Author Topic: Discussion and Suggestion Thread  (Read 224200 times)

Offline Garryl

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Re: Discussion and Suggestion Thread
« Reply #840 on: September 03, 2013, 04:58:12 PM »
Speaking of Stoichen heritage feats, Salamander Heritage should be toned down somewhat. You've got 2-4 feats worth of stuff in there.
- +1d6 fire damage/attack
- A high damage (2d6+1d6) natural attack with reach.
- Improved Grab and Constrict.

Offline DonQuixote

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Re: Discussion and Suggestion Thread
« Reply #841 on: September 03, 2013, 05:50:47 PM »
Speaking of Stoichen heritage feats, Salamander Heritage should be toned down somewhat. You've got 2-4 feats worth of stuff in there.
- +1d6 fire damage/attack
- A high damage (2d6+1d6) natural attack with reach.
- Improved Grab and Constrict.

Well, the current plan is to flat-out replace it, so I'll bear that in mind!

I was thinking a single feat that provided different bonuses to different elemental bloods:
  • Airblooded: +1 dodge bonus to AC, glide
  • Earthblooded: +1 hit point per hit die, ???
  • Fireblooded: +10 feet to base land speed, heat
  • Waterblooded: +1 on attack rolls, ???

But I haven't figured out the "???" items, or if this is even balanced. It's just been floating around in my head for a day or so.
“Hast thou not felt in forest gloom, as gloaming falls on dark-some dells, when comes a whisper, hum and hiss; savage growling sounds a-near, dazzling flashes around thee flicker, whirring waxes and fills thine ears: has thou not felt then grisly horrors that grip thee and hold thee?”

Offline Epsilon Rose

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Re: Discussion and Suggestion Thread
« Reply #842 on: September 05, 2013, 03:04:24 AM »
Living spellshape is going to be replaced with some manner of fairy ripoff. Probably Small, rather than Tiny, since it'll be an Int-boosting race.

Aww. Is there any chance I could convince you to leave them in? I had quite some fun using them to create a pc god of potential/time a while back and it's not often you get to play as an ooze.

Offline chaos_redefined

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Re: Discussion and Suggestion Thread
« Reply #843 on: September 05, 2013, 06:47:30 PM »
So, my DM is finding the damage I'm spitting out a bit high.  I just hit 9th level, which is a +3d6 bonus to my formulae (+2d6 from heighten, +1d6 from the spellshapes), and I'm wondering if heighten should give +1d6 damage per level, rather than +2d6. 

Offline chaos_redefined

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Re: Discussion and Suggestion Thread
« Reply #844 on: September 12, 2013, 12:25:30 AM »
So, my DM is finding the damage I'm spitting out a bit high.  I just hit 9th level, which is a +3d6 bonus to my formulae (+2d6 from heighten, +1d6 from the spellshapes), and I'm wondering if heighten should give +1d6 damage per level, rather than +2d6.

Anyone have any thoughts on this?

Offline Garryl

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Re: Discussion and Suggestion Thread
« Reply #845 on: September 12, 2013, 01:04:43 AM »
What's the actual damage you're doing, in total? It's very hard to get a picture of what's being objected to when you're only telling us a fraction of the story.

Heighten only adds +2d6/level below your max, but major formulae normally add about +2d6/formula level anyways, so it mostly just keeps you up to par when you use lower level formulae.

Offline DonQuixote

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Re: Discussion and Suggestion Thread
« Reply #846 on: September 12, 2013, 10:28:45 AM »
Living spellshape is going to be replaced with some manner of fairy ripoff. Probably Small, rather than Tiny, since it'll be an Int-boosting race.

Aww. Is there any chance I could convince you to leave them in? I had quite some fun using them to create a pc god of potential/time a while back and it's not often you get to play as an ooze.

It's not like I'm moving quickly or anything. Besides, even if I do end up removing them from the PDF, I won't delete the thread. They might survive into the Appendix or something, but I realized that I really want more cohesive spellshaping races. Right now, they feel a bit too hodgepodge-y.

So, my DM is finding the damage I'm spitting out a bit high.  I just hit 9th level, which is a +3d6 bonus to my formulae (+2d6 from heighten, +1d6 from the spellshapes), and I'm wondering if heighten should give +1d6 damage per level, rather than +2d6.

Spells tend to scale +1d6 per caster level, and you get a new formula level every two shaper levels, so I figured +2d6 was analogous.

I'm going to echo Garryl's call for actual numbers here, for the same reason.



