Author Topic: Need Help withNew character.  (Read 5037 times)

Offline Keikat

  • Lurker
  • *
  • Posts: 16
  • I'm new!
    • View Profile
Need Help withNew character.
« on: April 04, 2013, 06:52:43 PM »
So me and a few friends and making a campaign, faerun if you need to ask and desert located(most of it), and we are opening a lot of the 3.5 official books, eberron isn't open much, we are starting level 5. And well..I'm thinking of doing a melee class, but my thing is I wanna be a monster, yes it allowed but also.. my char is going to be a female and I want it to be fierce yet not ugly as a cow, and I can have LA +4 or some kind of race/class progression so I'm here to ask about some opinion for races and classes.

Offline Raineh Daze

  • Epic Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 10577
  • hi
    • View Profile
Re: Need Help withNew character.
« Reply #1 on: April 04, 2013, 07:08:14 PM »
Homebrew allowed or not? If it is, that would make things much easier.

Offline Concerned Ninja Citizen

  • Legendary Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1578
  • I am Concerned
    • View Profile
Re: Need Help withNew character.
« Reply #2 on: April 04, 2013, 07:19:53 PM »
When you say you "can have" LA +4 does that mean you get that much LA free or that you can take as much as 4 LA because it's a lv5 game.

If the latter, in case you weren't already aware of this, DO NOT try to play a lv1 character with 4 LA in a party of lv5s. That will not end well.

Assuming you aren't getting free LA, is LA buyoff allowed?

Anyway, one of the things that comes to mind when someone says "desert" and "monster PC" is the Marrulurk, from pg170 of Sandstorm. It's +1 LA, 3 racial HD, so you'll only get one class level. However, you get racial abilities that are solidly as good as 3 levels of Rogue (including 2d6 sneak attack) and ability bonuses that are well worth the +1LA, esp if you can buy it off.

I don't know if a sneak attacker type qualifies as "melee" or if "Jackal person" is what you were after monster wise but it's definitely one of the better deals for a player looking to run a monster in a campaign.

Attractiveness wise, you get +4 Cha so presumably you're not ugly. 

One thing you could do with Marrulurk, if you want to be more frontline melee than sneaky type, is take your one class level in Swashbuckler and go for Daring Outlaw at lv6. Assuming you can get your DM to allow "marrulurk HD" to count as "rogue levels" for the purposes of the feat, that will give you full BAB and full sneak attack.

Whether that's a viable thing to do or not depends on your party. What is the optimization level like, what are other people planning to play?
« Last Edit: April 04, 2013, 07:32:19 PM by Concerned Ninja Citizen »

Offline Keikat

  • Lurker
  • *
  • Posts: 16
  • I'm new!
    • View Profile
Re: Need Help withNew character.
« Reply #3 on: April 04, 2013, 07:37:47 PM »
No, homebrew is not allowed and I looked at the marrulurk..im not really those kind of fighters..im the imposing type the one that comes armed armored.

Offline Concerned Ninja Citizen

  • Legendary Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1578
  • I am Concerned
    • View Profile
Re: Need Help withNew character.
« Reply #4 on: April 04, 2013, 08:04:01 PM »
Ok, so what sort of monster race are you looking for and what class did you want to pair it with?

If your DM allows the Lesser Planetouched variant from Player's Guide to Faerun, Lesser Aasimar or Tiefling and 1 level of the half celestial/fiend Transition Class gets you favorable ability bonuses, some resistances, immunities and spell like abilities.

Tiefling/Fiend would make a good Duskblade or other Gish build. Aasimar/Celestial would be a good melee Cleric (or Paladin if you prefer.)

If you want less outsidery and more savage beasty, the Feral Template from Savage Species is excellent if allowed. The Anthropomorphic Animals, also from SS have some potential. The Ape has 2 racial HD but no LA so you'll have the same number of "levels" as the rest of the party.

Offline Jackinthegreen

  • DnD Handbook Writer
  • ****
  • Posts: 6176
  • I like green.
    • View Profile
Re: Need Help withNew character.
« Reply #5 on: April 04, 2013, 08:39:28 PM »
If Tome of Battle is allowed, you might get some mileage out of http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=12015.0

I don't expect you'll be able to use the Aptitude enhancement to use Boomerang Daze or Ricochet, but if you're into big imposing types it can really smack things around.  Half-ogre is 2 LA (Races of Destiny version) and you could add Feral onto that, then perhaps Mineral Warrior, assuming you don't mind the massive Charisma dump.

If the LA is free you could try a lycanthrope and go into the Warshaper class from Complete Warrior.

Just don't try a purely "tank" build that focuses on HP, saves, and AC because then you'd just be a turtle and not a threat.  Best to go with strategies like Knockdown and such to keep opponents down.

