Author Topic: Discussion and Suggestion Thread  (Read 224375 times)

Offline Nanshork

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Re: Discussion and Suggestion Thread
« Reply #620 on: September 09, 2012, 06:52:56 PM »
Yay, plans!   :D

Offline DonQuixote

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Re: Discussion and Suggestion Thread
« Reply #621 on: September 12, 2012, 07:31:10 PM »
Rewrote the Masked One fluff, to keep it consistent with certain things.

I've also finally finished coming up with feat ideas.  Those will presumably be written this weekend or some other time when I don't have to read an entire Shakespeare play in one night.

While you wait, you should totally check out Hanako's Akashic Magic subsystem, now that she's finally gotten around to posting it.  It's pretty much awesome in every way.
“Hast thou not felt in forest gloom, as gloaming falls on dark-some dells, when comes a whisper, hum and hiss; savage growling sounds a-near, dazzling flashes around thee flicker, whirring waxes and fills thine ears: has thou not felt then grisly horrors that grip thee and hold thee?”

Offline DonQuixote

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Re: Discussion and Suggestion Thread
« Reply #622 on: September 13, 2012, 01:33:27 PM »
Feats are up!

As a part of the massive feat compilation event, I have removed the feat posts from base class and race threads.  This means that everything is now all over the place and I don't know what to do.  I shall figure this out later, when I have finished running around like a chicken with my head cut off.

Edit: A little bit of cleaning up around the place.  Organization and what have you.  I'll probably clean up the spellshape champion fluff, eye everything to make sure that there's nothing egregiously wrong, then bundle up Chapter 3: Classes.  That'll probably be followed by the Introduction, then a cleaned up Chapter 4: Character Options.  Finally, we'll get around to Chapter 5: The Art of Spellshaping.  After I've done all that...it'll be time for circle revisions.
« Last Edit: September 13, 2012, 03:01:38 PM by DonQuixote »
“Hast thou not felt in forest gloom, as gloaming falls on dark-some dells, when comes a whisper, hum and hiss; savage growling sounds a-near, dazzling flashes around thee flicker, whirring waxes and fills thine ears: has thou not felt then grisly horrors that grip thee and hold thee?”

Offline The-Mage-King

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Re: Discussion and Suggestion Thread
« Reply #623 on: September 13, 2012, 11:01:17 PM »
Awesome, Don!


Feel free to toss any of the stuff I've done for this in. Just credit me for my awesomeness.

:P


And yeah. Hit a block with my second Semi-Circle (as I call it).

Offline DonQuixote

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Re: Discussion and Suggestion Thread
« Reply #624 on: September 14, 2012, 09:15:15 AM »
Well, I haven't gotten to the prestige classes yet, but I was planning on putting the Translocation Adept in with the rest of the "main" prestige classes--with its semi-circle listed after the class description--and the Shaper of the Way in the "Martial Adepts and Spellshaping" appendix, which is also where I'm going to be moving the Edgewalker Knight and the Flamedancer.

On a related note, I have started compiling a Credits page for the revision.  The Credits pages in Codex I and Codex II, while appropriate at the time, don't really cover where we'll be with the revision.  This is what I have thus far for the "design" portion.  Note that I may end up rebranding the entries to more approximately rip off evoke the feeling of a 3.5 sourcebook.

(click to show/hide)

The "Design Team" entry refers to anyone who's actively written spellshaping material or significantly contributed to it.  Garryl, for instance, is on there because he's more or less responsible for the system not falling on its ass, while Hanako's there for all the ideas that I steal from her.

The "Consulting" entry is for everyone else who has provided suggestions or feedback.  I went through both threads for that one, pulling every name that posted meaningful feedback or commentary.

I should probably compile a list of playtesters, too.  Which is going to require actually reading all the posts in the spellshaping threads, as well as scanning the play-by-post boards. 