So, my hopes of getting back down to the grindstone on this have obviously yielded little fruit. It's still my number-one priority for homebrewing, so I'm not going to move onto other projects until it's done. However, I don't have as much free time as I'd like, and the system is functional enough that I don't feel like I'm shafting anything too hard if I take things a little more slowly while I look for a job.
“Hast thou not felt in forest gloom, as gloaming falls on dark-some dells, when comes a whisper, hum and hiss; savage growling sounds a-near, dazzling flashes around thee flicker, whirring waxes and fills thine ears: has thou not felt then grisly horrors that grip thee and hold thee?”

Offline Nanshork

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Re: Discussion and Suggestion Thread
« Reply #847 on: September 12, 2013, 11:01:56 AM »
Job > Spellshaping.  If you have no food or place to live or internet you won't be able to homebrew anyway. :p

Offline chaos_redefined

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Re: Discussion and Suggestion Thread
« Reply #848 on: September 12, 2013, 06:10:27 PM »
9th level Chronarch Savant with Heighten Formulae and Spellshape Focus

With no modification, Torpor (a second level formula) does 6d6 (base 3, focus +1, torpor +2).   Add in Heighten for another 6d6, totalling 12d6.  Finally, add on Savant's Knowledge (Foe), for +2d6 (typically), we have a total of 14d6.  Tack on a will save that makes most melee brutes lose, just for fun.

Hammering Force and Counterforce look pretty similar, each doing a total of 12d4 + 2d6.  The bonus effects aren't as impressive here (although Counterforce still hurts).

Recursive Blast does 13d6 damage total, and has a save-or-suck that lasts a round and can get some extra damage from attacks of oppurtunities.

Temporal Displacement does 11d6.

The DM has stated that one of these on their own wouldn't be a problem, but the ease with which I can repeat them, and the sheer quantity, is.  Removing Savant's Knowledge and Spellshape Focus knocks it down to somewhere between 8d6 and 11d6. 

Essentially, due to the length of time that combat lasts, I have an almost-at-will that deals more damage than a wizard's Orb of Fire at the same level.

Offline chaos_redefined

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Re: Discussion and Suggestion Thread
« Reply #849 on: September 18, 2013, 07:29:55 PM »
Was there any other info needed?

Offline DonQuixote

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Re: Discussion and Suggestion Thread
« Reply #850 on: September 24, 2013, 08:20:24 PM »
Heighten may be the problem. Try knocking it down to 1d6 per level raised in your games and ask the DM if that's helping.

If it is, I'll go ahead and canonize it. If it isn't, let's poke around and see what other problems might be on the table.

Other possibilities involve dropping Savant's Knowledge to +X rather than +Xd6.
« Last Edit: September 24, 2013, 08:22:29 PM by DonQuixote »
“Hast thou not felt in forest gloom, as gloaming falls on dark-some dells, when comes a whisper, hum and hiss; savage growling sounds a-near, dazzling flashes around thee flicker, whirring waxes and fills thine ears: has thou not felt then grisly horrors that grip thee and hold thee?”

Offline DonQuixote

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Re: Discussion and Suggestion Thread
« Reply #851 on: September 24, 2013, 09:59:03 PM »
Okay, I finally managed to dredge up the energy to tackle replacing the "____ Heritage" stoichen feats. I've combined them into a single feat that gives a minor numerical increase coupled with a movement adjustment.

Thoughts? I haven't really bothered to write the description or introduction fully--those are just placeholders.

Quote
Stoichen Highblood [Racial]
You have manifested a particularly potent connection to your elemental bloodline.
   Prerequisites: Stoichen
   Benefit: You gain one of the following sets of benefits, depending on your elemental blood.
   Airblooded: You receive a +1 dodge bonus to AC. In addition, your connection to the air allows you to glide, negating damage from a fall from any height and allowing 20 feet of forward travel for every 5 feet of descent.  You glide at a speed of 30 feet with average maneuverability.  Even if your maneuverability improves, you can't hover while gliding.  You can't glide while carrying a medium or heavy load.
   If you become unconscious or helpless while in midair, you instinctively begin to glide.  You descend in a tight corkscrew and take only 1d6 points of falling damage. no matter what the actual distance of the fall.
   Earthblooded: You gain a Climb speed equal to your base land speed. In addition, you gain a number of hit points equal to your current Hit Dice. Each time you gain a Hit Die (such as by gaining a level), you gain 1 additional hit point. If you lose a Hit Die (such as by losing a level), you lose 1 hit point permanently.
   Fireblooded: Your base land speed increases by 10 feet. This benefit stacks with all other speed increases. In addition, unlike most fireblooded stoichen, the flames that flicker from your body are hot to the touch. Your mere touch deals an additional 1d6 points of fire damage, and any metallic weapons you wield also conduct this heat. Dousing or kindling your flames suppresses or resumes this effect.
   Waterblooded: You gain a +1 racial bonus on attack rolls. In addition, when moving through difficult terrain, your movement speed is doubled, rather than halved, and you can charge or run normally.
“Hast thou not felt in forest gloom, as gloaming falls on dark-some dells, when comes a whisper, hum and hiss; savage growling sounds a-near, dazzling flashes around thee flicker, whirring waxes and fills thine ears: has thou not felt then grisly horrors that grip thee and hold thee?”

