it? :O

Offline Soft Insanity

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Re: Courtroom Reviews: Way of the Wicked Book One: Knot of Thorns
« Reply #34 on: March 31, 2013, 09:51:47 AM »
I play this adventure path.  Currently the party has escaped the prison.  Obviously my guy is OP, but the rest of the party is grateful for it since it's the only reason we manage to survive encounters currently.

Name: Caneletto

Race: Half Elf (ancenstral arms variant, magical training variant)

Class: Synthesist (biped eidolon, 2 claws, improved nat armor x1, ability increase con, reach)

Crime: Consorting with the Dark Powers (his eidolon)

Personality: Caneletto is a depraved psychopath, but not by choice.  Obviously under the control of Asmodeus, he bears his mark on his face.  This mark links him to the skin of evil known only as Artim, a bastardization of Mitra.

Background: The term "Caneletto" is Infernal for evil, a name given to Vastenus Barca's half elf son. Mika Barcason was his name originally, and he's a secret bastard.  It was soon revealed the child was wicked in a way.  He bore the mysterious mark on his face, later discovered to be the mark of Asmodeus.  This was all well and good since his mother was a worshiper of Asmodeus.  She was able to keep this secret until her death mere weeks ago.  It was at this time that Caneletto earned his name by becoming possessed by the skin of evil (Artim).  This lead him on a murderous rampage.  Called "The Night of the Eyeless", Caneletto's skin of evil ate the eyes of all his victims (43 people in total).  The eyes are the window to the soul they say...and are also really tasty according to Artim.

Caneletto is a half elf of surprising beauty.  His medium length black hair, and piercing eyes are very noticable, but not as much as his eidolon mark.  The mark looks like black tears from his eyes and glow with an eerie black light.

Alignment: chaotic evil (played non-dickish)

Quotes:
"The eyes, so delicious." (he managed to eat all the eyes of the fallen enemies, yummy!)

"It's not safe in here." -said to enemies...often.

Offline Chrononaut

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Re: Courtroom Reviews: Way of the Wicked Book One: Knot of Thorns
« Reply #35 on: March 31, 2013, 12:01:33 PM »
How is heresy getting into it? :O

His cooking is heretically delicious!

Actually it's convincing other people to try what he did to get loved ones back, which the church decided to peg on him.

Offline Raineh Daze

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Re: Courtroom Reviews: Way of the Wicked Book One: Knot of Thorns
« Reply #36 on: March 31, 2013, 12:12:30 PM »
Blasphemy, not heresy. Unless he's a worshipper of Mitra and preaching that, at least. :p


Ah, characters picked.


... also, why genderswapped Accelerator? How is that judgement-related? :lmao
« Last Edit: March 31, 2013, 08:48:41 PM by Raineh Daze »

Offline Libertad

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Re: Courtroom Reviews: Way of the Wicked Book One: Knot of Thorns
« Reply #37 on: March 31, 2013, 09:39:37 PM »
... also, why genderswapped Accelerator? How is that judgement-related? :lmao

It's not.  I just like the avatar.

Part One: Branderscar's Most Wanted

The adventure is separated into four major acts.  Act One is when the PCs start out in the notorious Branderscar Prison, only to break out with the help of one of Cardinal Thorn's minions.  Act Two is when the PCs make their way to Thorn's hideout and join his organization as the newest Ninth Knot.  After surviving a taxing training program under him, they're sent on their first mission to smuggle a weapons shipment to the bugbear tribes of the north.  Act Four is when they must sabotage the impenetrable Watchwall to help the monstrous hordes get through to ravage Talingarde.

The adventure path overall can be railroady at times (especially in the first book), but certain points allow for more initiative and freedom for the PCs.  There are several ways for the PCs to break out of Branderscar, or sabotage the Watchwall.  Surprisingly, it is not imperative that the Ninth Knot succeeds at all their major missions.  Even if the bugbear horde is repelled, it's hinted at that the adventure still goes forth in Book Two, albeit with consequences.

The Book itself opens up with an Introduction by Gary McBride, explaining his decision and inspiration to make an evil campaign.  Short answer: being the bad guy for a change can be fun!  With proper foresight and preparation, a series of sessions with evil PCs can be well-done and satisfying without falling into common pitfalls of evil games, and the adventure path sets out to do just that!  We'll see in due time if it's successful...

Act One: Prison Break

Thea adventure opens up with the PCs being escorted to prison:

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In the kingdom of Talingarde, many crimes may send you to Branderscar Prison, but the sentence has but one meaning. You are wicked and irredeemable. Each of you received the same greeting when you arrived. You were held down by rough hands and branded upon the arm with a runic F. The mark signifies ‘forsaken’ and the painful scar is indelible proof that each of you has betrayed the great and eternal love of Mitra and his chosen mortal vassals.