On the Semi-Circle front, how many of those do you anticipate writing?  This is more of an organizational question than anything else, since they're...unusual, from a rules perspective.  They're different enough that I don't think that they should be treated like the sixteen full circles, but I still have to figure out where to put them in the actual book.  Translocation formulae are easy--those will just be listed after the Translocation Adept's class features--but a feat-gated Semi-Circle is going to take some maneuvering.

I'm thinking that the Semi-Circles may end up being in the same appendix as the Flamespeaker and the Spellshot Marksman, with that being rebranded from "Variant Spellshaper Classes" to "Variant Spellshaping Material."  That's probably going to be the easiest way for me to handle this one, since it allows me to keep writing the main text without worrying about defining full circles and Semi-Circles separately.  It also gives you more time to actually write them up, so there's that, too.
« Last Edit: September 14, 2012, 12:53:10 PM by DonQuixote »
“Hast thou not felt in forest gloom, as gloaming falls on dark-some dells, when comes a whisper, hum and hiss; savage growling sounds a-near, dazzling flashes around thee flicker, whirring waxes and fills thine ears: has thou not felt then grisly horrors that grip thee and hold thee?”

Offline samnemath

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Re: Discussion and Suggestion Thread
« Reply #625 on: September 14, 2012, 10:10:35 AM »
Wow, I am in the credits! Twice! You can remove gparali, he is me.

I haven't managed to playtest your Spellshapers yet but there is someone in the GitP who wants to have a Spellshaper-only pbp game. I will put the link here in case someone wants to join. There are only a couple of people expessing interest for now.

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=255008

I also applied for a sandbox game. If the Dm accepts me I will be playing an Impulse Mage(going for Darkened One)//Malefactor focused on debuffing. If I get in I will be sure to tell you how it goes.
« Last Edit: September 14, 2012, 10:17:19 AM by samnemath »

Offline The-Mage-King

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Re: Discussion and Suggestion Thread
« Reply #626 on: September 14, 2012, 11:42:13 AM »
Well, I haven't gotten to the prestige classes yet, but I was planning on putting the Translocation Adept in with the rest of the "main" prestige classes--with its semi-circle listed after the class description--and the Shaper of the Way in the "Martial Adepts and Spellshaping" appendix, which is also where I'm going to be moving the Edgewalker Knight and the Flamedancer.

Seems reasonable. Note that I kinda was stuck with the lame name fo Shaper of the Way because.... I'm bad at naming things.  :P


Quote
(click to show/hide)

The "Design Team" entry refers to anyone who's actively written spellshaping material or significantly contributed to it.  Garryl, for instance, is on there because he's more or less responsible for the system not falling on its ass, while Hanako's there for all the ideas that I steal from her.

The "Consulting" entry is for everyone else who has provided suggestions or feedback.  I went through both threads for that one, pulling every name that posted meaningful feedback or commentary.

I should probably compile a list of playtesters, too.  Which is going to require actually reading all the posts in the spellshaping threads, as well as scanning the play-by-post boards. 

I iz usefuls!


 :P


Got someone playing a Spellshaper in a game I'm running on Giantitp. Since it's also serving as a testbed for my Sentai class...

Quote
On the Semi-Circle front, how many of those do you anticipate writing?  This is more of an organizational question than anything else, since they're...unusual, from a rules perspective.  They're different enough that I don't think that they should be treated like the sixteen full circles, but I still have to figure out where to put them in the actual book.  Translocation formulae are easy--those will just be listed after the Translocation Adept's class features--but a feat-gated Semi-Circle is going to take some maneuvering.

In the words of a wise man....

I HAVE NO IDEA!

Quote
I'm thinking that the Semi-Circles may end up being in the same appendix as the Flamespeaker and the Spellshot Marksman, with that being rebranded from "Variant Spellshaper Classes" to "Variant Spellshaping Material."  That's probably going to be the easiest way for me to handle this one, since it allows me to keep writing the main text without worrying about defining full circles and Semi-Circles separately.  It also gives you more time to actually write them up, so there's that, too.