Offline Garryl

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Re: Discussion and Suggestion Thread
« Reply #852 on: September 24, 2013, 11:28:33 PM »
Airblooded is begging for one or two more feats to improve the gliding to proper flight like the Raptoran racial flight and the Dragon Wings feat chain.

Earthblooded could be simplified to "Any changes to the number of Hit Dice you possess commensurately changes the number of additional hit points granted." I know you just took the wording from Improved Toughness, but that wording still irks me slightly. You may also wish to note that the climb speed grants, in and of itself, a +8 racial bonus of Climb checks and the ability to take 10.

My gut says to drop the fire damage from Fireblooded to 1d4 or less. In addition to the fact that it's reactive as well as proactive as enemies take the damage, too, when they directly touch you (such as by hitting you with unarmed or natural attacks), it's also 3.5x the similar attack and AC bonuses (compare to Power Attack or Weapon Focus vs. Weapon Specialization all giving damage bonuses at 2x the quantity of attack bonuses). Further, the boost to your base land speed is probably the most reliably useful of the four movement boosts, improving the movement mode you most often use and boosting all other base land speed-based movement speeds, such as swimming, climbing, and the flight granted by most templates with wings.

Just to nitpick, but your speed isn't halved in difficult terrain, it's just that each square counts as 2 squares. I'm also surprised that you're getting the ability to better move through difficult terrain instead of a swim speed with Waterblooded. That breaks with the patters the other three bloodlines have, giving you an improved version of some sort of basic movement associated with that element. Falling, climbing, walking... shouldn't water be swimming? Or is swimming just overdone? In any case, moving at double speed just feels out of place. Ignoring the speed reduction is fine and in keeping with the flavor of water's fluidity, although it's probably a tiny bit narrow.

Offline Amechra

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Re: Discussion and Suggestion Thread
« Reply #853 on: September 25, 2013, 12:17:15 AM »
Now I want to make a... something that lets you change your elemental heritage.
"There is happiness for those who accept their fate, there is glory for those that defy it."

"Now that everyone's so happy, this is probably a good time to tell you I ate your parents."

Offline DonQuixote

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Re: Discussion and Suggestion Thread
« Reply #854 on: September 25, 2013, 02:30:11 AM »
Airblooded is begging for one or two more feats to improve the gliding to proper flight like the Raptoran racial flight and the Dragon Wings feat chain.

Maybe. We'll see if I want to do something similar for the other bloods--and I might. Earthblooded could easily walk straight up cliff faces, and so on.

Earthblooded could be simplified to "Any changes to the number of Hit Dice you possess commensurately changes the number of additional hit points granted." I know you just took the wording from Improved Toughness, but that wording still irks me slightly. You may also wish to note that the climb speed grants, in and of itself, a +8 racial bonus of Climb checks and the ability to take 10.

Good notes. I'll bear those in mind when finishing the templating.

My gut says to drop the fire damage from Fireblooded to 1d4 or less. In addition to the fact that it's reactive as well as proactive as enemies take the damage, too, when they directly touch you (such as by hitting you with unarmed or natural attacks), it's also 3.5x the similar attack and AC bonuses (compare to Power Attack or Weapon Focus vs. Weapon Specialization all giving damage bonuses at 2x the quantity of attack bonuses). Further, the boost to your base land speed is probably the most reliably useful of the four movement boosts, improving the movement mode you most often use and boosting all other base land speed-based movement speeds, such as swimming, climbing, and the flight granted by most templates with wings.