Condemned, you face at best a life of shackles and servitude in the nearby salt mines. Others might await the “gentle” ministrations of the inquisitors so that co-conspirators may be revealed and confessions extracted. Perhaps, some of you will be spared this ordeal. Perhaps instead you have come to Branderscar to face the final judgment. In three days, the executioner arrives and the axe falls or the pyre will be lit.  Through fire or steel, your crimes will be answered.

You have all been chained together in the same communal cell dressed in nothing but filthy, tattered rags.  Manhandled and mistreated, any finery you once possessed is either ruined or long lost. No special treatment has been given any prisoner – male or female, commoner or noble – all of the forsaken are bound and imprisoned together. Your feet are secured by iron cuffs tethered by one long chain. Your arms are secured to the wall above by manacles. A guard is posted right outside the cell day and night.  Little thought is given to long term accommodations. At Branderscar, justice comes swift and sure.

Escape seems hopeless. You have all been well searched and every attempt to conceal anything on your person has failed. And if you could somehow slip your bonds and fly out of this prison, where would you go? Who from your former life would want anything to do with the forsaken?  Despised, alone and shackled – all that you can do now is await your doom.

Trying to find an incentive for the PCs to work together is one of the first obstacles a group must overcome.  When it comes to evil PCs, one must ask how the band of miscreants would forge and maintain this relationship.  Instead of the typical "you all meet in a bar/are hired for a job," the PCs are captured and imprisoned for crimes they're guilty of.  They will most certainly die if they don't escape, and they can't just go back to their normal lives even if they do.  Good or evil, survival is a powerful precedent.  This is a good way of getting a bunch of evil PCs together.  Just don't overuse the "you start in prison" sthick, as it can get quite old!

Quote

In-character dialogue:

Well, the voting results are in.  Let's see who's on death row:

Two humans, a half-elf, and an orc all share a cell and are manacled to the wall.  The orc looks over to one of the other prisoners, the young female human.  "What are you in for?" he asks in an accented Common.

The woman looks up, as though interrupted from a trance.  Even in the uncomfortable shackles her muscles looked relaxed.  "My name is Rachel Serule," she says.  "Apparently scratching the edifice of a piece of sculpted stone is equivalent to black magic and devil worship in the eyes of Mitra.  The bastards came to haul me off, and one thing led to another and a guard died."

The orc shook his head.  "That's crazy.  Pung thrown in here for relieving oneself; humans have the craziest laws!"

Rachel made a face of disgust.  "It's not my fault, really; if the holiest deity cannot protect his own icons, then I don't think he deserves such devotion.  Same for the guards who wouldn't stop provoking me."

The conversation piqued the half-elf's interest.  He appeared far older than the other three, the equivalent of his 50s in human years.  "I find both your stories hard to believe," he said in a low tone.  "Branderscar is not home to vandals or drunks, but the most dangerous of Talingarde.  Even the hard-nosed paladins wouldn't have put you here unless they perceived you to be a dire threat."

"Pung took out entire city block on the way to the water closet.  I guess it makes sense, now that I think about it."

"The statue was a holy image of Mitra himself," Rachel said.  "I just don't have the best history with the church, okay?  What about you, elf?  Who are you, and what's your crime?"

"The name's Wayland.  My daughter died from the plague; the clerics could not do anything, she was too far gone."  Wayland's face turned away.  "I used magic to see her again, magic deemed forbidden by the church.  I only hope that she's happy, wherever she is now."

The last human, a young redhaired man with a goatee spoke up.  "This is all evidence of Talingarde's decline.  Understandable, rational expressions of humanoid nature, declared crimes most foul!  Even in the days of old, when the druids ran wild and the magic missile was the epitome of arcane progress, magistrates had the good sense to tolerate certain... excesses."

Everybody else turned to face him.  "Why are you looking at me like that?" he said, confused.  "Crime?  Oh, it was nothing much.  Just killed a guy."

The PCs start out with no equipment save for filthy rags.  Wizards don't have their spellbooks, alchemists their formulas, clerics their holy symbols, etc.  Even Wayland has no access to his Eidolon, and must perform the ritual to access him again.  However, spontaneous casters still have their magic spells and slots, and the prepared casters have their assortment of spells in advance.  But without material components and restricted movement, they can't do anything.  This actually gives sorcerers an edge, who have Eschew Materials for free.