Probably for the best. :/

Offline DonQuixote

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Re: Discussion and Suggestion Thread
« Reply #627 on: September 14, 2012, 12:52:54 PM »
Wow, I am in the credits! Twice! You can remove gparali, he is me.

Herf derf.  Gonna fix that...

I haven't managed to playtest your Spellshapers yet but there is someone in the GitP who wants to have a Spellshaper-only pbp game. I will put the link here in case someone wants to join. There are only a couple of people expessing interest for now.

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=255008

I also applied for a sandbox game. If the Dm accepts me I will be playing an Impulse Mage(going for Darkened One)//Malefactor focused on debuffing. If I get in I will be sure to tell you how it goes.

Hoh-hoh!  Thanks for the heads up--I'll have to keep an eye on these.







Seems reasonable. Note that I kinda was stuck with the lame name fo Shaper of the Way because.... I'm bad at naming things.  :P

I know your pain on that one.  Shaper of the Way isn't really all that bad, though--it's a good generic name for the generic theurge class.  I think it suits it.


I iz usefuls!


 :P


Got someone playing a Spellshaper in a game I'm running on Giantitp. Since it's also serving as a testbed for my Sentai class...

Indeed, usefuls is one of your many qualities!  Incidentally, I'll have to start spying on this player.

Quote
I'm thinking that the Semi-Circles may end up being in the same appendix as the Flamespeaker and the Spellshot Marksman, with that being rebranded from "Variant Spellshaper Classes" to "Variant Spellshaping Material."  That's probably going to be the easiest way for me to handle this one, since it allows me to keep writing the main text without worrying about defining full circles and Semi-Circles separately.  It also gives you more time to actually write them up, so there's that, too.

Probably for the best. :/

"Appendix One: Variant Spellshaping Material" is basically where I'm going to put the more specific or unusual things that doesn't necessarily fit in the simple text.  Think of it as the equivalent of Complete Arcane or Complete Mage--interesting additions, but not strictly necessary for playing the basic character concept.

The flamespeaker, for instance, is a very focused concept.  It wouldn't really sit well with me as one of the generic base classes because you can't really take it in too many directions.  By contrast, the spellshot marksman is literally a variant class--it was built off of the same basic chassis as the spellshape champion.  Having both listed among the base classes would feel a little redundant, and the spellshape champion fills a more common niche.

I'm actually hoping to be able to come up with a rich body of material for the various appendices, as I view them as expansions, not afterthoughts.  The primary reason for "Appendix Three: Other Traditions and Spellshaping" is that there are very interesting things that can be done by combining spellshaping and things like incarnum, binding, shadowcasting, and truenaming nothing else ever.  However, there may well be players who don't have access to certain books, and it would feel weird to have a bunch of material that can't be used.

The only reason that martial adepts get their own appendix outside of "Other Traditions and Spellshaping" is that the mechanical similarities have led to a unique sort of combination, which probably won't be possible with other subsystems.  In addition, there are certain ideas that I have that will be pretty specific to martial adepts, which will be easier to manage if I have their material listed separately.







On an entirely unrelated note, I'm thinking of slightly altering the format I use for alternative class features.  So many of the spellshaper ACFs offer multiple class features...and they're all currently jumbled together.  I was thinking of moving to something more like this:

(click to show/hide)

See, with such a simple change, how much clarity I am able to add?  What do you think, everyone?
“Hast thou not felt in forest gloom, as gloaming falls on dark-some dells, when comes a whisper, hum and hiss; savage growling sounds a-near, dazzling flashes around thee flicker, whirring waxes and fills thine ears: has thou not felt then grisly horrors that grip thee and hold thee?”

Offline Amechra

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Re: Discussion and Suggestion Thread
« Reply #628 on: September 14, 2012, 08:51:39 PM »
I like the new formatting!

And, considering that I'm in the credits, I feel the urge to write something for spellshaping.

If I can think of something partially elemental...

Wait, hold up. Brilliant idea!