Probably wise. I just want the fact that you're on fire to, you know, be capable of causing damage. I'll go ahead and drop it down to 1d3 in the templating pass.

Just to nitpick, but your speed isn't halved in difficult terrain, it's just that each square counts as 2 squares. I'm also surprised that you're getting the ability to better move through difficult terrain instead of a swim speed with Waterblooded. That breaks with the patters the other three bloodlines have, giving you an improved version of some sort of basic movement associated with that element. Falling, climbing, walking... shouldn't water be swimming? Or is swimming just overdone? In any case, moving at double speed just feels out of place. Ignoring the speed reduction is fine and in keeping with the flavor of water's fluidity, although it's probably a tiny bit narrow.

You're right, I would need to re-template that to ignoring the effects of difficult terrain and moving at twice speed while in difficult terrain.

As to why not a swim speed...they already get one baseline! I suppose I could just give them a speed increase, but that felt a little like cheating.

Edit: Mind you, I'm not horribly wedded to the idea, so, if anyone has a better one, let's hear it. It wasn't actually originally planned to be a new movement mode for each blood, it just panned out that way. In fact, fireblooded's +10 foot speed thing lines up with the increases to AC, hit points, and so on in the original draft.



Now I want to make a... something that lets you change your elemental heritage.

Well, with the refluffing that occurred, that's basically analogous to changing race, so...anything that could do that would reasonably be able to change your blood.
« Last Edit: September 25, 2013, 07:05:39 PM by DonQuixote »
“Hast thou not felt in forest gloom, as gloaming falls on dark-some dells, when comes a whisper, hum and hiss; savage growling sounds a-near, dazzling flashes around thee flicker, whirring waxes and fills thine ears: has thou not felt then grisly horrors that grip thee and hold thee?”

Offline samnemath

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Re: Discussion and Suggestion Thread
« Reply #855 on: November 30, 2013, 11:36:10 AM »
Hi, it has been a long time since I checked on this.

Can I ask what is the state of the project?

Are there parts that are complete?

Offline Amechra

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Re: Discussion and Suggestion Thread
« Reply #856 on: December 02, 2013, 09:41:07 AM »
There are two sourcebooks that are at the "complete" stage, or, well, at least as complete as homebrew can get.

I think.
"There is happiness for those who accept their fate, there is glory for those that defy it."

"Now that everyone's so happy, this is probably a good time to tell you I ate your parents."

Offline Nanshork

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Re: Discussion and Suggestion Thread
« Reply #857 on: December 02, 2013, 04:51:46 PM »
There are two sourcebooks that are at the "complete" stage, or, well, at least as complete as homebrew can get.

I think.

Except he was in the middle of overhauling everything in the last update he gave us.  :p

Offline DonQuixote

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Re: Discussion and Suggestion Thread
« Reply #858 on: December 02, 2013, 06:56:10 PM »
Yeah, I've had an unproductive few months--compounded by the fact that I've been working on a paladin rewrite for a currently-ongoing campaign. Hopefully, I'm going to finish the Disciple-level prayers for the Law and Evil Testaments this week, maybe get the catechisms done, and then I'm going to try to slide back into working on spellshaping.

What has currently been revised:
  • The "core" base classes
  • All races other than Cambian and Living Spellshape
  • Most feats
  • Alternative class features
  • Racial substitution levels for all races other than Living Spellshape
  • All circles other than Brilliant Dawn, Glimmering Moon, Deteriorating Corrosion, Blustering Gale, Unseen Impetus, and Shocking Current

Mind you, things that haven't been revised are still functional. I know that I need to replace the Stoichen racial feats, and I think there were some metashaping feats to do? Cambians were going to be made into fey, and Living Spellshapes were going to be replaced with a Small, winged fey race.

I might end up working on prestige classes a bit before getting back to work on circles, since those are easier. I'd prefer not to, but--if I have trouble motivating myself--it might be the best way to make headway.
“Hast thou not felt in forest gloom, as gloaming falls on dark-some dells, when comes a whisper, hum and hiss; savage growling sounds a-near, dazzling flashes around thee flicker, whirring waxes and fills thine ears: has thou not felt then grisly horrors that grip thee and hold thee?”

Offline samnemath

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Re: Discussion and Suggestion Thread
« Reply #859 on: December 03, 2013, 05:28:28 AM »
Yes I understand. It has just been a while since I checked on this. I am preparing a campaign where I might use it and wanted to know what parts are revised.

Your paladin also sounds interesting. Is he posted somewhere?