Hmm...  How "feminine" do you want your character to be?  Monster and female can be at odds, but can also go well together.
« Last Edit: April 04, 2013, 09:24:03 PM by Jackinthegreen »

Offline Maat Mons

  • DnD Handbook Writer
  • ****
  • Posts: 1203
  • What is a smile but a grimace of happiness?
    • View Profile
Re: Need Help withNew character.
« Reply #6 on: April 04, 2013, 09:40:13 PM »
… you'd just be a turtle …

Oh, he could play as a tortle.  They're from Dragon 315, page 73. 



It's not a bad race; they're +0 LA.  The ability adjustments are -2 dex, +2 con, +2 wis, and -2 cha.  You get a natural armor bonus of +3.  You also get endurance as a bonus feat, which is nice if you're interested in steadfast determination (Player's Handbook II, p83).  The race's major flaw is having a land speed of 20 feet. 

Offline SolEiji

  • Epic Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 3045
  • I am 120% Eiji.
    • View Profile
    • D&D Wiki.org, not .com
Re: Need Help withNew character.
« Reply #7 on: April 04, 2013, 10:12:50 PM »
What is this... thing of wonder.

I must play it.  And make it a ninja.  Yes.....
Mudada.

Offline Nytemare3701

  • DnD Handbook Writer
  • ****
  • Posts: 1657
  • 50% Cripple, 50% Awesome. Flip a coin.
    • View Profile
Re: Need Help withNew character.
« Reply #8 on: April 05, 2013, 10:37:01 PM »
What is this... thing of wonder.

I must play it.  And make it a ninja.  Yes.....

Young Spellwarped Iajutsu Tortle.

Offline Keikat

  • Lurker
  • *
  • Posts: 16
  • I'm new!
    • View Profile
Re: Need Help withNew character.
« Reply #9 on: April 06, 2013, 12:26:36 AM »
So..a couple of friends suggested this: Goliath(powerful build) + Monkey's Grip + Balanced weapon(arms and equipment guide) and from what we arrives..was that i could weird a gargantuan sized weapon. Now seeing as my DM will allow it.. I'm going to need a class..something that can tank or melee controller

Offline Jackinthegreen

  • DnD Handbook Writer
  • ****
  • Posts: 6176
  • I like green.
    • View Profile
Re: Need Help withNew character.
« Reply #10 on: April 06, 2013, 01:08:24 AM »
Goliath and Monkey Grip technically don't stack because they are both "one size larger than your current size."  A Goliath is still a Medium creature.  If you were to play a Goliath barbarian with the Mountain Rage ACF though, you could use Monkey Grip because now the Goliath has become Large and lost Powerful Build.  Assuming you were using a greatsword, the goliath would normally have a large one which is 3d6, and going up to huge would be 4d6.  That's only, on average, a +3.5 bonus to weapon damage for the price of -2 on attacks.  On average that's worse than Power Attack's returns with a 2H weapon.

The Balanced property uses the 3.0 weapon size rules which means you'd have to update the enhancement to 3.5 weapons.  Since it only works on one-handed weapons though, you'll likely have a problem because I expect you'll want to use the weapon 2-handed to get proper damage out of it through Strength and perhaps Power Attack.  The only way you're going to do decent damage with a one-handed weapon is if you have extra damage dice (like Sneak Attack) or you're a Martial Adept from Tome of Battle and are using maneuvers.

In place of Balanced, which is a +2 enhancement, I'd recommend Collision from MiC page 31 instead.  It's likewise a +2 enhancement, and it simply adds +5 to the weapon's damage.  It's often better than getting a larger weapon.

If, in talking with your DM, you are able to use a Gargantuan weapon, and Balanced is ruled to allow simply using any weapon one size larger than you can normally wield, then it might be worthwhile.  A Huge greatsword deals 4d6 damage, while a Gargantuan one deals 6d6, an average improvement of 7 points which is larger than Collision's 5.

Crusader (from Tome of Battle) works very well for tanking/controller/lockdown.  Regarding its maneuvers, I recommend making some cards and just using those for the granted maneuver mechanic.

If you're not able to use Tome of Battle, then you'll likely go into some combo of fighter and perhaps barbarian, and maybe even Psychic Warrior.

The reason for fighter is because you're going to need feats to control things.  Knockback is a great feat in conjunction with Shock Trooper.

Barbarian can get you some great stuff.  There's the Mountain Rage ACF for Goliaths which makes you Large when you rage and grants a +6 strength boost instead of a normal rage's +4.  The Lion Spirit Totem allows you to trade Fast Movement for the ability to Pounce (which is make a full attack on a charge).  There's also the Wolf Totem barbarian which gets Improved Trip for free in place of Uncanny Dodge.  Improved Trip leads into Knockdown which is definitely awesome.

Combine Knockback, Knockdown, and Shock Trooper, and you're a melee monster.

If you want to take advantage of reach (you do want to hit things and not let them hit you, right?) then you're going to need a reach weapon.  A guisarme is probably the best martial reach weapon, and then you can wear armor spikes to shore up the adjacent squares to you.  A spiked chain of course lets you attack at natural reach and extended reach with the same weapon and is regarded as one of the only exotic weapons worth the feat to use it.