No, that won't work...
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Offline radmelon

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Re: Discussion and Suggestion Thread
« Reply #629 on: September 15, 2012, 01:18:29 AM »
Wow, I feel somewhat honored to be mentioned, as I've done little more than lurk here since I first found this (astounding) project. I should note that the campaign I'm running IRL at the moment has no small amount of spellshaping in the setting, although none of the players are playing spellshapers.

Offline Sohala

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Re: Discussion and Suggestion Thread
« Reply #630 on: September 15, 2012, 01:49:38 AM »
I should probably compile a list of playtesters, too.  Which is going to require actually reading all the posts in the spellshaping threads, as well as scanning the play-by-post boards. 
I will be playing your Dragonheart Adept, 1-20 (that capstone), in The Open Sea. I also plan to take a single level of Sublime Shaper for another character, but there is a few levels to go; it is more for a better base than swordsage, but I have high hopes for Figment of Light, while Devouring Shadow's negative damage will provide healing for some undead minions.
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Offline VennDygrem

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Re: Discussion and Suggestion Thread
« Reply #631 on: September 16, 2012, 07:58:05 AM »
There are several of us playtesting in the High Arcana game. I'll be playing a Dragonheart Adept (along with the two levels of Oslecamo's Choker monster class). Originally I wanted to pair it with Impulse Mage for double-blasting most rounds, and rarely running out of formulae to shape, but DhA was far too tempting.

I know Phaedrus is also playing something with DhA, and Nanshork is playing an Elemental Adept on the same team as my Choker DhA.

Offline DonQuixote

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Re: Discussion and Suggestion Thread
« Reply #632 on: September 17, 2012, 01:18:19 PM »
Threw everyone who posted into the budding "Playtesters" section of the credits, then ran around for a bit and changed the format of most of the alternative class features.  Time to overhaul the descriptive text for the base classes...
“Hast thou not felt in forest gloom, as gloaming falls on dark-some dells, when comes a whisper, hum and hiss; savage growling sounds a-near, dazzling flashes around thee flicker, whirring waxes and fills thine ears: has thou not felt then grisly horrors that grip thee and hold thee?”

Offline Amechra

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Re: Discussion and Suggestion Thread
« Reply #633 on: September 17, 2012, 02:36:36 PM »
Yay for Jewish holidays!

Anyway, I do have to say... I playtested some stuff before Tome II came out, and... yeah.

None of what I can say would be relevant now.

EDIT: I'll be posting something... interesting though, in a bit.
« Last Edit: September 17, 2012, 02:39:58 PM by Amechra »
"There is happiness for those who accept their fate, there is glory for those that defy it."

"Now that everyone's so happy, this is probably a good time to tell you I ate your parents."

Offline Nanshork

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Re: Discussion and Suggestion Thread
« Reply #634 on: September 17, 2012, 02:44:49 PM »
Glad to see progress is being made swiftly.  Too tired to actually look at anything.  I'm in the middle of physically moving about fifty servers all by myself...

Offline DonQuixote

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Re: Discussion and Suggestion Thread
« Reply #635 on: September 17, 2012, 03:18:43 PM »
Yay for Jewish holidays!

Anyway, I do have to say... I playtested some stuff before Tome II came out, and... yeah.

None of what I can say would be relevant now.

Some things could still be relevant, depending on what they were.  Some formulae from the first iteration have persisted, and only lately have I noticed a few problems there.

EDIT: I'll be posting something... interesting though, in a bit.

This fills me with equal parts anticipation and alarm.



Glad to see progress is being made swiftly.  Too tired to actually look at anything.  I'm in the middle of physically moving about fifty servers all by myself...

Nothing really changed today.  All I did was mess with the formatting of the ACFs so that those that grant several class features actually do so explicitly.  Rather than having four or five abilities that are just lumped together into one mess, they're listed as separate class features.