Fortunately we don't have to wait long for a prison break, as Sergeant Blackerly, the bastard who oversaw the PCs branding, summons a single PC (let's say Rachel) to meet with a visitor, a mysterious woman named Tiadora.  After feigning sadness, she slips her veil into the PC's rags and mentions that she charmed the guard, before giving them instructions to a house on the outskirts of town when they escape.  The veil is magic and can retrieve useful items with a pull of a string.  After being sent back to the cell, it's up to Rachel now to use what Tiadora gave her.

The PCs get minimal equipment, enough to break out of their cell cast spells and some basic adventuring gear.  Despite its fearsome reputation, Sergeant Blackerly's corruption of skimming off the top of prison funds made Branderscar suffer security-wise.  Not all of the guards are awake, or sober, and the locks are low-quality enough that even someone untrained can open them with no chance of breaking the tools.  The PCs have the opportunity to explore the prison further, and multiple ways to escape.  They can help free Grumblejack, an imprisoned orge to cause a distraction or help them fight, poison the kitchen food with belladonna found in the garden or Blackerly's batch of 'medicine' he keeps in his office, sneak out via wagon, or even scale down the privy into the cliffside below (the prison is on an imposing cliff surrounded by seawater)!

Given Emberscribe and Rachel's Stealth skill, Wayland's minor summons as a distraction, and Pung's brawn, overpowering and outsmarting individual patrols of guards should be little to no trouble.

However they escape, the PCs will need to keep a low cover and cross the moors.  Even if they brave the trackless swamps, a 1,000 gp bounty, regular checkpoints stationed by troops, and patrols of knights make ever day a fight for survival.  The only lead they have is Tiadora's directions.

This is sort of rail-roading.  But Tiadora's directions are the only hook they have, and the PCs should be curious at least as to who helped save them.

Next time: Act 2

The progress so far: It's a good start for an evil campaign.  The PCs must rely upon each other to escape, and the minimum security and ogre ally can help increase surviveability.  Since experience is awarded for bypassing guards as well as subduing them, sneaky archetypes are well-rewarded.  The patrols for prisoners on the run are a more subtle form of rail-roading, as it's short of legions of armies and impenetrable magic walls; PCs can still sneak by them, but the increasingly persistent hunt gives a nice build-up of desperation.
« Last Edit: March 31, 2013, 10:18:51 PM by Libertad »

Offline Raineh Daze

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Re: Courtroom Reviews: Way of the Wicked Book One: Knot of Thorns
« Reply #38 on: March 31, 2013, 09:48:22 PM »
Well, the dialogue in this is at least going to be hilarious. We have two people that sound like they've swallowed books, someone too dense to know better, and someone seemingly quite normal aside from the turning his daughter into an abomination of nature thing. XD

I think the monk is still semi-competent even unarmed. No flurry of blows without a bow, but I don't think unarmed abilities have been hampered in any way, let alone the AC bonus. @_@
« Last Edit: March 31, 2013, 09:53:14 PM by Raineh Daze »

Offline Libertad

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Re: Courtroom Reviews: Way of the Wicked Book One: Knot of Thorns
« Reply #39 on: March 31, 2013, 10:15:39 PM »
I've been updating the previous post as I add more stuff.  Soon I'll write up Act 2.

Vengeance-minded PCs have the opportunity to loot the prison for valuables and kill the son of a bitch who branded them, although they'll need to go out of their way to do so.

Also, escaped PCs have the opportunity to meet with an animal companion or familiar, who will lead them to the house Tiadora told them about.  It's an imposing walled building with a single lantern at the top, a signal for them.

This is a neat touch for spellcasting PCs which ties into the story relatively seamlessly.  Might be a good time for the party to meet Wayland's daughter. :plotting

Quote
In-character dialogue

After a long trek through the swamps and a run-in with a dire toad, the escaped convicts notice a serpentine humanoid swimming in the water.  Pung readies his battleaxe found in the prison armory, Rachel a similarly acquired bow.  Only Wayland seems unperturbed by the arrival of the monster.

"Do not attack her!" he exclaims.  "We are among friendly company!"  He walks up to the creature and embraces it warmly.  "Don't worry, Ellen, your father's here.  Oh, I hope you're not too scared."

Ellen responds with a wailing cry.

Emberscribe takes a reflexive step back behind Grumblejack, contemplating what powers the elf consorted with to produce this creature.  He hid his distaste using the ancient bardic secret known as 'acting.'

"She says that she was found by a man who knew we would escape.  He can provide us with safe passage from the patrols.

"How do you know we can trust her?" Rachel asked.

"My own daughter has no reason to betray me.  And I don't hazard a guess that fumbling around in the dark will help us hide from Talingarde's knights."

"It's obvious that somebody's concerned about our well-being," Emberscribe said.  "We wouldn't want to earn his ire by arriving late now, hmmm?"

« Last Edit: March 31, 2013, 10:33:49 PM by Libertad »