Psychic Warrior was mentioned because it gets the Expansion power, which works on Goliaths (unlike Enlarge person, which works only humanoids and leaves Monstrous Humanoids like the Goliath out of luck).  Lots of extra reach there which will allow you to control things.  And it gets some fighter feats too, so you could still do the combo of Knockback, Knockdown, and Shock Trooper though it'd be later than straight fighter.

Can you give us specifics though?  Do you know what kind of tank or controller you'd like to try?  What books are available to you?

Offline Keikat

  • Lurker
  • *
  • Posts: 16
  • I'm new!
    • View Profile
Re: Need Help withNew character.
« Reply #11 on: April 06, 2013, 12:06:52 PM »
well..what i mean by controller and tank is someone that keeps the creatures on him while keeping them away from the party.

Offline Jackinthegreen

  • DnD Handbook Writer
  • ****
  • Posts: 6176
  • I like green.
    • View Profile
Re: Need Help withNew character.
« Reply #12 on: April 06, 2013, 03:44:27 PM »
There are no reliable taunt mechanics in D&D 3.X except maybe a couple spells.  The best way you're going to get something on you is to really piss it off and make yourself a big target.

Again, what books are allowed, if you know?  That'll determine what kind of advice we can give you.

Although, I'm pretty sure if you went the Goliath knockback/knockdown/shock trooper route you'd make yourself a big target.  You can trip stuff which will prevent it from easily attacking your party, and you can bull rush it away too which will further prevent a lot of monsters from doing their thing.

There's also the possibility of going into the Knight class from PHB2 for 3 levels to get the Bulwark of Defense ability, and then picking up the Stand Still feat.  Don't bother with any of the Knight's Challenge abilities because they absolutely suck.  Instead, once you get BoD you can go into Psychic Warrior so you can use Expansion and thus become larger so you can exert more control over stuff due to a larger area.  A spiked chain will probably be your best bet as a weapon.  You'll also need Combat Reflexes and if you're going with Expansion, you'll definitely need a good Dex score and a Dex-boosting item since Goliath will lower your Dex and Expansion will further lower it.

Do note that spellcasters make excellent battlefield control and can keep stuff away from the party.  (Evard's) Black Tentacles is an awesome spell for that task.  Slow is likewise effective.  And that's not even the tip of the iceberg for spells that'll hamper your opponents.

Keep in mind that D&D characters can not only keep enemies off their party, they can also keep monsters off themselves if they use their abilities right.

Offline Keikat

  • Lurker
  • *
  • Posts: 16
  • I'm new!
    • View Profile
Re: Need Help withNew character.
« Reply #13 on: April 06, 2013, 09:35:34 PM »
we are allowed to use anything in the DND tools, but we are trying to stay away from tome of battle, tome of magic and psionics.

Offline Concerned Ninja Citizen

  • Legendary Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1578
  • I am Concerned
    • View Profile
Re: Need Help withNew character.
« Reply #14 on: April 06, 2013, 10:22:49 PM »
The Goliath Barbarian build Jack outlines above is one of the best options you have to do what you're looking to do.

Monsterous Race: Goliath is a non Humanoid, they're big, scary looking, basically the next thing to giants.

Frontline melee tank: Full BAB, d12 HD, Con bonus, you should have no problem with this.

Controller: This is where the feats come in. Knockback+Knockdown = enemies pushed away and knocked prone. They'll have to spend a move action getting up, then another move action coming back over to you, at which point you rinse repeat. It's kinda like this only with no risk of falling off a cliff.

To make this happen you'll need these feats: Power Attack, Improved Bull Rush, Improved Trip (can skip the prereqs via Wolf Totem Barbarian), Knockback and Knockdown. Shock Trooper is the sweet crunchy candy coating but you'll have to wait a couple of levels since it requires BAB +6.

Except for Shock Trooper you can fit all those feats in by lv 4 (ECL 5 since you're LA +1.)

A feat and 2 flaws at first level (power attack, imp BR, Knockback), Imp Trip as a bonus at 2nd, Knockdown at 3rd.

That way you can go straight barbarian if you like. An alternative is to go Barbarian 2, Fighter 2 and take the Dungeon Crasher ACF from Dungeonscape. That will give you 4d6 extra damage on your bull rushes and an additional feat from Fighter 1. You can use that to get Extra Rage so you don't have to worry about taking more Barbarian levels, or put it into something else if you prefer.

This setup is compatible with the Balanced weapon property if your DM allows it but not really with Monkey Grip. You're already taking an attack penalty from Power Attack (until Shock Trooper shows up anyway) and you can't really spare the feat. The set of abilities you're getting from knockdown/back is considerably superior to what monkey grip does for you anyway.

Offline Rebel7284

  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 706
    • View Profile
Re: Need Help withNew character.
« Reply #15 on: April 06, 2013, 11:14:49 PM »
Pixie is one of the best +4 LA races and possibly can survive in a level 5 party. Doesn't seem like what you are going for though.

I mean, permanent invisibility...