Also, yeesh, that's a lot of servers to move.
“Hast thou not felt in forest gloom, as gloaming falls on dark-some dells, when comes a whisper, hum and hiss; savage growling sounds a-near, dazzling flashes around thee flicker, whirring waxes and fills thine ears: has thou not felt then grisly horrors that grip thee and hold thee?”

Offline Amechra

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Re: Discussion and Suggestion Thread
« Reply #636 on: September 17, 2012, 03:42:47 PM »
Alright, I was building a Darkened One, and I noticed a couple things.

Namely, that when you are pursuing that kind of path (I was a Spellsage, race not important, since it was a homebrew race for my DM's homebrew setting), you tend to not have a lot of low-level Glimmering Moon formulae that are very enticing.

I basically ended up spending half of the first fight invisible, after the zombies that we were fighting chewed through my mirror images.

And I was kinda limited in what I could do, because I had to route my formulae through moonflare, which I could do once an encounter.

The race I was playing (and which an ally was playing as well) healed from negative energy, which was a good thing.

But that was more of a building error on my part (I forgot how much my DM loves the undead :shrug)

But that game fell apart because no one could make it to subsequent sessions.
"There is happiness for those who accept their fate, there is glory for those that defy it."

"Now that everyone's so happy, this is probably a good time to tell you I ate your parents."

Offline Nanshork

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Re: Discussion and Suggestion Thread
« Reply #637 on: September 17, 2012, 04:34:10 PM »
Yes, yes it is.

Oh, and progress is being made towards a "final" polished product.  Good editing is important!

Offline DonQuixote

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Re: Discussion and Suggestion Thread
« Reply #638 on: September 24, 2012, 04:08:22 PM »
Brushed over the class fluff--mainly removing that half-elf business that spellshape champions had going on--and set up the classes portal.
“Hast thou not felt in forest gloom, as gloaming falls on dark-some dells, when comes a whisper, hum and hiss; savage growling sounds a-near, dazzling flashes around thee flicker, whirring waxes and fills thine ears: has thou not felt then grisly horrors that grip thee and hold thee?”

Offline DonQuixote

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Re: Discussion and Suggestion Thread
« Reply #639 on: September 25, 2012, 01:50:51 PM »
Okay, we have chapter portals for everything before the actual Rules of Spellshaping chapter, which is the first one I haven't finished revising.  Huzzah!




Edit: As a part of avoiding revising the rules, I have gone through and enumerated the formulae that I feel need work.  There are currently 32 formulae that I'm planning to flat-out remove, seven of which may be reconsidered and just heavily altered.

A lot of this pruning is working off of two basic principles.  First, I'm going to try to remove all effects that render a creature helpless.  Secondly, I'm going to detach certain effects from spellshape attacks.  Wildfire, for example, is a formula that actually kind of makes more sense if you just conjure the damn fire.

I'm also going to be cleaning up relics from before certain circles were written.  Brilliant Dawn has two illusion effects from before Fleeting Image, while Shocking Current has some sonic effects that predate Screeching Roc.

Finally, I'm hoping to tighten up the thematic connections between a circle's formulae.  I'm looking at Glimmering Moon here--though it's not the only offender.



In addition, I've been looking at the prestige classes with an equally censorious eye.  I'm seriously considering dropping Archmage of the Tower Conclave and Catechumen.  While it is traditional to let spellcasting mix with everything, I don't feel that these classes are particularly valuable.  I'm similarly thinking of dropping Spiritspeaker Adept, Unseen Master, Wildheart Mage, and Woodspeaker, since they don't really seem like concepts that I've successfully managed to flesh out properly.  I'm also planning to write new prestige classes, so don't panic over the removals.
« Last Edit: September 26, 2012, 04:07:50 PM by DonQuixote »
“Hast thou not felt in forest gloom, as gloaming falls on dark-some dells, when comes a whisper, hum and hiss; savage growling sounds a-near, dazzling flashes around thee flicker, whirring waxes and fills thine ears: has thou not felt then grisly horrors that grip thee and hold thee?”